Alternator OR NOT!!!????

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MsM8tress

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ok, I know my alt. is going bad, but I've been milking her, and she has been fine up till today.

Now, earlier today I had to get pulled out of a ditch, but we hooked chain up to frame, no problems.. starting and driving fine.

HOWEVER, I have been experiencing some starting problems...thought it was alternater (had it tested a while back said a bad diaode (sp?).

got home, went to leave again, put key in, all lights came on, turned key, nothing...all lights out, nothing nothing no power at all.

Is it the alt? Or could it be a bad ground, or starter??? Again, she has been acting up on starting...so I knew somehting was going, thought it was alt.

Tomorrow replacing alt, but if not alt - what else should I look for?

Oh and to make it really funny, she is blocking the garage, street is full of snow so can't roll out to get out 96....

It's Valentines day, and I am stuck at home - whaaaaaaa... but what concerns me is, even though the alt is bad, I kinda feel like it's not the alt...

Oh and it is not battery, swapped it, put in Tux's and still same as above, and the battery from the 95 put it in Tux and he turned right over, no hesitation or light dimming, nothing - 110% sure batteries are fine.

What's yall's take on it???
 
I'd put alternator out of your mind atm. Its gotta be a ground or the starter itself. Get under there and smack it with a hammer while someone tries to start it.
 
DieselDan said:
I'd put alternator out of your mind atm. Its gotta be a ground or the starter itself. Get under there and smack it with a hammer while someone tries to start it.
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THANKS DD!!! I kinda felt so....but... I am not a full fledged gear head...yet...

I'm not sure where the starter is, or the ground....got a description? Ya know, I've got everything lose for alt. install tomorrow morning - just loosened nuts to make sure there was no problems tomorrow when alt gets here, alt is still mounted and belt on.

dang...it's dark now.....but I can go tighten it all back up and wack away if you got a place to tell me? I'm diggin thru my cd's...but it's slow pulling up info...I should invest in manuals...
 
I'm having the same problem and I bet it's the starter. Since my mk8 is sitting stored in my garage, it isn't a big deal.

I have a starter out of a 99 Mustang GT that I'll be putting in when it gets warmer.

The starter is on the passenger side at the front of the transmission.

If you have a multimeter (they're cheap - GO GET ONE!) check the key on engine off (KOEO) and key on engine running (KOER) voltages at the battery, and the positive post to the alternator. If you're putting out more than 13.5v (14v is rather healthy) or so when KOER, your alternator (most likely) is fine.

Many parts places can also check the load the starter is putting on the electrical system. If the wires to it have a kink or some sort of resistance it could also be causing your problem.
 
well, I know for sure the alt. is going (tested it in the fall) but like I said I've been milking it. Only way I can get it checked now is to tow it, or get the meter. We have to get the alt. tomorrow at Adv. Auto - they should have a meter there yeah? It's too cold and dark out now...poop poop poop!!!!

I agree with you both, but I shoulda got my butt busy before winter and got it changed - any chance I coulda made the starter go bad by neglecting alt?

If so I deserve to be beat....dang it...man I have one heck of a headache after all this crap today.
 
Advance should have a bench tester as well as a meter to measure voltage & amp draw.

Also, before you put in your new alt you might want to make sure your battery is fully charged. If its a few years old, consider replacing it. Advance sells good tested used batteries for $34.99 - I've got one in my pathfinder and it's held up great, even in -10 cold!
 
Whoa. Back up.

Does it crank at all?

Assuming the battery terminals are OK (since you swapped batteries - I would say so) I would suspect the starter solenoid or solenoid wire.

The starter is on the passenger side of the block down low and towards the tranny. The solenoid wire is the smallest wire going to the starter. It has a push-on spade connector (if it is still the OEM). The connection can get corroded causing intermittent problems. If there is no crank at all it is likely the problem.
 
thanks so much hotties, now I know if she still doesn't start after a new alt. (and I feared she wouldn't), not to get upset. But I don't think tomorrow will let me install a starter...so off to the shop she will go...dang it I HATE that...I feel so inadequate.

