Track Time

AbrahamLincoln said:
when looking at the imrcs after 4k what will I see?.
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easist way is to verify they are moving when the engine is started, that way your not "revving the crap" out of the motor.

when the engine is off.. the IMRCs are OPEN
when you start it, vacuum supplied to the soleniods snap the IMRC's closed.

See my post in this thread about "where to look".


Or you could supply vacuum {engine off} with a vacuum pump TO the IMRC soleniods and with the engine off..

you should be able to hear the IMRC open and close if the engine is off.
You can also visually verify the IMRC "shafts" are turning at the same time.

check the vacuum T on the drivers side on the rear of the intake manifold "it's hard to see".

That Vacuum T often gets a pin hole or larger leak in it and wreaks havoc with proper IMRC operation.
 
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AbrahamLincoln said:
It's twenty bucks to get a pull on the dyno, I'll do that pull the chip,.
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If I were you, I'd pull the chip a couple of days {100ish miles) before dynoing the car.

Then.. after you get a baseline dyno pull on the car, THEN put the chip back in and make another pull..it'll give you better more "trustable" results if you do it this way.

Baselines are often overlooked and very important, especially when trying to track down a problem.

hope this helps

P.S. I want your car to go fast as much as you do.. believe it or not.
Slow Mark 8's make us all look bad {grins)
 
AbrahamLincoln said:
removed exhaust after midpipe.
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You might try getting just some straight pipe ran from the mid pipe back to the rear of the car, it'll probably help..believe it or not.

Should only cost about 100.00 dollars or less.
 
whatever you do.. try to do this stuff one at a time, then go to the track and see "what it does"..since we're going backwards thru your mods and such.

meaning.. fix one or at the most TWO possible problems, then go back to the track. That way.. it'll be fairly easy to find out "what fixed the problem".
 
XLRVIII said:
You might try getting just some straight pipe ran from the mid pipe back to the rear of the car, it'll probably help..believe it or not.

Should only cost about 100.00 dollars or less.
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Big +1 if for no other reason than to prevent poisoning yourself! I know i couldn't do that - i have a rubber grommet missing that seals the pass floor to underside.

Gonna try to snap some pics now of the IMRC function, to reinforce what has been said already...
 
Ok, just did it. My engine was cold so i did not rev it up to operate the IMRCs. Instead, i looked at the arms and disconnected / connected the solenoid a few times to verify their operation. Engine stumbles slightly when you do this.

At idle, the IMRCs should be closed. When you disconnect the solenoid, they will open. (or if you rev over 3K - but never rev a cold engine)

Can't show you the arms themselves, but can show you where to look.

DSC03309.jpg


DSC03311.jpg


DSC03315.jpg


To clarify: Pic 2 is looking below the throttle cable.

Pic 3 is looking under the air intake tube.

If you look in those locations you cannot fail to see them moving. (assuming they work)

BTW, they move pretty fast!
 
Need to make sure the shafts on the IMRCs are turning.
you can see them from the front of the motor, if you look closely.

drivers side is harder to see than the passenger side, but take a look "behind" the crossover tube" where it enters the intake.

of course a fairly clean engine is a plus
 
I have bfg g-force 245 tires. These work good for me and are under $100 each. I also think your times should be better with what you have on the car. Bone stock my 98 lsc ran 14.90 Now N/a 14.19 @97 MPH on the gas 12.68 @ 110mph. These tires hooked on the gas in first gear. 1.965 60' Good luck
 
ive had my previous tires hook with the gas on the street above 3500... They were sumotumo HTR I believe, stock though 225-60-16... but they didn't last too long. They were around the same prize as well about 100 bucks a piece. I like the idea of the 245 i think i may go with those just for the back....

93, Thanks for the GREAT pictures! I might not be able to get to it tonight because it is getting dark out but tomorrow i'll definetly grab a buddy and have them rev it up to 4k right?

Ok, I took the chip off and to my delight the car ran pretty well. I couldnt tell you if it was better with the chip off or not but it was too close to call so there is definetly some issues there. The only thing I notice when I take off the chip is that my fan doesn't come on where it normally does with the chip on and I get the guage on the middle of M or above A instead of on or a bove L.

I pulled the chip, romped around maybe 2 miles. Came back home through the scanner on there got 1 - 1 - 1 and continuous code 1-1-1 so which in my book is in the clear... no codes! This is with the engine off and the car in HOLD - with the scan tool on and hitting press on the scan tool. There is a way for to check codes while the engine is on but its kind of a confusing process. I figured if there was a code it would show up during this test.

I dunno maybe there is too much timing on my chip and the knock sensor is retarding it. I did tell them I was going to run colder plugs - so maybe I should throw a set of two step colders in ther and see how it reacts. But I ran one step colder and the car seemed to run better with stock plugs. I wrote down when I sent the chip in that I was planning on going two steps colder. But this is coming from the same tune that still is giving me issues with the driveshaft speed limiter (I presume) because chip or no chip ill can't go any further than 105 (3500 ish in 4th) the car kinda bucks and won't go any further in speed. It still feels like it wants to pull very hard right before that speed.

I can rule out codes at this point though, well at least KOEO (key on engine off codes). I know the chip works - so its not a question on whether its contacting right or not.
 
AbrahamLincoln said:
93, Thanks for the GREAT pictures! I might not be able to get to it tonight because it is getting dark out but tomorrow i'll definetly grab a buddy and have them rev it up to 4k right?
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No problem. You can do it on your own just by operating the throttle linkage, but if a buddy is available then by all means, use him.

