Help Please !!!!No Power New battery Turn the key just dash comes on no clicks or tic

[Telco]

Dead like the relay itself is dead, or no power to the relay? How are you testing the relays? Should see a short across the control points, and either a short or an open across the feed ports depending on the relay configuration. You should also see a change across the feed ports, once again depending on the relay configuration, when power is applied across the control points.

If there is no power to the relay ports that the relays plug into (check by probing the relay ports directly with a voltmeter, at least one should be live, may need the key in the on position) then the relay center feed would need to be checked to ensure that the relay center itself has power.

 

[lsev8]

Dead like the relay itself is dead, or no power to the relay? How are you testing the relays? Should see a short across the control points, and either a short or an open across the feed ports depending on the relay configuration. You should also see a change across the feed ports, once again depending on the relay configuration, when power is applied across the control points.

If there is no power to the relay ports that the relays plug into (check by probing the relay ports directly with a voltmeter, at least one should be live, may need the key in the on position) then the relay center feed would need to be checked to ensure that the relay center itself has power.

Only reason that I said that because I take the same relay and plug it into something else that has power to it and no lights came on once i swap the relay as soon as i put the old one back in the light was back on.

 

[Telco]

Hmm, you would need to make sure the relay is the same type. Relays come in normally open, normally closed, either/or, ect.

 

[1LoudLS]

I guess I don't understand you here. If you have identified faulty relays, why haven't you replaced them?

+1 this.

 

[RigsLS]

The PATS uses the PCM to enable or disable the engine. PATS disables the starter motor in addition to the PCM disabling the engine.

When PATS disables the vehicle, it will neither crank nor start.

The starter relay is used as an additional means of disabling the vehicle engine. The starter relay is disabled when the PATS cannot read a valid encoded ignition key at ignition ON.

The PATS will not store a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) or flash the theft indicator if a valid encoded ignition key is read but a fault occurs in the starter relay circuit.

The PATS is not compatible with aftermarket remote start system. Remote start systems must be removed before investigation of PATS-related no start issues


Is there an aftermarket remote starter on this LS ? Does the Op have a lot of junk on keychain nearby the encoded ignition key ?



PATS will not store a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) or flash the theft indicator if a valid encoded ignition key is read but a fault occurs in the starter relay circuit.

Meaning, it will not flash if the key is matched but it will if there is a fault in the starter circuit. It's mentioned it does indeed flash a DTC 1:1




Also ensure no large metallic objects, devices such as electronic debit transponders or a second ignition key on the same key ring as the PATS ignition key.

 

[RigsLS]

Has Fuse CJB #1 (Starter Relay Coil) in the passenger compartment right side kick panel been checked ?
Pull it out and do a properly continuity test across the pins.



Also: http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x36003.htm~gen~ref.htm

The engine does not crank: Pinpoint Test A

 

[RigsLS]

Here try this:

CHECK THE START INPUT TO FUSE 201 (5A) NOTE: FUSE 201 = #1 in the passenger compartment fuse panel (CJB)

1) Disconnect: CJB Fuse 201 (#1) (5 Amp, tan in color).

2) Turn the ignition switch to the START position and hold.

3) Measure the voltage between CJB fuse 201 (5A) input terminal and ground


Is the voltage greater than 10 volts? this is supposed to be the power going to the starter motor.


It will only get that power to there (fuse#1) if
1) DTR (Transmission Range) sensor (PARK/NEUTRAL) is working and
2) a completed ground from PATS via the instrument cluster, is provided.

The coil of the relay is then energized and sends power onto the starter motor.

If it's good there and still no starter turn over, then you're onto the starter.
You could at that point short out the POSITIVE terminal on the starter to a ground to see if she wants to crank.
(as it's always constant from the Auxiliary junction post from battery), (careful, it's 30A and you're close to welding things together)

 

[joegr]

BigRigLS, keep in mind the following:
1. PATS will also flash if the PCM isn't powered up, or the PATS transceiver isn't powered up, or there is a communications fault. (He has the code for transceiver not powered up.)
2. The SSP relays control what gets powered up. A PATS or key fault will not stop the SSP relays from being activated.
If the OP is correctly describing the faults (not sure that he is) then the problems he has probably don't originate with the PATS or the starter.

