Kenne-bell told me they would'nt sell it, so I'll make one myself.

chicken said:
any updates mike........
Click to expand...
I think it has come down to cost, but I haven't heard from Mike so that is just a guess.
Machine time adds up fast.
Most shops charge $100 to $150 per hour for machine time on a cnc mill.
Add in cad time to make a program, time to fixture. Tooling cost and the costs sky rocket.

Roadboss said:
To my knowledge "C" heads flow every bit as good as the "B" sets. The reason most will swap out to them is due to more choices of manifolds.
Click to expand...

The reason for this thread....a manifold minus the head swap.
If one was a little better, you would never know after the Eaton was on
or a nice KB.....;)
 
If this ever gets off the ground I'm incredibly interested in one as well. I have a few mustang friends that would sell me their stock m112 for peanuts. I'm not looking to go nuts, maybe 6psi with meth.
 
I was just thinking about this today. Why wouldn't you just fab up the pieces and tig weld the thing together? Even if you wanted to mass produce, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper?
 
In theroy that would be a better way to do it. But the design does'nt lend itself very well to fabrication. The injector boss/port alignment is too critical to risk messing up by welding it all together.


After dealing with various machine shops and getting pricing, I am dropping this whole B-headed thing. We are looking at around 1100 for machine time alone in addition to the material costs.


I have to replace the 94's engine anyway so I am going to a C-headed cobra takeout unit. This will allow me to run the 03-04 cobra lower intake/intercooler, and I can still use the eaton with a shortened snout.


Sorry guys, I tried.


Mike
 
94m5 said:
In theroy that would be a better way to do it. But the design does'nt lend itself very well to fabrication. The injector boss/port alignment is too critical to risk messing up by welding it all together.


After dealing with various machine shops and getting pricing, I am dropping this whole B-headed thing. We are looking at around 1100 for machine time alone in addition to the material costs.


I have to replace the 94's engine anyway so I am going to a C-headed cobra takeout unit. This will allow me to run the 03-04 cobra lower intake/intercooler, and I can still use the eaton with a shortened snout.


Sorry guys, I tried.


Mike
Click to expand...

Mike: I have a friend/customer that owns a cnc. If you would like I can talk with him and try and work out a cost affective solution. He's already told me he will CNC stuff for me for next to nothing....
 
Mike,

This is your project.

Put up a poll on what people would be willing to spend.
Give them at least 4 price points.

Anybody SERIOUSLY INTERESTED (no posers please) should reply and vote in the poll and then post in the thread so we can see how many potential customers.

I'll set up a separate sticky in Mark VIII Performance for this and I'll copy this thread over there too.

I need some of you fellow LvCer's to reach out to guys on the other 2 Lincoln Boards and a couple of the Stang Boards that have 'B' headed sections.
Copy the link to the poll thread and let's see how many potential customers there are. That will determine what production method will be used which will determine the price in the end.
 
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MonsterMark said:
Mike,

This is your project.

Put up a poll on what people would be willing to spend.
Give them at least 4 price points.

Anybody SERIOUSLY INTERESTED (no posers please) should reply and vote in the poll and then post in the thread so we can see how many potential customers.

I'll set up a separate sticky in Mark VIII Performance for this and I'll copy this thread over there too.

I need some of you fellow LvCer's to reach out to guys on the other 2 Lincoln Boards and a couple of the Stang Boards that have 'B' headed sections.
Copy the link to the poll thread and let's see how many potential customers there are. That will determine what production method will be used which will determine the price in the end.
Click to expand...

He has posted what it costs to machine this out of solid.
A grand...... thats at about 50 bucks an hour machine rate.
I honestly don't think you will find a cnc machine rate cheaper than that.
That is less then most shops charge to fix your car.
Not including tooling costs.
Not including cad time.
Not including fixturing costs.

There are other issues.
The upper could warp when machining, its thin as hell.

I doubt any shop will do one for less.

Sand casting,then machining is a option.
I have no idea what a casting would cost.
 
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Wow, good idea. Casting would be easy, after you have one! Cut it in half from side to side and it wouldn't even be that large of a cast. Machine where the injectors, blower and heads go and it would probably be at around half the CNC price.
 
Looks like there's alot of interest for this product from the mustang guys, with the exception they could run the intercooler. Which I didn't even pay attention, I thought we would be able to..

Finding a cheaper way to make these could pay off pretty decent Mike.
 
I have a company that does computer rendering and can produce an actual piece that could be used for moldeling or casting. If your interested let me know. At least you'd have an actual piece to work with. You could even run it on the engine for testing also.
 
Mike,
I have alot to say, so please listen. You have come a long way with this, DON'T stop here. Apparently you've got the means, the know how, and the aggressiveness to make this happen. The original post was great. Thank you.

