Supercharged Ls V8

Rocket - relax - you are not speaking on behalf of 'future customers' - sometimes you are funny. I am not ignoring you, I have not been on the board for a few days.... building some heat sheilds for the Lotus - after seeing the manifold and turbo glow red....

I normally run a tad over 5psi - and that is what I am recommending as a starting point for anyone following my work. Until we get more people pushing - we just do not know where the limit is. Maybe your work with the turbo will help define that (without breaking anything). Running 7psi with better cooling should work - I have run 7psi for a few months.

I have a set of custom 'quick change' pulleys - so I can change that boost level pretty easily. for the dyno run - I used my new smallest set - small enough I had to go to a shorter belt (the tensioner could not take up all the slack). I say your guess at my PSI was close.... it more fun when there is a little guessing right?
 
Let's think about pulling a meet together maybe over the Christmas-New Years break?

We can do a car,food, beers meet - or - if someone has some work to do - we can do another garage day at my place....
 
So what power does LS make with 5 PSI of boost?

(I guess you were running 9 PSI to get 350 RWHP)
 
Quik LS said:
Rocket - relax - you are not speaking on behalf of 'future customers' - sometimes you are funny. I am not ignoring you, I have not been on the board for a few days.... building some heat sheilds for the Lotus - after seeing the manifold and turbo glow red....

I normally run a tad over 5psi - and that is what I am recommending as a starting point for anyone following my work. Until we get more people pushing - we just do not know where the limit is. Maybe your work with the turbo will help define that (without breaking anything). Running 7psi with better cooling should work - I have run 7psi for a few months.

I have a set of custom 'quick change' pulleys - so I can change that boost level pretty easily. for the dyno run - I used my new smallest set - small enough I had to go to a shorter belt (the tensioner could not take up all the slack). I say your guess at my PSI was close.... it more fun when there is a little guessing right?
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Lou, it is understandable that you do not come on here often, but the question was asked repeatedly before your small absence for the Lotus project. There are allot of other people interested in your project and it is only proper to give them the facts on the combo. Running close to 9-10 psi is doable for a dyno run or two, but obviously not something a person will run all the time. That will be due to it being too much boost for an engine like this to be even remotely reliable as a street driven vehicle. I would like to see the results of what the car makes in a normal street driving boost level, versus "dyno day" boost levels as that is the real results people would look to attain with their cars. Lou, we do not do these people any justice if we run an inordinate amount of boost for a dyno session just to put up a number, but then run a much lower amount on the street. Usable results and data is what it is all about. Let me put it this way, there is no way in hell that I would run 9+ psi of boost on the LS 3.9 engine without having cash in hand for a rebuild in case the engine lets go.

Do not get me wrong, your car is something to be proud of for sure and it has posted some serious numbers when on pretty high boost (high boost for this engine). It has taken allot of effort to get you this far and you should no reason to feel anything but immensely proud of your project; but post some real world numbers at a boost level that people who may choose to follow in your footsteps will actually use safely.
 
Sn8kbordin said:
So what power does LS make with 5 PSI of boost?

(I guess you were running 9 PSI to get 350 RWHP)
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My educated guess is that Lou's LS is probably putting down about 300rwhp on 5 psi of boost. That is assuming nothing else has changed minus the boost level. Lou any dyno numbers on your normal 5 psi of boost yet?

Let me be the first to say that 300rwhp is no slouch for a car like this. That kind of power will likely push an LS to mid 13's in the 1/4 mile assuming good traction.
 
Rocket - you are just stating the obivious, and we agree.

Like I said in my post - I am also recommending people start at 5psi, and the pully setup we are starting on does that. Then once people are fully tuned and no other issue show up - then they can make educated decisions about increasing boost level, fueling, and re-tuning - understanding that they will be heading down a fairtly un-known path.

I drove around for six months or so at 5psi - did a varitey of driving types and all was good. I did get a fair about aof blow-back, which I added catch-cans to solve. Not sure there is a small crankcase pressurization problem or not - likely you will have to work through that as well.

I plan to bring Torrie up to do a real day of tuning - and it will include the 5psi setup. I am not expert enough to really polish the tune. I will post those numbers as well - and that's what people should expect form my setup.

300rwhp - just be close to 367~ish crank hp - which is close to where I was on N2O - and I ran high 13's. I really spun through the first 80'.

