Devin's 06 LS - Round 2

Lincoln LS

  1. DeviLSh

    DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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    Preview of this weekend's fun:

    Old vs new, of the damage mentioned in previous post
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    Oem coolant parts (all except degas tank, done a bit ago on its own)
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    And new radiator, more details in a few days
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  2. RigsLS

    RigsLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    Ah yes, now I understand why your other "stripping the LS of all it's useless weight reduction project" thread.

    What's the verdict on the scaling job of them two rads Devon?
     
  3. DeviLSh

    DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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    It was time to change all cooling parts. Too much here and there by prev owner and myself, so I did it all. Also did injector O-rings, all manifold gaskets, and egr gaskets.

    Useless being a relative term in this case. :)

    The mustang rad should be able to accommodate the dccv and aux pump, but I am still looking to remove them as I will also not have heat eventually and want to simplify the cooling system. There is still too much, I will probably revisit the overall hose setup eventually.

    The mustang rad is BIG, but the similarities are close enough that the swap is feasible. Using 3 out of 4 ls rad mounts, modified the 4th. Main hoses need a bit of trimming and the fan shroud needs a small notch but otherwise bolts up like stock. Small brackets used to secure dual-cooler to rad as well, but all in all pretty surprising how compatible they were.

    Not sure I understand your scaling question. 15lb vs 9lb, so I'm +6 with this swap, before taking into account the deleted parts
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  4. RigsLS

    RigsLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    I'm just not getting the point of reducing weight to include a heavier (w/ more coolant) radiator.

    Sacrifice the DCCV, Aux pump, some light piping then +6lbs with a bigger rad. ???

    Somewhere along the line it would balance out to near the same, so why not have kept interior heating? Not like it runs of the pulley and saving bigger weight like the cooling aspect would.

    I do like and appreciate the look of the new rad, no doubt at all.
     
  5. DeviLSh

    DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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    I get your point for sure, but again "sacrifice" is now a relative term here since I was never intending on keeping a majority of comforts in the car. So I gained weight on the rad but lost weight with the deletes. So I have already netted to zero with the added benefit of (hopefully) better cooling characteristics from the new rad. The LS's overheating problems are no secret, so the more efficient the better even if I sacrifice some weight gain. I am okay with that. Still have other parts to take off which should bring to an overall net loss.

    I also wanted a setup I can grow into and get parts for down the road. Mustang parts are easier to find now and most likely later. There is an Ls/tbird/stype aluminum rad on eBay but I cannot find info on the vendor or product to gain confidence in the purchase. Either way. I can now shop for shrouds, fans, etc for a mustang if I want to keep going. Looking into slim fans next, but need to learn more about how the stock LS fan module and system works.

    Got the car bled last night and no leaks, good temps too during the process. Will bleed again tonight before the first test drive.
     
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    • BigPapaLS

      BigPapaLS New LVC Member

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      DeviLSh - always enjoy reading your projects. Takes me back to my younger days when my buddies and I would just look to squeeze every ounce of performance out of what we had. You are a true enthusiast/mad scientist. LOL. There will always be people questioning what or why you do something to your car, because they don't get it. But that's just it. They don't get it. Not what the deleted part or system DOES, but that you are willing to (as you put it) "Sacrifice" things that can be cut out. Whether that be weight reduction, less clutter, or to simplify things for your own desires. You do you. You clearly know what you're doing under the hood!

      Keep up the great work!
       
    • RigsLS

      RigsLS Dedicated LVC Member

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      Silly statement really. You added your 2 cents, that's all that matters.
       
    • BigPapaLS

      BigPapaLS New LVC Member

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      Just my opinion, just as you have yours. No need to get upset over it. DeviLSh is willing to explore new territory for his own wants, and he clearly knows what he's doing. As someone who shares the same passion, I find that very cool. I said what I said because I know it all too well.
       
    • DeviLSh

      DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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      Can anyone refresh my memory.