I took the new battery from my 96 put it in her and same thing happened. Put the battery from the 95 (one not starting) into the 96 and he cranked right over, no hesitation at all. I'm good with the no brainers...it's the ones that require a little more that I am still learning on how to diagnosis.

I even tried looking for the ground, but couldn't follow it, kept getting lost and I could only get under her so far...
 
driller said:
Whoa. Back up.

Does it crank at all?

Assuming the battery terminals are OK (since you swapped batteries - I would say so) I would suspect the starter solenoid or solenoid wire.

The starter is on the passenger side of the block down low and towards the tranny. The solenoid wire is the smallest wire going to the starter. It has a push-on spade connector (if it is still the OEM). The connection can get corroded causing intermittent problems. If there is no crank at all it is likely the problem.
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No, nothing and I have to disconnect battery each time to get lights back on ...resetting computer I figure. But nothing, I put the key in, lights come on, then crank it, lights go out.

Can I get there myself tomorrow morning or does she have to be lifted to do that driller - and HI!!!! Hey wait a minute...didn't you come to my rescue on Valentines day two years ago in a really big way too!!!!

Please give Mrs. Driller my love and hope to see you both at Carlisle this year!!!
 
Haha, what is it with you and Valentines day? :D

Sorry I'm not there to help. :(

Unfortunately, you have to get under the car to get to the starter. Changing mine in my driveway was no picnic.

Time to whip out that AAA card. ;)

Have you tried to jump start the car?
 
driller said:
Haha, what is it with you and Valentines day? :D

Sorry I'm not there to help. :(

Unfortunately, you have to get under the car to get to the starter. Changing mine in my driveway was no picnic.

Time to whip out that AAA card. ;)

Have you tried to jump start the car?
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lol - yeah I know, V-day for me is becoming a stay at home day!!!! lol

and what do you mean - you are here once again helping me!

No have not jumped it, but did swap out battery for the new one I bought last week for Tux.

In your opinion does this sound like a good plan:
1-have bro-in-law help me swap out alt (need ride to AdvAuto and tools)
2-after alt changed out, call AAA and have them tow to get starter looked at.

Or just call AAA try their jump and take to shop to have starter looked at (either tow or drive to shop if starts after jump.)

We are supposed to get 4-6" snow starting at 6am tomorrow and if I don't have to put my bro-in-law out by having him help with alt I don't want to...but alt is going bad (like I said had it tested in the fall).

Yes, I should have done it when it tested going bad...could running a bad alt have made the starter go bad??? I don't think so, but would feel better if you told me no way...

I did up my AAA to gold after you and the Mrs's pulled me outta that mess 2 years ago.
 
I would call AAA and see if it would jump start. Either/Or it should probably go to a shop. It sure sounds like the starter. You could have the alternator changed too or save some bucks and do it yourself.
 
If its not starting with a good battery how would it jump start? Do the alt yourself since you know its bad then see if it starts.... if it doesn't buy a starter and have someone install it for you.
 
well, after watching you change the alt in Tux, I've done a few and I know I can, I just need the wrench, or breakerbar. Doing it in the cold and snow would be a pain, but if bro in law comes and we swap it out, then call AAA and have it taken to shop for starter...

Would a AAA jump be better than another car jumping?

They would charge like 60-80 bucks for the dang alt swap!!! Or get starter done/checked and then do alt after I get it back?

I would like to get it done while I have help...crap....my brain is fried... long day...but bro is on point for 7:30-8am tomorrow...crap I dunno...
 
MsM8tress said:

Would a AAA jump be better than another car jumping?
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Depends who/what they send. Anymore they simply carry a jump box. Now if they send a pro with a HD jumper setup - it is better.

The reason jump starting may work with a problem starter is the higher amps available.
 