 

[RigsLS]

Ugghh, looks like I over read the following statement in the service manual.

PATS will not store a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) or flash the theft indicator if a valid encoded ignition key is read
but a fault occurs in the starter relay circuit.


Say Joe, where are these blink out codes listed anywhere ? All I can find is the ford diagnosis 4 digit codes.
I wouldn't mind finding the blink out codes and saving that in my notes separately.

if you know, thanks.

 

[RigsLS]

Thank Joe!



One another note, you'd think one would be able to find out what these switched system power relays are for.
SSP1 thu 4, not a lick of information on what they are for in the Service Manual or Electrical manual.

However, I'm not done reading yet, has to be listed somewhere.
+ I have to physically still look at them rather than pictures in manuals.

 

[joegr]

Thank Joe!



One another note, you'd think one would be able to find out what these switched system power relays are for.
SSP1 thu 4, not a lick of information on what they are for in the Service Manual or Electrical manual.

However, I'm not done reading yet, has to be listed somewhere.
+ I have to physically still look at them rather than pictures in manuals.

It's pretty clear in the gen I wiring diagrams. I responded to the OP when he PM'd me with the general info.

SSP1 = some front lights and PATS transceiver and driver's door
SSP2 = more front lights and the FEM
SSP3 = some rear lights
SSP4 = REM, more rear lights, fuel door release

 

[lsev8]

No aftermarket alarm on it all this started because I ran low on gas i use to get crank before my trusty lol mechanic starting checking voltage on it and then i got no crank no start and then the pats code kicked 1: 6

 

[lsev8]

no aftermarket alarm..im puzzled

 

[RigsLS]

Frick, I can't find it, at least not in plain english printed out.

I see, SSP1 Relay, K321 to C441

I have both the manual printed version of the 2001 wiring Diagrams and the First Gen service manual on DVD


~ simply confused, can not find it.

 

[RigsLS]

pats code kicked 1: 6

16 now ? I thought you said 11 before ?

 

[lsev8]

no aftermarket alarm

 

[lsev8]

16 now ? I thought you said 11 before ?

when i switched relays today I put the rear lights relay into the ssp1 turned the key and after a min it kicked me the 16 code i'm way out of my elements i will try damn near any approach to get this beau running again!

 

[purevilpleasure]

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?71331-PATS-light

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?79966-PATS-light-blinks-code-16

I'm thinking....as well as others are...will you just go get the correct replacement relays and also clean the terminals in the relay box?

It's the easiest thing to do is make sure you have 100% contact/100% correctly functioning relays.

Remember!!!!! Not all relays are created the same!!!

 

[purevilpleasure]

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-52380.html

 

[RigsLS]

this is "Relay" giving me a headache!

 

[lsev8]

Also when I go buy new relays do I ask for particular ones and how do I clean the ports to ensure great connections

 

[joegr]

when i switched relays today I put the rear lights relay into the ssp1 turned the key and after a min it kicked me the 16 code i'm way out of my elements i will try damn near any approach to get this beau running again!

16 = PCM not powered, usually.

 

[joegr]

Also when I go buy new relays do I ask for particular ones and how do I clean the ports to ensure great connections

Easiest just to take the existing relays with you and get them to match the new ones to them.

For your other question...

FEM = Front Electronics Module - Runs the lights at the front of the car, the interior lights, reads the trunk release button, fuel door release button, and several more things.
REM = Rear Electronics Module - Runs the rear lights, the fuel pump, the fuel senders, most of the windows and locks, trunk light, trunk release, power to most of the car via the SSP relays and a few more things.

 

[LS4me]

i use to get crank before my trusty lol mechanic starting checking voltage on it and then i got no crank no start

Hmmmmmm.........

 

[lsev8]

Hmmmmmm.........

another stupid question>
so I'm going to take the relays out and replace them is their a correct order since I don't have a clue if the idiot swap them and didn't put them back in the right order?