GM car suck sooooooo bad.

[Big Mike]

Bill, to be such a down and out guy you sure do have champagne taste. There are a lot of pretty noteworthy, and good, GM cars well under 60k. Of the top of my head:

Regal Turbo
Camaro ZL1
Corvette GS
G8 GXP
LSx GTO
LS1 Camaro SS
LS1 Trans-Am WS6 (especially Firehawks)
Grand Prix GTX
Impala SS Lingenfelter
454 SS Pickups
GMC K-5 Diesel 4x4
Saturn Aura
G-body: 442, GNX, Monte SS Aero, 86.5 GP 2+2
There are several more...

If the mark viii is a good car, don't complain about the workmanship of any of these. Each have issues, each no worse than any mark as a whole.

 

[94m5]

Pfft!

Don't get me started on the 6.2/6.5l attempt at a diesel engine that GM stuffed down the throats of the American public.

 

[LaserSVT]

Bill, to be such a down and out guy you sure do have champagne taste. There are a lot of pretty noteworthy, and good, GM cars well under 60k. Of the top of my head:

Regal Turbo
Camaro ZL1
Corvette GS
G8 GXP
LSx GTO
LS1 Camaro SS
LS1 Trans-Am WS6 (especially Firehawks)
Grand Prix GTX
Impala SS Lingenfelter
454 SS Pickups
GMC K-5 Diesel 4x4
Saturn Aura
G-body: 442, GNX, Monte SS Aero, 86.5 GP 2+2
There are several more...

If the mark viii is a good car, don't complain about the workmanship of any of these. Each have issues, each no worse than any mark as a whole.

My list was of current production cars Mike. Cant break down every single car ever made but we will start with your list.


Regal Turbo I agree, bad ass. They dont have the balls for something like that any more.
Camaro ZL1 I like old Camaros and dont even need a ZL1, would prefer a 302.
Corvette GS Reading comprehension>you. Once again, I like Vetts. Have owned a 96 LT4
G8 GXP Again, great car. That was a home run IMHO. Too bad its gone
LSx GTO Love GTOs, want one badly. Short run though and they do look like Grand Ams
LS1 Camaro SS Second worst GM interior ever, rides like chit, crap rear end, huge hump in passenger compartment, stupid hard to work on motor, looks like a catfish.
LS1 Trans-Am WS6 (especially Firehawks) Meh, worst interior ever. Have owned 2, has all the Camaro problems except looks much better.
Grand Prix GTX No, just no. Poor engine seal design, good motor otherwise. Crap transmissions, poor switch gear, crap plastics, handles like total crap.
Impala SS Lingenfelter Again, just a Caprice. Way way way over 60k. The Lingenfelter option is 35K by itself. It is an ok car and built well though.
454 SS Pickups Please, Lightning any day of the week. 454SS was a gimick.
GMC K-5 Diesel 4x4 Bronco is superior IMHO
Saturn Aura Not even gonna comment on that one
G-body: 442, GNX, Monte SS Aero, 86.5 GP 2+2 Monte and GP 2+2 are ugly as sin. Old Olds are cool, cant deny that.


Mike, I am a car guy and have had so many cars I lost count. Ive had many GMs and delt with their issues first hand. Fact of the matter is Ford always had better interior with better materials and better ergonomics. On average GM has had more power and better acceleration but Fords counterparts have always handled better with the Corvette being the exception.

Over the last 20years as a whole Ford cars have been much better than GM cars IMHO.

 

[Big Mike]

Reading comprehension and me get along fine, I never said you didn't like any of those cars. Some of the cars on the list are current btw, regal turbo, vette gs, camaro zl1, all available under 60k in 2012. I threw out a list of cars to see what you thought, that's all, I ain't trying to get under your skin dude. I am glad I found a few that you can't dispute. That's cool! I know you can't pick on every tidbit like that and deny all those cars of what they earned! They didn't outsell or keep value because they were failures. I am a car guy like you, I'm 23 and at 75+ cars I feel you there. I have driven or owned some of those cars I listed and have my own first hand opinions about several. I just had to throw a few names at you to keep you thinking. I know part of your opinion is disagreement for the sake of 'because you can', we all do it. Some of those excuses are weak as hell. Fords have treated me pretty damn well, mach as you! But for every complaint about GM I've had, I really can find at least one in a Ford to match, or even in one of those euro contraptions I KNOW we both like.

I wanna see a mark outhandle a GP GTX though!

Pfft!

Don't get me started on the 6.2/6.5l attempt at a diesel engine that GM stuffed down the throats of the American public.

Served the military pretty well...

 

[Ed Hall]

The GM 6.2/6.5L diesel has served me well also and I've gone one with nearly 500k miles on the engine. I think the mix up was the 5.7L GM diesel that was not much more than a converted Oldsmobile gas 5.7L. These engines were pure garbage. GM later fixed many of the issues with the DX block but it was too late. Public perception of diesel motors in a passenger car was damaged. This is probably the reason we see so few passenger diesel cars in the U.S. while in Europe, it's very common.

 

[LaserSVT]

Reading comprehension and me get along fine, I never said you didn't like any of those cars. Some of the cars on the list are current btw, regal turbo, vette gs, camaro zl1, all available under 60k in 2012. I threw out a list of cars to see what you thought, that's all, I ain't trying to get under your skin dude. I am glad I found a few that you can't dispute. That's cool! I know you can't pick on every tidbit like that and deny all those cars of what they earned! They didn't outsell or keep value because they were failures. I am a car guy like you, I'm 23 and at 75+ cars I feel you there. I have driven or owned some of those cars I listed and have my own first hand opinions about several. I just had to throw a few names at you to keep you thinking. I know part of your opinion is disagreement for the sake of 'because you can', we all do it. Some of those excuses are weak as hell. Fords have treated me pretty damn well, mach as you! But for every complaint about GM I've had, I really can find at least one in a Ford to match, or even in one of those euro contraptions I KNOW we both like.

I wanna see a mark outhandle a GP GTX though!




Served the military pretty well...

I like to argue.


Couple small points.
1. 2012 Vette GS starts at $56K BUT you cant get one for that for two reasons. There has yet to be one made with zero options so most are 61K+ AND there is a dealer markup on them everywhere.
Now there are exceptions. There are a couple new 2011s floating around for right at 60k but you know how taxes are.

Current Reagal turbo, its now a FWD. Its a high power commuter car now. Prolly a decient car though cause the newer Buicks have nice interiors and finnaly figured out how to make a working suspension.


As for the Grand Prix GTX, its the same car as a GTP just with a ram air hood, different wheels, better intake and exhaust and I think larger brakes. No suspension difference. GTP, SSEi, GS all handle like chit. I have driven them all and driven them hard. They wallow in the turns, have a lethargic turn in followed by snap oversteer. There is no feedback and they have severe body roll.
A stock Mark VIII can outhandle one. Look up the specs for the day, Mark is faster through the skidpad and has a higher g through the turns.

 

[the1andonlyGR81]

thats miserable, buddy sorry.i got run over on my ninja 1000 in dec, paralyzed no work disability only 670 a month , but if i had to get rid of my lsc too. wow. wish i could help