      Tstat opens @ what temp
      Fans turn on @ what temp

      210 and 225? (Cannot rememebr consensus on this)
       
    • joegr

      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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      Neither is like a switch.
      Thermostat starts to open at 195.
      Fan hits full speed at about 230, but starts before that. The fan is PWM controlled. There are scope captures posted on here of the signal. It is somewhat complex.
       
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      • RigsLS

        RigsLS Dedicated LVC Member

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        Upset about it? ... still making up stuff it would seem.

        What do you get out of posting silly "don't get it" comments. How would you even know if others get it or not?

        I don't get what? That he has another thread dedicated to weight reduction? Clearly he's aware he compromising that plan (ever so slightly) by sticking heavier rads in it while removing interior heating components. Clearly this is what he wants to do. No one said he shouldn't. What is it you suggest I do not get about that? I put forth a tease that I didn't see the point if we're going back up in weight!

        How about you mind your manners and understand I know Devon well enough to be able to discuss this with him without you popping in and recommending what or what others don't get.

        Clearly you did not understand I questioned him how he felt about it and what the difference in weight would be between the two. I also clearly stated my opinion towards him with respect to keeping interior heating along with the stock rad if it totaled out the same.


        You know what all too well? That others don't get it? That's the best you can come up with?




        .
         
      • DeviLSh

        DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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        Been a few days now on the new rad, so I will post some more info on the swap. the cooling performance has improved, drastically.

        General:
        I am running a Mustang V8 all-aluminum radiator from Mishimoto. It was ordered from CD3 performance, but here is the manufacture's link. It is for the 05+ Mustang. I spent considerable time looking for LS, Stype, & Tbird rads, with no luck on anything all aluminum, short of sending in stock specs to a custom outfit like Griffin. However, when I came across images of a stock stang rad, I noticed the shape similarity and Inlet/outlet location was just like the LS. I decided to investigate the specs, I compared them to the LS, and after being comfortable with how close they were - figured I would give this a shot. Once I got it out of the box, it was clear this would not be a direct fit. So please read this, as this is not a direct replacement for the LS rad. Also please keep in mind my LS does not have the A/C system, which may have helped my fitment. While I think this can work for any LS, even with A/C, it will require some minimum modifications.

        Comparison:
        36159771070_233272555f_c.jpg

        Changes to the Mustang Rad:

        I only made one change to the mustang radiator. In the upper-driver's corner, is a welded nipple for hose not present on the LS. I had this removed and replaced with a -8 AN aluminum male bung. So that I could effectively cap it. I figured down the road if I change motors, cooling setup, etc that retaining and port here would be good insurance.

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        Changes to the LS:
        Overall - changes needed to fit into the LS were not too bad. One mount, Fan shroud, a bracket or 2, and some hose trimming.

        I was able to use 3 out of 4 original LS radiator mounts. Only the 4th, (lower driver) required modification. I had to notch the bracket, then I retained the LS rubber bushing, and used a series of nuts, long bolt, and L bracket to support the rad from the bottom. There was already a hole in the bracket for my bolt to pass through. This worked out nicely, and allowed me to not only secure the rad at all 4 corners, but it also helped take some stress off the main hoses and keep the radiator at a level mounting position.

        36388291312_270546a051_z.jpg

        Ironically, the LS Fan & Shroud were almost meant to be mounted to the mustang rad. The new rad had notched tabs located on it for the shroud to rest in - just like the LS rad, along with mounting provisions (2 per side). We had to slightly notch the driver side bracket to allow the shroud to sit level, and for the upper-driver bolt hole to align. Otherwise, this part was relatively easy. The fan is secured using 2 oem bolts, and one of the lower tabs. It is sturdy and the coverage area of the radiator is almost perfect.

