how would you invest 5k for more hp?

BuddyL

BuddyL

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hello everyone man its been awhile. I have been saving for awhile for upgrades and such for my 95 but never had the time to do anything with it. Well now i have the time cause i just got laid off for the first time in 5 years and they say they wont need me till jan of next year.

So....I have alittle over 5k ready to drop in my 95 that has 100k on it.
It is bone stock except the cat back 2.5" dual exhaust i had put in it.
I have to pay someone to do the work unless i have my uncle help me and he has NO modular experience only lots of push rod exp.
Now he tells me that with my 100k block just doing top end upgrades is useless and a waste of money because i will only tear something up on the lower end. Is this true?
My question is if you guys were in my shoes and had 5 k to do a build what would you do?
I know i want to buy a set of headers and make the exhaust complete.
I also know I am going to either buy or build 1 of those high rise cobra hoods for it.
outside from that what would ya'll do? everything else is stock. no maf,stock gears,stock tranny and stall.
thanks in advance and its great to back in the forums.I have alot of reading to do. ~buddy
 
Buddy, here is what you probably do not want to hear:

You just got laid off.
You drive a 15 year old car with 100k miles on it.
You are not comfortable enough working on the car yourself, so anything done to it is going to cost at least double once labor is factored in.
You have $5k hanging in the balance.

Take the money, shove it in the bank, and do as much maintenance as the car needs to stay running for another 100k miles. That cash is something you will desperately need.
 
JoshMcMadMac said:
Buddy, here is what you probably do not want to hear:

You just got laid off.
You drive a 15 year old car with 100k miles on it.
You are not comfortable enough working on the car yourself, so anything done to it is going to cost at least double once labor is factored in.
You have $5k hanging in the balance.

Take the money, shove it in the bank, and do as much maintenance as the car needs to stay running for another 100k miles. That cash is something you will desperately need.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said that better myself. Keep that money put back for something that's really needed and just when you put it all into that car, chances are, something will go wrong with the car. It's your money, do as you please with it.
 
actually i am totally fine financialy. I have a good amount in my savings and i am getting 110.00 a day laid off. the 5k i have for the mark is a seperate account i have been putting cash in for a year now.and my wife is a cardio rn and makes really well. Im not in bad shape. I have 5 k for the mark not i only have 5k to my name. with that said how about a answer to how you would spend it or what you would buy to try to get 400hp or better.
 
You can buy my nitrous kit in the for sale section...be another 100hp on tap. :D

For the cash, I would do a 255 fuel pump, 4.10 gears, j-mod, and a C head motor. Then depending on what is left over, either nitrous, or if funds are available, would do a supercharger.

Of course this is after all regular maintenance is done, and rebuild the suspension.
 
yeah i know i need to get the front end rebuilt also and if need be i can go over the 5k alittle.any idea how much upper and lower control arms and such will run me? I really dont want nos and if i dont need it i wasnt thinking about a supercharger at all.I am trying to figure out what to buy outside a nos or supercharger kit. would i be better off spending alittle more and just buy a turn key crate motor? or can I achieve 400-450hp with the 100k motor i got now and spend less? I am just looking to spend the entire 5k in hp and drivetrain improvements alone. I will buy the headers and suspension stuff after the fact and will spend alittle more. Looking for the most gravy way of doing this without having a bunch of headaches. I dont know much about this stuff and am hoping you guys here at lvc can help me spend the money for the right stuff since I know ya'll know the most about these cars.I can have my uncle do most of the work which wont cost me much of anything as long as it dont get to crazy with the electronics and such.He has 30 years of building non modular engines but has never built 1 modular engine and frankly this is one of his quotes " bud a engine is a engine,as long as you dont do anything to crazy that will affect the electronics of it I can help you". Now would you guys in my case have my uncle help you to save alot of money or would you pay someone to do it for you? He also said "its a waste of money and time to build up the top end and not touch the lower cause your 4.6 allready has 100k on it" is this true? if i build up the top end from the heads up will my block,pistons,rings, not hold up? I am not shooting for 600 horse just trying to get 400-450. Any advice on how to proceed will be nice.
 