Remember: If the engine is cold, and you want to see the IMRCs move, try the solenoid trick. Once the engine is fully up to operating temperature, then do the rev over 3K. (i hate it when people rev up cold engines - Lol)
 
I rode in his car and it seemed to be have adequate power for a mark, definately needs new meats tho.
 
93' Blue on blue said:
No problem. You can do it on your own just by operating the throttle linkage, but if a buddy is available then by all means, use him.

Remember: If the engine is cold, and you want to see the IMRCs move, try the solenoid trick. Once the engine is fully up to operating temperature, then do the rev over 3K. (i hate it when people rev up cold engines - Lol)
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I'm more of a visual learner, those picturs cleared everything up. I'm gonna try and test this out tonight at a gas station - just removed teh electrical connection at the solenoid right? or the vac? You had your hand on the top part of it which what looks like the electrical part of it.

I would assume that if they were not operating properly I would get some sort of code when I checked it. I'm gonna go out right now and give that test a try and see what I come up with.

Which cats are more likely to go bad than the others? I'm hoping its just the thrid one so I can hack it off and run the 2 in 2 out magnaflow or possibly just an X pipe. But i'm sure its not the easy one, it never is the easy one:mad:



+1 on taking out the chip
 
Staffamerica74 said:
I rode in his car and it seemed to be have adequate power for a mark, definately needs new meats tho.
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can't argue with that. That is step 1, tires. step 2 like tommy said drive around with out the chip for a couple days, dyno it and get a baseline. Pop the chip on go for another dyno pull see what turns up. A dyno will tell me if im losing power with out the chip from the gate so I can address stuff from there. If i'm losing power because of the chip that would be interesting to see as well, maybe theres too much timing on it??? 93 plugs in there?

as of right now stock plugs, gapped at .048, no chip, no engine off test codes... and im going out to check those imrc's right now.
 
AbrahamLincoln said:
I'm more of a visual learner, those picturs cleared everything up. I'm gonna try and test this out tonight at a gas station - just removed teh electrical connection at the solenoid right? or the vac? You had your hand on the top part of it which what looks like the electrical part of it.
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When i did the test earlier, i disconnected the electrical connector at the solenoid so i could operate the IMRCs without revving a cold engine. It's like this: Engine at idle, IMRCs closed, disconnect solenoid, IMRCs open, plug solenoid back in, they close again etc.

If you are going to the gas station, drive around for a few minutes first, to warm the engine up, then, you can simply operate the throttle linkage to rev over 3K - no need to touch the solenoid in that case.

Use a light to see down there - you'll have a hard time catching the fast movements otherwise.

BTW, i don't think our OBD 1 cars throw codes for sticking IMRCs - my 93' definitely does not.
 
ok drivers side works but the passengerside is more difficult to see... That's not to say it's not working. The car drives like shot with the solenoid unplugged. I did this to see if it would throw a cel and to test drivability. Passengers side is def harder to see I'm still having trouble finding it, maybe it's stuck because it's the movement of the drivers side that catches my eye.
 
Keep looking - you using a light? It is a little more difficult to see, but you will see the movement if that side is working.

Edit: Ok, cool. Move on to your next checks!

Oh, how much do they move? Should be approx 90 degrees, very fast and kinda 'snappy' (just trying to confirm that they are not sticky, sluggish or hanging up)
 
The crappiest tires I ever had on my Mark VIII were Continentals. I inherited them with the 10 spoke chrome wheels. They would spin with little effort with the 4.10s and a traction-lok.

When I ran at the track with just exhaust mods, 4.10s and a chip - I started with a 14.5 ET on Michelin Pilots getting a 2.1-2.2 sixty foot time. My trap speed was typically 93-94 mph. I was always told my trap speed was low.

To put that in perspective, I remember "spinning off the line" on my Nitto drag radials after installing the 3500 stall converter. I went from a then normal 2.0 sixty foot to a 2.3 and I thought I was gonna have to push it the first sixty feet! LOL

Not long after that the Nittos were retired.
 
93' Blue on blue said:
Keep looking - you using a light? It is a little more difficult to see, but you will see the movement if that side is working.

Edit: Ok, cool. Move on to your next checks!

Oh, how much do they move? Should be approx 90 degrees, very fast and kinda 'snappy' (just trying to confirm that they are not sticky, sluggish or hanging up)
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yea they are fast and snappy! Thats kinda why they are hard to see they move so fast. I wonder why gen 1's don't have a code for this. They are pretty important.
 
driller said:
The crappiest tires I ever had on my Mark VIII were Continentals. I inherited them with the 10 spoke chrome wheels. They would spin with little effort with the 4.10s and a traction-lok.

When I ran at the track with just exhaust mods, 4.10s and a chip - I started with a 14.5 ET on Michelin Pilots getting a 2.1-2.2 sixty foot time. My trap speed was typically 93-94 mph. I was always told my trap speed was low.

To put that in perspective, I remember "spinning off the line" on my Nitto drag radials after installing the 3500 stall converter. I went from a then normal 2.0 sixty foot to a 2.3 and I thought I was gonna have to push it the first sixty feet! LOL

Not long after that the Nittos were retired.
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Ok so tires is a definite of course... But if I had a 2.23 60 foot time, with out spinning (cause of the tc) why would I run such a crappy quarter?
 
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