        Notch: (we used a standard file to make it)
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        The stang rad also has two notched brackets on the front, JUST LIKE THE LS, for the accessory cooler(s) of P/S and Auto Trans. I was able to rest the coolers directly into the brackets like stock, and was pretty happy. Some side to side play was present, so I used a small piece of steel, drilled it, and made a bracket. The holes did not line up, but were easily joined with this bracket. **This is where if you are retaining A/C, the job may get more difficult. As some added caution may exist to fit the cooler, rad, and A/C condenser.There are plenty of threaded holes on the Mishimoto rad to make brackets for mounting both**

        35721709484_2e87bc6679_o.jpg

        After the initial test-fit, it was clear the new rad was wider, and therefore closer to the engine. The main hoses, and the small hose of the T-stat housing needed to be trimmed slightly to prevent kinking, and contact with the fan shroud. Use a good set of hose cutters or a sharp blade and take about 1/4" off at a time. Testing as you go. If you don't cut the hoses down there will be *slight* kinks near the bends. We could have installed as-is, but thought it would be best to perfect each hose. After everything was on, we secured the oem spring style clamps, and secured the upper rad mounts. We were done!

        35747894213_05111483ba_c.jpg

        New rad is also slightly taller, so it pokes out of the bottom a bit more. However, no modification to the bumper, skidplates, or under-panels was needed. Everything bolted up A-OK.

        36388291552_be738ca1ee_c.jpg

        Verdict / Results: (Ambient b/w 70-90*F)
        Bleed the system like normal, being sure to follow instructions exactly. After bleeding once, then again, then again (1x per night, letting it cool down in between) I was confident I had the air out, and no external leaks were found.

        I began to drive it. Now, it is possible I had some air before, or my parts were starting to go. But so far, the rad is outperforming stock very well. The car warms up about the same, within a few minutes, and at around 190, it begins to slow down. Once driving, it almost NEVER comes above 205 or so. If it does, its because you are driving hard, or creeping in traffic/low speed. I am seeing 195-200 at most driving times, with 205-210 in higher stress times. On the highway I have seen it drop to 188-192. Average temp though is 195 in most cases. Another thing to note, is that if/when the temp climbs, the efficiency of the rad is so great that within a few seconds of driving the temps fall back to the 190's. We "stress" tested it by doing back to back 1st-3rd gear pulls, a burnout, highway pulls, and then coming to a stop. The system worked flawlessly.

        Cruising for about 25min at 80mph
        36159771040_06d18089cf_c.jpg

        So far, the fitment, performance, and overall success of this swap has exceeded my expectations. Should be interesting to see my temps next time I am at the strip.

        Please feel free to ask any questions on fitment, product, etc. I will do my best to respond.

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        Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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        • DeviLSh

          DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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          While I am updating this thread -

          During the cooling overhaul/rad install I also replaced the following:
          - Coolant Hoses (Throttle body pair, Upper & Lower main)
          - Oil Cooler, Tstat, Crossover Pipe, block water outlet
          - All associated coolant gaskets
          - EGR gaskets, Both throttle body gaskets, upper and lower intake manifold gaskets.
          - cleaned lower plenums, replaced injector O-rings.
          - Oil change ; Mobil1 and OEM filter (first time she is getting ful synth!)
          - Coolant drain and fill, complete.

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          • Andrizzle

            Andrizzle Dedicated LVC Member

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            At first I wondered why you would remove the AC.. But then remembered you are dragging this. That rad is huge!
             
          • DeviLSh

            DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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            Couple updates -

            Weight Reduction:
            Last weekend I removed the heater core and all of the ducting associated with the dash. Total weight of the core and its hardware is about 36lbs. The center console and center ducting was also pulled. This came in at about 11lbs. There is a TON of room behind the dash without the core there, should make for some simplified relocating of things in the future to help re-allocate weight distribution.

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            Block-off plate for A/C firewall ports

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            Diff Project Update:
            This arrived in the mail, along with a pair of gen1 LS axles for my diff build. Thanks Dave!

            BNIB 8.8" Ford t-loc (lsd).
            36705134061_b838e3e074_c.jpg

            Performance & Exhaust:
            I have been running a rear muffler delete for over a year now, and I love the sound. Even get a lot of compliments on the road. But it was lacking refinement and tone for me, so yesterday I decided to visit my buddy's shop and re-work the catback. Nothing ground breaking here, but I have essentially copied the MF kit, sans rear mufflers. The result is a setup a little more quiet overall but way more balanced, refined, and smooth. I am in absolute love with the sound. Will work on getting some videos up. Upper rpm and top end performance seems to have picked up a bit too. The car feels very smooth and fluid on the throttle. Placebo maybe, but either way I am happy with it.