Modular's are a whole different animal. Trying to make 400-450hp without a power adder is going to be really expensive. Your budget will be gone before you even have the engine halfway complete. Unless you are completely anti-power adder, it is the only cost effective way to hit your goal.

Suspension rebuild should be at the top of your list. What is the point going fast, when the car handles like ass, and sloppy.
 
I'd let your uncle do it because an engine is an engine. Sure there are complete differences, but someone that has knowledge how to work on engine should have no problem working on these motors with a shop manual handy.

You want 400-450hp na...I'm assuming flywheel? Forge the bottom end, C heads ported with stage II cams, Steeda timing adjuster with Steeda underdrive pulleys, new injectors, 255lph fuel pump. Then I would get a 98 tranny have it rebuilt completely, Jmod it, then add a 3800 stall.

From there add kooks headers, 3.5" exhaust and a dyno tune...you'll be right where you want.
 
ripped so you say the lower end is a priority? and just a guesstament around how much would all that run me? also Is there a company that will have most of this stuff or do I go through mutiple places? would love to put together a plan and purchase thats as easy as i can get it. also with doing alot of the stuff ripped spoke of will this throw off my ecm or electronis and or what may i have to do with that?
 
Just let ripped work on it. I hear he's awesome with these cars. dead on.
 
im not completly anti power adder i just dont want to tear anything up and start over. I will have the front end rebuilt also but thats outside the 5k range i am wanting to spend on engine and drive train. I have found a few places that will sell me a remanufactured engine and here is the email that was sent to me from one of them..............................

We offer a premium long block (P/N fo4.6lba) for $2495.00 plus a $500.00 deposit on core return. One way freight is $250.00.

This engine features all new internal parts, pistons, piston rings, cam bearings, main and rod bearings, timing set, freeze plugs, rear main seal, oil gallery plugs, lifters, camshaft (in some cases a remanufactured cam is installed) complete gasket set, oil pump and valvetrain installed. The heads are surfaced, new guides and seals installed, and are finished with 3 angle valve seats. Crankshafts are reground and micropolished to factory specs. The motor is pretested for compression, oil pressure and oil flow before leaving the factory.

All Precision extra long blocks include a 36 month/36,000 mile "Limited Warranty." For details please check our homepage.

Thank you for your interest,

Rick Slataper
Sales & Support
PrecisionEngine.com
800 275 7371



now would i be better off doing something like this and adding more high performance stuff to it or just pull and rebuild what i got? I would like to show the car when its finished and drive it (outside the winter months) when i can. thanks again.
 
I would pay ripped or anyone hear to build something for me as long as they know what they are doing and I dont get screwed and its affordable.I would even help if needed.I would rather make a new friend in the process and know what I am getting will run good and hold rather just pitch my money away and have it fall apart. I know 100% for sure my unc is very good with building non modular engines and he wouldnt cost me a thing. He just sounds nervous to me about this one and i think its because of the electronics part of it all and never have worked on a modular before.It would also make it easier for me because his place is where I am doing the body and paint work.
 
It isnt the electronics that make it complicated...it's getting the engine timed right. Pretty tricky when dealing with 4 cams. Hell there are some members here who have done damn near everything, but wont screw with the timing of one.

Edit: It isnt impossible, just have to be precise.
 