Once you get some numbers up to compare with - what I am assuming is that I'll lose a few hp to drive the roots (compared to the turbo) but may have a faster flatter torque curve? What's your thoughts?
 
Quik LS said:
I plan to bring Torrie up to do a real day of tuning - and it will include the 5psi setup. I am not expert enough to really polish the tune. I will post those numbers as well - and that's what people should expect form my setup.

300rwhp - just be close to 367~ish crank hp - which is close to where I was on N2O - and I ran high 13's. I really spun through the first 80'.

Once you get some numbers up to compare with - what I am assuming is that I'll lose a few hp to drive the roots (compared to the turbo) but may have a faster flatter torque curve? What's your thoughts?
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I remember that you said you have the PRP for your car. I suggest just really diving into it head first. Any other approach will take a real long time to allow a person enough experience to become a good tuner. Before I became a Ford custom tuner I used to rely upon other people to tune my vehicles. Frankly it was hit or miss with the tuning itself and with the customer service, even with the big name tuners. Once I made the jump to tuning my own vehicles I was much happier. You probably could have cut months off your project if you didn't have to rely upon someone so far away to tune your car. You obviously care about your car allot more than anyone else does. That is a big determining factor in how good your tune turns out because you will take the time to get it perfect while not taking it too far. With a very custom project like yours it becomes very beneficial. With other run of the mill stuff like supercharged or turbocharged Mustang's it has been done so much that there are almost full value files for those things that require very little real tuning from scratch. However, this is all determined by how much time can be dedicated to the learning process. Some people have the time while others may not.

I remember you posting about your nitrous run. Your 60' was terrible due to that lack of traction you mention. I would bet mid 13's with good traction on a combo similar to yours running 5 psi of boost and with good traction.

There is usually a good deal of difference between the horsepower that a turbo makes versus a supercharger; which you already know. That difference increases when talking about a roots blower (or twin screw) which has allot more mass to rotate then a centrifugal s/c. It also increases because roots and twin screw blowers run insanely high IAT's compared to centrifugal superchargers or turbochargers which means less dense an aircharge and less spark timing the engine will take. Once spooled turbo's are torquemonsters so I would be surprised if a roots combo made more average or peak torque on similar boost. You are right that your torque curve should come on a little bit before mine. However, with a properly sized turbo spool time will be minimal. Again, nothing personal meant in this last comparison. No "haha mine's bigger than yours" statements being made here. Just stating things on a technical basis only since you asked. What I want people to understand is that I am not just saying these things because I did a turbo on my car, I opted to do the turbo on my car because of these things.
 
No worries - I asked for you input and I appreciate you keeping it constructive. It will be neat to see the numbers of the two setups at the same PSI. Even if those things are close (which they should be..) the suttle things like launch, tip-in/tip-out, lag, ...etc are all unique and finer points to the setups.

I have owned several turbo cars, the LS is my first supercharged one. I am still dated a bit in my applications - similar to the OEs, where I turbo the small motors, supercharge the large. We are seeing quite a swing with turbos showing up on the larger displacements and having not only the power but the reliability and responsiveness.

All good stuff, glad to see the LS evolving - finally.
 
Quik LS said:
No worries - I asked for you input and I appreciate you keeping it constructive. It will be neat to see the numbers of the two setups at the same PSI. Even if those things are close (which they should be..)
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Lou, I am sorry but the results will not be as close as you seem to think. Your setup is making roughly 13.8-14.5rwhp per pound of boost assuming only 9 psi of boost and a baseline of around 220-225rwhp. I have seen MAAAAANY non-IC'ed remote turbo setups make anywhere between 18-22rwhp per pound of boost. Most IC'ed remote turbo setups are pushing 22-24rwhp per pound of boost. Though I do have a fairly large FMIC I still estimated my gains of around 20rwhp per pound of boost which is likely to be on the low side. Heck, even on a very inefficient V6 Mustang with 2 valve heads with no FMIC the gains were 16.83rwhp per pound of boost with a remote turbo. Now factor in a much more boost friendly 4 valve head and a FMIC. I really am not trying to be a jerk, but the math does not lie.