What I am about to send off for machining is a custom intake manifold to adapt an Eaton M112 to a B-head intake pattern. Where the Kenne-Bell setup retains the IMRC's, this replaces the whole damned thing. I'll have to modify the snout of the S/C to line up with the VIII belt system, but that's a small issue. I have already converted my VIII to an 8-rib belt system (courtesy of my 99 V10 F250), and hope that with a double tensioner I'll have no slippage issues.

It'll be run on my 150K mile long block at around 9-10 PSI, with methanol keeping it cool under boost. The nice thing about using the Eaton bolt pattern, is upgradability to whipple later on down the road.

This :q:q:q:q is awesome, truly great things have come forward here. Do you know what you almost helped us make? Our own Supermark...........
................

[A short history, or a love affair it could be called]

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=2985&highlight=supermark



That is the most awesome car ever made. Why some would ask? [Usually LS guy's lol]. Because it's one bad ass daily driver [if you're one of us]. My daily is always a work in progress. More because I love the damn thing, then the fact it's VERY dependable.[It was made in 95 for godsakes it ain't brand new]. Point is this car is my world when my world is distraught. It makes me focus on things when I have to think on it.

Sorry for the rant, I just hate to see this end now. Like this... Due to pressure, supply and demand, and FUNDS.

The thought of having a daily driver that can smoke any Bird on the road [minus that one ws-6]. That :q:q:q:q has been my smoke and mirror for 3 years now [jacked up ain't it?].

A car that was 40,000 to begin with, made into mine has become a reality. One of the best blocks ever made is now mine. I have the most reliable, high horse, low end, gear grunt'in, slush box havin car my wife [who could outdrive half you] can drive car. IT'S awesome.

Don't let this end here. I would give atleast 2750 tomorrow to even have this kit [the way it was in the origonal post]. I'll probably have to make some mods but oh well. You're original idea was IT. Don't fail us budget build guys now. Please?

Sorry for the rant
just a Mark 8 guy
That's followin this
CLOSELY
1BAD4.6L



Look at previous post to see my addiction. And read carefully.
 
Hey there,

I feel I know Mike quite well. I know he put a lot of effort into this and I'm sure he doesn't WANT to just give up. The costs and the TIME involved in doing this are more than he can take on right now and there is no guarantee this is going to be a pot of gold.
 
brentalan said:
Hey there,

I feel I know Mike quite well. I know he put a lot of effort into this and I'm sure he doesn't WANT to just give up. The costs and the TIME involved in doing this are more than he can take on right now and there is no guarantee this is going to be a pot of gold.
Click to expand...

From reading the previous responses I feel there are several members on this board (including myself) that would either take over from where he is now, OR help him get to a final prototype
 
Blkdvll said:
From reading the previous responses I feel there are several members on this board (including myself) that would either take over from where he is now, OR help him get to a final prototype
Click to expand...

$50 bucks for his CAD and the first manifold free, then 1/2 and 1/2 on anything over cost.

It's a done deal if he wants to do it. Free manifold and half the profits.

Call it the 'SharkTank' or whatever. :rolleyes:

I'm a little P'O'd this thing isn't moving forward.

It's done. Just do it.
 
Just a brain fart on my end, but why doesn't Geno buy a "C" head Tuners kit from KB take the manifold and re-shape the ports for "B" heads?
 
because 40 people will say "yes, I'll buy one".

then when they are built, 98% of them evaporate
 
It was just a thought as to how to possibly get to the point of having a prototype manifold for casting and or supplying adapter plates for the "B" heads to accept the 'C" head manifolds. He could then sell the kit he bought. Again, I also understand that there is a lot of "bench building" of science projects that takes place here, but having been around the machining business for a loooong time, wanted to atleast participate to some degree.
 
Tommy, I hear ya. But I think the mustang guys would be the main market. Those guys are paying for C heads often enough it could definately pay off, whether mark viii guys jumped in right away or not. Once a manifold was available I think it'd sail. Not a bad idea Roadboss. Geno wouldn't necessarily have to be the one to jump on it either. By slim chance I may be able to do this, see how these bezels go first, then maybe see about using the foundry at the same facility.
 
Well if they are cheap enough I would buy one. I wont spend a grand on one but I would spen several hundred.
 
Would the 500 range sound feasable? Anybody?

Just re-read your post Roadboss, couldn't make adapter plates, that's not possible, every single intake would need worked to compensate for the adapter plates. Your previous post is where it's at.. taking a C head manifold and modifying it for a B head, then reproducing it. Air flow isn't so important when you're raising atmospheric pressure to 8 psi.

If I couldn't produce them cheap I wouldn't even do it. I would think 500 would be a safe guesstimate. Key word guesstimate.. I would be scrounging for used intakes heads and pistons to melt down, and who knows with that. Maybe alot of mark viii LCA's LOL
 
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