There are techs at Ford Dealerships that won't mess with the timing on a 4valve...
I deffinatly say start with forged internals, then heads, intake...I would get C heads and have them p/p'ed

you want "HP", speeding up the ammount of air that flows thru the motor creates this...so
 
Food for thought

What horsepower means is this: In Watt's judgement, one horse can do 33,000 foot-pounds of work every minute. So, imagine a horse raising coal out of a coal mine as shown above. A horse exerting 1 horsepower can raise 330 pounds of coal 100 feet in a minute, or 33 pounds of coal 1,000 feet in one minute, or 1,000 pounds 33 feet in one minute. You can make up whatever combination of feet and pounds you like. As long as the product is 33,000 foot-pounds in one minute, you have a horsepower.
Y ou can probably imagine that you would not want to load 33,000 pounds of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to move it 1 foot in a minute because the horse couldn't budge that big a load. You can probably also imagine that you would not want to put 1 pound of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to run 33,000 feet in one minute, since that translates into 375 miles per hour and horses can't run that fast. However, if you have read How a Block and Tackle Works, you know that with a block and tackle you can easily trade perceived weight for distance using an arrangement of pulleys. So you could create a block and tackle system that puts a comfortable amount of weight on the horse at a comfortable speed no matter how much weight is actually in the bucket.
Horsepower can be converted into other units as well. For example:
1 horsepower is equivalent to 746 watts. So if you took a 1-horsepower horse and put it on a treadmill, it could operate a generator producing a continuous 746 watts.
1 horsepower (over the course of an hour) is equivalent to 2,545 BTU (British thermal units). If you took that 746 watts and ran it through an electric heater for an hour, it would produce 2,545 BTU (where a BTU is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 pound of water 1 degree F).
One BTU is equal to 1,055 joules, or 252 gram-calories or 0.252 food Calories. Presumably, a horse producing 1 horsepower would burn 641 Calories in one hour if it were 100-percent efficient.
 
Sorry Buddy, now that I see the money is right for the most part, expect to go beyond the $5,000 limit just a bit. Bottom end forged with C heads and a supercharger is the way I would go and no, ripped wouldn't be the one to let build it. :p sorry RC.

Buddy, you might want to snag an engine from the bone yard and build it the way "you" want it and let the uncle do it for you at his own pace. I say this because his labor is free, he has experience and you can continue to drive the car until everything has been bought and ready to install. See if you can find a 98-99 trans and do the J-Mod to it, which is very easy to do and go with the stall of your choice. The electrical internals from your current trans will need to be placed into the 98+ trans, including the wiring harness. If and when you get that far, shoot me a PM and I'll email exactly what you need, to do that step by step.

Free labor is going to save you tons and if you can go without the car for a while, then use what you have but be prepared for the car to be setting up a while because it's not going to be done for quite some time. Get your gears, one piece drive shaft, which came in the 93 model or go aftermarket on the shaft, 255 fuel pump, suspension reworked, ect...

You're looking at some serious cash if you want it done right so be prepared to go over the limit you have saved back for this. all the little forgotten odd and end things needed will add up very quickly. Just another reason I suggest letting the uncle do it for you. When it comes time to set the timing, that's when you might want to pull him off of it and let someone else do that and pay them. I'm sure (laser) will be pop in this thread to explain why you want to go forged and a few others have already mentioned it and more will. Good luck with the build and if possible, try to get us some pictures and get yourself a progress thread started when you do get it going. We would all be interested to see how it goes from start to finish.

Again, sorry about advising on how to manage money in my first response but you wouldn't believe how many dumb ass people come on here and want to blow their last dime on these cars just to find out that they will only get half way through and then their car ends up just setting and setting and setting. It sounds like the financial department has you backed pretty good so I would say go for it. No matter what, don't rush it!
 
awesome awesome awesome.....finally a serious and informative response. thank you nolimit95. What I am wondering now is by the time I do the forged bottom end and everything else you mentioned would i be better off just buying a alluminator or possibly another 4.6 new crate engine for a mustang and putting it in? If i bought brand new I wouldnt mind spending up to 9 to 10k on it but after i took care of the suspension and all the other odds and ends man i will have some money racked up in this thing.
1. I love the car and after its all said and done dont want to have over 12k total in the whole thing once i am finished with it and its back on the road
2.im not looking to sell the thing and i know i wont get my money back out of it,I am building it because i love it and want to learn alittle about engine building as i go
3.having it sat to the side for a month or so is no big deal i have other wheels
4.im just looking for the most bang for buck that will be durable for awhile,look great,and gain 100-150 horse