Quik LS said:
I have owned several turbo cars, the LS is my first supercharged one. I am still dated a bit in my applications - similar to the OEs, where I turbo the small motors, supercharge the large. We are seeing quite a swing with turbos showing up on the larger displacements and having not only the power but the reliability and responsiveness.
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You are right that turbo's have really caught on in the last few years with the domestic crowd. You go back even 5-7 years ago and no one ran them but on imports. Now it is the craze. Even as little as 3 years ago Kenne Bell Cobra's pushing 600-650rwhp were king of the Ford community. Now you aren't sh*t unless you are running a TT pushing 850-950rwhp on a daily driven Terminator. Crazy but fun times we live in. Speaking of turbocharged cars....lets see pictures of that Esprit.
 
PatrickSimmons said:
This is truely good stuff to see a real comparison of both the turbo and sc on the same model vehicle and get real world numbers.
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there are some differences - my pre-03 stock is 252hp, Rocket's 05 is 280hp stock and has some of the newer VVT, Throttle-by-wire, better exhaust, ....etc

Not sure how much of that GAP is thrown out by these types of modifications and the tuning. Rocket can likely tell you more about the differences - I have not tuned on any VVT LS.
 
ILLS said:
assuming only 9 psi of boost and a baseline of around 220-225rwhp.
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that's assuming 9psi ;)

ILLS said:
Even as little as 3 years ago Kenne Bell Cobra's pushing 600-650rwhp were king of the Ford community. Now you aren't sh*t unless you are running a TT pushing 850-950rwhp on a daily driven Terminator. Crazy but fun times we live in. Speaking of turbocharged cars....lets see pictures of that Esprit.
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As a point-of-reference - at the dyno day I was at - 31 cars. 7 put down over 1000hp.

All drove there and had plates, inspection stickers.
 
Quik LS said:
that's assuming 9psi ;)
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Well I took an educated stab at it and you confirmed it. If you happen to be running more than 9 psi of boost then your hp gained per pound of boost is even lower than my figures show. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming it was only 9 psi. I also asked if you were running meth, water, or alky injection and you said nothing to that affect...


Quik LS said:
As a point-of-reference - at the dyno day I was at - 31 cars. 7 put down over 1000hp.

All drove there and had plates, inspection stickers.
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Not bad. Technology is a great thing.
 
yep - you should hear more details in January.

I have to measure some pieces - meaning disassemble - so I'll likely do that over the christmas break. We are going to start with a 'second' one to shake out some of the pieces - like hoses, or things that may be unique to my car.

Then I should be able to tell you what can be provided and what can be sourced elsewhere, as well as, what will have to be made.
 
It's a Lincoln/Caddy forum, but

Let's see some pics of the Lotus turbo Esprit. English cars are cool.:cool: :cool:
 
That's a nice Lotus and it's really cool to see the LS in the background. Cool plate too.
 
Quik LS said:
yep - you should hear more details in January.

I have to measure some pieces - meaning disassemble - so I'll likely do that over the christmas break. We are going to start with a 'second' one to shake out some of the pieces - like hoses, or things that may be unique to my car.

Then I should be able to tell you what can be provided and what can be sourced elsewhere, as well as, what will have to be made.
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Hey Quik, Lol so I have this 130 dollar m90 in my room and I dont know what plenum/ intake manifold I need to get started. But I got good news I just got a job at a ford lincoln merc dealership in seattle as a tech. Learning lots of new stuff over the 4 weeks of working there. I have access to the oasis site for ford with all the tech notes , problems, recalls .etc its pretty interesting stuff. Starting to learn how to use the obd rotunda tool on the laptop with diagnostic tools. Instead of spending 120 to get a new key I spent 17 dollars to program it myself with that thing . Since my crazy ex lost my second key 2 years ago. One thing about the ls's though is no matter what, you will experience a leaking valve cover gasket if you own one. Im almost positive every owner of a ls has gone through it. Cool thing about the oasis site though is you enter your vin and you can get all the warranty repair history on your car as long as it was done by ford. My car has a criminal like warranty record . But if you ever need help with something let me know and I can help you if its something related to a ford defects repairs .etc. Anyways i dont know about your car but mine is sitting at the shop with a broken window. Some crack head bitch broke into my car for a set of chains a couple weeks ago. I have tinted windows so that kinda helped but glass is a pain in the ass to clean. But I got my insurance to pay for the window so thats a blessing. Hope you have a good holidays and ttyl, Mike
 
Is there alot of people who could fabricate this manifold? I didnt know this was a custom manifold lol. I just want to make my car faster either that or im 130 down the hole.





Quik LS said:
sorry - been traveling during the week....

So day 5:
- have the belt routing backet in place
- have the manifold in

...more to come today...
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