Well you could just take the starter off Tux and try it on LBD ... alt is a no brainer ... to install ... just remember to disconnect the battery first ...

Are you sure your battery connections are clean and tight?
 
Staffamerica74 said:
If its not starting with a good battery how would it jump start? Do the alt yourself since you know its bad then see if it starts.... if it doesn't buy a starter and have someone install it for you.
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I was wondering about that too (jumping), that is why I asked driller if it is better to get their jump, I can ask when I call what they will send.
 
mespock said:
Well you could just take the starter off Tux and try it on LBD ... alt is a no brainer ... to install ... just remember to disconnect the battery first ...

Are you sure your battery connections are clean and tight?
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yes connections are tight, and I dont have a well equipped garage or even enough tools to do all that rich! I wish..! oh yeah and it will only be 20!

nope not any more Ultimate, I have two black ones now. I have not changed my sign. pics cause Ray made it for me ;)
 
MsM8tress said:
yes connections are tight, and I dont have a well equipped garage or even enough tools to do all that rich! I wish..! oh yeah and it will only be 20!

nope not any more Ultimate, I have two black ones now. I have not changed my sign. pics cause Ray made it for me ;)
Click to expand...

ummm ... Debi it's 2 sockets 10 mm and I believe a 14 mm and a 1/2 pull bar .. that's all and there are only 4 bolts and one nut. 20 degrees $hit I thought you were tough ... don't be such a puss...
 
Interesting... You say that you hit the key and the lights die. In my experience that is a lose battery connection. Not saying that is your problem, but when you see what I'm talking about you see a quick little zap from the terminal, then I guess it kindof carbons up the tiny spot where it was making continuity, if you wiggle the terminals on the battery, then the lights come on. This is an interesting problem, not sure if anyone is familiar with what I am talking about.

Another thing, an alternator is not going to cause a no start condition by itself, unless its seized and you already know yours isnt. If your battery has enough juice, it doesn't need the alternator.

Something I would try, just a shot in the dark is un plug both connections at the alternator, the red power wire, and the electrical plug, maybe something shorted in the alt is kicking the power like I said above with the terminal arcing.

Lastly, if it was me, I would try the tapping on the starter with a hammer while someone keeps moving the ignition from off to start, off to start...etc

Unplugging the alternator removes it from possibly being your problem, as long as you have enough juice it should start.
 
DieselDan said:
Interesting... You say that you hit the key and the lights die. In my experience that is a lose battery connection..
Click to expand...

hell if its the stock type battery clamps they dont even have to be loose to cause issues, replace them with the old style battery lugs, those crappy band clamps are crap at best
 
DieselDan said:
Interesting... You say that you hit the key and the lights die. In my experience that is a lose battery connection. Not saying that is your problem, but when you see what I'm talking about you see a quick little zap from the terminal, then I guess it kindof carbons up the tiny spot where it was making continuity, if you wiggle the terminals on the battery, then the lights come on. This is an interesting problem, not sure if anyone is familiar with what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

I am and I wiggled, no good had to disconnect completely to get lights on again.

DieselDan said:
Another thing, an alternator is not going to cause a no start condition by itself, unless its seized and you already know yours isnt. If your battery has enough juice, it doesn't need the alternator.

Something I would try, just a shot in the dark is un plug both connections at the alternator, the red power wire, and the electrical plug, maybe something shorted in the alt is kicking the power like I said above with the terminal arcing.
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I loosened all of them this evening for easy removal tomorrow. You are saying to completely disconnect and try to start basically bypassing alt, correct?

DieselDan said:
Lastly, if it was me, I would try the tapping on the starter with a hammer while someone keeps moving the ignition from off to start, off to start...etc
Click to expand...

that will be difficult, if bro doesn't come to help with alt.

DieselDan said:
Unplugging the alternator removes it from possibly being your problem, as long as you have enough juice it should start.
Click to expand...

and thanks to all again!!!!!
 
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