I have planned this since i bought it 2 years ago and have been putting aside extra cash just for this.I have absolutly nothing to do right now,some spending money,the place to do it,and 20 plus years of body and paint experience so why not just go ahead and park it and yank that thing out and get started on it.I dont want it to be a project but a job.I want to treat as if i were working on a customers car and once i get started not stop till its done.I dont rush anything but rather see it through till its finished.therefore I really dont want this to go on much longer than 4-6 weeks so i can enjoy it some before i have to park it from old man winter.I know my wife would be much happier if I dont gont OVERBOARD on it.All my materials for the body and paint work I allready have or I can get free.Will be spraying it with deltron dbc and a glam clear.I just want the thing to have more power that will hold up and looks good.I allways loved the lope sound from a nice cam and set of headers it just gives me chills. how hard would it be to switch to a non modular carb motor? would that be more expensive? love the look of alot of these 351w crate engines I have been looking online at. If ya'll had it your way with the budget that I have spoke of would you try to build the 4.6 modular or maybe go in another direction?
 
Buddy, you might want to give this a read. Schultz went outside the box and he has a few HP but others on here do have more than him. Just his wheel, tire and brake setup is right at $10K with a lot of paid labor involved.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=38923

and this one

http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?t=102872

The questions you're asking me, I wouldn't want to really advise on but someone like Driller, Roadboss, laser and a few others are the only ones I would listen to when it comes to an engine build. Look up their usernames and you'll see what they all have and then you will have better ideas of how to get the HP you desire.
 
I didnt read everything so forgive me if this has been covered. You have 5K and also know your front end needs work right? If you are gonna overhaul your front end with new UCA/LCA, strut rod bushings, tie rods and end links then thats $500 for just those parts from Rock Auto. If you need new air struts too then thats another $700 for OEM. Figure an additional $500 if you cant install that stuff yourself. Really its not too hard and taking my time I can do all that in under 2 hours.

No from a pure performance standpoint and 5 grand burning a hole in my pocket then this is what I would do if you want to stay away from a blower.

SCP IRS brace $140
SCP K-member brace $140
SCP firewall brace $140
Kooks headers $700
Magnaflow res/x-pipe $100
Mandrel bent pipes $150
Mufflers of choice $250
Gears plus trac lok $400 plus $500 for install
J-mod $100 for parts, $300 for labor
SCT chip and a dyno tune. Apx $600
Cobra brakes $600
18" wheels and tires $1500


Now that will put you around 300 rwhp give or take but the car will feel so much better and corner like its on rails. The gears will really make the car shoot out of the hole and the TL will allow the car to hook.



Now if you wanted to get blown:
I would buy "C" heads $500, 03/04 Eaton $200, 03/04 complete intercooler setup $800 and then about $1200 in misc stuff like injectors and MAF etc etc etc. Then it will run you about $1000 to have all that installed and another $600 for a chip and tune. You can run it at 8-9psi and it will be very safe on the motor and give you close to 380 rwhp. Anything more then that and you need to look at forged internals.
 
did not read so this might have been covered but for the power you want i would just slap in a 03/04 cobra moter.
 
no I allready have cat back dual 2.5" mandrell bent and x pipe exhaust. my car goes str8 down the road and doesnt pull at all so that is not at the top of my list.I allready have custom akuza 17" wheels. My bags are all good and dont settle a bit. but I seen you said I can get the heads for 500.00 I am assuming thats used then I have to have them machined correct? I like the idea of 380hp without changing the internals.now when you say c heads are you saying factory spec c heads or do I have something done with those as well. I was just looking at a kenne bell set up and am awaiting to hear back from them.when you say 03-04 eaton for 200.00 is this also correct? For these low priced you quoted me I would really like to know a few places you can get this stuff that cheap. this would save me tons from what I was ready to spend and might just satisfy me just right. thanks again.
 