            36823447155_72c60bca21_c.jpg 36652789242_5ff80fda22_c.jpg

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            Setup is as follows: 2.5" piping, with 2.5" X-pipe and a pair of resonators. 2.25" piping after the resonators to my existing 3.5" tips. The fabricator also added a cross-brace between each run, to absorb vibration and keep alignment in check.

            Car goes to get dyno'd at a local SCT tuner next week to make sure the intake/exhaust are to their fullest potential. After that, looking to get back to the track. Hoping for a 13.99 or better on the current setup.
             
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            • 02LincLS

              02LincLS Dedicated LVC Member

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              Great work! How fast was your last run, 14.3? I don't know how much weight you pulled all together but it would have to be substantial to crack 13's. You might get it though if the existing tune inst optimal, and sct can improve it. Plus 100lbs is good for roughly a tenth of a second. You had pretty good weather for a fast run on that 14.3 so you may need less gas in the tank to get another advantage. Did you drop your rear tire pressure to about 25 (and pump up the fronts to about 40)?
              Hopefully the weight of the t-loc is justified at the track (no doubt it will be worth it with regular spirited driving). I used to turn the wheel slightly left to get the left rear to spin, then stop and turn right to heat/clean the right side. No water pit. I could avoid 1 tire fires with this method but still had poor traction out of the hole (thanks to the spray).
               
            • DeviLSh

              DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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              All good points, Dave.

              - Correct, Last run was 14.3 @ 97 w/ a 2.2 60ft. October, so likely great air temps. Intake, muffler delete and Torrie tune. about 1/4 tank I think.
              - I need to check official notes, but I am approaching the net -300lb mark in total weight loss. That includes the add-back for heavier STR brakes and Stang Rad.
              - Changes from last time other than weight will be lighter wheel & tire combo (3-4lbs per corner), exhaust setup, radiator, and tune changes from this Friday.
              - Not sure what the tloc & mark8 assembly will add. I intend on weighing both to add to my log
              - always avoided the pit, did not adjust tire pressure or influence traction loss. Will incorporate both next visit, thanks for the tips! 25/40 i will have to remember.
               
            • jgscott

              jgscott Well-Known LVC Member

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              I have Not done it myself. But, with the Tune, Intake and exhaust you have. Getting a junk yard Throttle Body and sending to a shop it to have it bored out and enlarged might be good for 2/10ths to 3/10 a sec itself.

              My next suggestion would be looking into some more less restrictive Hi-Flow Cats, that have good flow bench numbers to back them up.

              I also have been looking at the Jag 4.0 exhaust manifold headers, they look a little bigger. Not sure if they fit tho. Finding out is on my bucket list.

              Also lots of people take the passenger seat and rear seat out for the track. They are heavy in the LS.
               
            • DeviLSh

              DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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              Interesting. I have a spare TB sitting in my garage from the donor intake manifold. I do worry about net gains, and driveability though. Any recommendations on who I can send it to for an opinion on potential? I also have a spare throttle "neck" that the TB bolts to, they could be matched I suppose but it it seems like the fun will stop once it hits the composite manifold anyway. I am no expert, but it seems like putting a straw over my mouth that is bigger than my mouth wont let me breathe any better. so unless the straw is smaller than my mouth/lungs ability - what is to gain from this? Velocity? the path of air? etc. Sorry for the strange analogy, I am just not sure why they would leave this kind of power gain on the table in a modern TB.

              I am looking into some 200cel cats from Gesi, to sue with fabricating custom Downpipes. These cats are used in a lot of aftermarket downpipes for other makes. But are pretty $$. I have also looked on jag forums to see if others gain anything on those motors with a set of hi-flo DP's. Not a lot of data out there to suggest good cost benefit. Definitely something to look into though.

              Let me know what you find out regarding the Jag manifolds. I was under the impression the head ports and manifolds were the same b/w 3.9 and 4.0. In my case being gen2, maybe the nat.asp 4.2 has larger manifolds I can run.

              Backseat and its hardware is out, I will eventually run a pair of different set of seats up front to replace the heavy stock units.
               
            • jgscott

              jgscott Well-Known LVC Member

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              Enlarged Throttle Body and port matching do work. Long as you don't go to big. Who does it? My best answer would be Google and call.

              The straw mouth theory would also debunk a after market air intake and filter system? Would it not?

              There are some Cat that out flow others. This link is old but was flow bench testing. Don't know who has more recent data? Manufactures Cats are pretty good now a days but there's always something better more free flow.

              Catalytic Converters

              Someone would have to source the LS vs Jag Type R Supercharged exhaust manifolds to measure up or flow to see if its better? Im just guessing it is due to increased HP. Also on my bucket list one day to do.
               
              Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
            • DeviLSh

              DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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              Took some videos over the holiday weekend, editing now. Might have to mess with my mic settings to get it right for you guys to hear. Will upload those soon as I am traveling for work this week.

              Got the car back tonight from the tuner. I do not have a baseline (not sure why he did not take one). He started from scratch as Torrie's tune cannot be viewed. I believe the equipment was a dynopro. I was told its between a dynojet and mustang, and he used a conservative correction for the final run. "It might make more, but I used the lower correction". -tuner. AFR, timing, tq mgmt, and shift points were all modified. He also deleted the EGR in my tune, so I can safely remove the hardware. Lastly, the fan temp switch and fan speeds were modified in the file.

              Results: 258 rwhp @ 6150rpm, 278rwtq @ 4100rpm.

              This seems to be right on par, and pretty good, based on other genII LS dynos I have seen with intake/exhaust/tune. I care more about 1/4mile times than I do dyno #'s, but its good to know the tune is now matched to the setup and running strong. I had a short 20 min drive home, and the car felt fantastic. Midrange and throttle response is on point. There really is no substitute for a custom dyno tune. Torrie's file was great, but the car is noticeably different.

              Let me know what you guys think of the results.


              Dyno_9.5.17.jpg
               
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              • DeviLSh

                DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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                new video of the exhaust setup:

                 
              • heyjewel

                heyjewel Well-Known LVC Member

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                I've long been reading your posts and lusting after a lot of what you're doing. Wow.
                We do have a couple things in common - LSes (I have three) and mkZeees (we have a 2014, sunset/beige in color including all or most all options - pano sunroof eg). We used to have a 2013 red/black but we had it only a couple months when it was totaled. We went out and got another one.

                OK so really I want to ask a couple of questions about what you've done etc. I'm rebuilding the V6 from my 2001 Getrag LS and doing a lot more while I've got it up on jackstands. And I'm thinking of replacing the rear sway bar bushings just cause the front ones go bad so often I figure the rear ones are due (200K miles on the car). Looking in the DVD manual I see I am most of the way towards dropping the rear subframe to get at the bushings but I'm leery of that. Have no special equip to lower it. Thinking a floor jack might work? How hard was it for you? Did u put energy suspension bushings in? Also replaced the sway bar links on front and on rear. Looking at a badly beat up bearing at the end of my rear toe links. See that Lincoln wants the whole thing, L, R and middles to be replaced. Did u do that?
                Putting new sway bar bushings on front, all new coolant hoses, new water pump, would do oil cooler but have failed to find one. Also bought a set, one of the last sets I think, of 4 Stance DEW98 adjustable shocks. I know they'll handle great I hope they don't ride too harsh.
                I've got the heads on the engine now. Waiting for some nearly unobtainable parts to come in before the (new) timing chains and hardware go on. Getting really antsy to get the engine back in the car and take my stick shift Lincoln for a drive again.
                Keep on keepin on and any help/advice you may have for me is greatly appreciated.
                 
              • DeviLSh

                DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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                Happy 2018 All

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              • DeviLSh

                DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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                All parts are in, Diff is getting assembled.

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