As far as dropping in a crate or a rebuilt of some kind, unless you get an 03/04 cobra engine, you are basically getting the exact same guts/minus the crankshaft as what is already in your car. No an 03/04 cobra has a forged crank, manley pistons and rods already in it. Everything else is going to be basically the exact same thing you already have except possibly mildly different cam setups, and the crank will either be cast or forged. I believe the cobra 4v has the forged, everything else is cast. I would do a c-head setup, fuel pump, j-modded trans, stall converter, gears, drive shaft, and maybe brakes. But thats just me. O, and exhaust.
 
BuddyL said:
no I allready have cat back dual 2.5" mandrell bent and x pipe exhaust. my car goes str8 down the road and doesnt pull at all so that is not at the top of my list.I allready have custom akuza 17" wheels. My bags are all good and dont settle a bit. but I seen you said I can get the heads for 500.00 I am assuming thats used then I have to have them machined correct? I like the idea of 380hp without changing the internals.now when you say c heads are you saying factory spec c heads or do I have something done with those as well. I was just looking at a kenne bell set up and am awaiting to hear back from them.when you say 03-04 eaton for 200.00 is this also correct? For these low priced you quoted me I would really like to know a few places you can get this stuff that cheap. this would save me tons from what I was ready to spend and might just satisfy me just right. thanks again.
Click to expand...
Eaton's are a dime a dozen. Just keep an eye out on SVTPerformance and there is usually one for $150-$300 all the time. "C" heads are 99+ Cobra heads or Mach1 heads or Marauder heads or last couple years of the Continental. 03/04 Cobra heads do flow a little better then all the other "C" heads but for the price difference you can get the earlier ones so much cheaper. I see them on ebay and craigslist all the time for $500ish. I know a dude locally and can get you a pair for $400 off a 01 Cobra. They do not need to be machined and would bolt right up.
The intercooler setup is the harder part to locate cause most guys retain that part when they upgrade their blower to a twin screw. You can find them though on ebay and SVTP. For the lower plenum, tank, pump and lines people usually want about $450-$600. Then all you need is one of the long and skinny Afco heat exchangers which are about $250 new from Lethal Performance.

I have a KB blown Mark and can tell you that its killer but has its limitations. You can not intercool it so you are limited to 7-9 lbs of boost. The IATs are just way too high for any more boost then that. You can make more power with an intercooled Eaton setup at 9psi then you can with a KB running the same boost level. The reason why is you have IATs that are 50* cooler so the tuner can throw way more timing at it. With the cooler IATs and more timing an Eaton "C" head setup will give you about 40 more HP over the KB and be safer.

Now the alternative is using a meth injection kit. That will drop the IATs below the Eaton setups cooling ability but then you have a meth tank you gotta fill up every now and then. Plus if you use a 50/50 mix then you cant use it on a road course race track cause you will put out the flame. You would have to jet the kit smaller and run a 99% meth mix so you don't pool water in the combustion chamber.
 
DieselDan said:
As far as dropping in a crate or a rebuilt of some kind, unless you get an 03/04 cobra engine, you are basically getting the exact same guts/minus the crankshaft as what is already in your car. No an 03/04 cobra has a forged crank, manley pistons and rods already in it. Everything else is going to be basically the exact same thing you already have except possibly mildly different cam setups, and the crank will either be cast or forged. I believe the cobra 4v has the forged, everything else is cast. I would do a c-head setup, fuel pump, j-modded trans, stall converter, gears, drive shaft, and maybe brakes. But thats just me. O, and exhaust.
Click to expand...
You also loose an epic block in favor of a decient block. Another small isue is the 8 bolt crank that will require a new flex plate.
 
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