CC recall, Ford STEALERship, new cel P1414

I appreciate you taking the stealer's side on this- good to be objective. I'm 100% certain they disconnected it and took the relay; I carry an xcal2 scanner/tuner all the time. If I ever get a CEL, I identify it right away. The smog pump diverter/flow direction valve has pulled a P0411 periodically in the past. That's mechanical (pressure related).
The P1414 and 1413 both pertain to voltage. They both came up for the 1st time after the stealer gave it back yesterday. Thanks to them I had no line voltage to the pump and no relay, hence the new and different codes. P0411 is mechanical, 11414 and 1413 are electrical. With the open ground it read excessive voltage. Now with no relay it reads low voltage.
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But you're right, I have no proof. All I can do is ask them why they went in the drivers side and I have a new part on the pass side. At that point he'll prolly deny they ever said they went in on the drvr side
 
I don't know how you took that I was siding with the dealer. I have been working with you here trying to help.
 
it sounds like you're on my side which I appreciate, but also being objective (which I'm totally not)...
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post #44.... you're suggesting the pump was already disconnected and without relay before i went to the stealer and it just starting pulling different codes immediately when the stealer finished the harness mod... i.e. all they did wrong was pull the driver's wheel off instead of the pass side?
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since Rich's kid's car burned maybe some other guys will get the mod done, I still need it on my brown car
 
dnsherrill said:
it sounds like you're on my side but also being objective (which I'm totally not)...so that's good
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see post #44....sounds like you're suggesting the smog pump was always like that, it just starting pulling codes immediately when they gave the car back to me... all they did wrong was pull the wrong wheel off at first
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since Rich's kid's car burned maybe some other guys will get the mod done, I still need it on my brown car
Click to expand...
I'm just trying to throw different things out there. I would be pissed too if I dropped car off then 2 hours later before even getting off lot CEL comes on. Now me as a mechanic would say "bring it back in and we'll check to see if something got messed up" The tech should have noted NO CEL's when brought in, he put it on lift and would know. But dealers get people all the time saying you just broke my car too so I can understand there side too. I have worked on people's brakes they leave hit bump or curb and now exh is loud and I broke it. lol BTW all my mk8's cruz are unplugged. NO FIRES.
 
I don't know you at all but correct me if I'm wrong. You sound like one of those people who are never ever satisfied no matter how perfect something is. Just seems like all your postings makes you sound like a serious nitpicker and no matter what is done, you will always find fault with it. I'm not trying to start a fight with you, just what I feel when I read some of your postings.
 
You're right in some cases amigo: my expectations are unrealistic and I pick the nits- this is not one of those cases.
Are you by chance a mechanic at a stealership?
I don't know how you are, but for me, driving around with a CEL is intolerable and should be resolved asap
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When I go to Cherokee Ford dealership in Woodstock, Ga. for a factory recall to prevent my car from going up in flames, I don't expect to have new CEL's, a pump disconnected and a part missing. If I ask them to show what they did, I expect them to show me.
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Why did they do it? Who knows......maybe the mech realized I was on coils and figured he'd take the relay off my air pump - but he confused the smog pump with the air pump? :confused:
- Maybe he knew it'd throw a new CEL and I might come back in to pay them for diagnostics and repair? easy enough, he already has the part to fix it.
-Maybe he is a complet idiot and didn't know what he was doing.
Regardless, as Dan mentioned earlier, there was no reason for them to be on the drv side.
If you haven't been to your local stealer in a while go in for the cc harness recall, I'd suggest you watch them work on it
 
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My Great 8 said:
That 4 wire connector looks like it should plug into a relay that is missing. That must be why it took them 2 hrs. They had no idea what they were doing so they just unplugged things and removed your relay. BTW, that relay just cost my friend in New Jersey $140 from the dealer! They definately did you dirty!
Click to expand...
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I'd guess their fix is $100 to diagnose, $200 in labor, $140 in parts...
 
I put the relay off the 95 ABS on my smog pump- it may not be a match;
-the P1414 and P1413
14:Secondary Air Injection Monitor Circuit High Input
13: Secondary Air Injection System Monitor Circuit Low
are both gone
-now I have P0412 (Secondary Air Injection System Switching Valve A Circuit Malfunction)
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When the PCM commands the AIR pump relay on, the voltage of the control circuit would naturally be pulled close to zero. When the relay is commanded off, the control circuit would have battery voltage present. If the PCM sees a voltage that isn't what is expected, P0412 will set.
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Potential causes of a P0412 code include:
Short to ground on control circuit
Short to voltage on control circuit Control circuit open due to damage, etc.
Open or short on battery feed circuit to solenoid
Open or short on battery feed to relay control circuit
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I'm thinking this relay I put in is either
a)not working or
b) is not a match, or
c) it had been raining this morning when I did the job and was wet inside the bumper. Maybe it's not plugged in all the way or some moisture got trapped inside the contacts?
It did however get rid of P1413 so I'm thinking it's not a match for the original part.
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since I have two of these cars, and the brown one is not pulling DTC's for the smog pump I'll just pull the relay from there and put it in the white car and see what happens
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or just get a tune with overrides for smog pump DTC's
 
Look at this thread even thou its LS check to see if your car has this soloniod right in front of harmonic balancer. They crack and fail. Part 9H465 upper left of pic. http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?89365-Help-with-code-P0412

When you first start car can you here smog pump running?
If not I would take pump out and bench test or if you can jumper power to it in car I do. All I want to do is hear pump run then I move on to other parts.
 
dnsherrill said:
since I have two of these cars, and the brown one is not pulling DTC's for the smog pump I'll just pull the relay from there and put it in the white car and see what happens...
Click to expand...

Better yet, put the suspect relay on the brown car to test it. You don't have to mount it, simply plug it in. Start the car and see if the pump runs for a minute and if it throws any codes.

From what I remember on my '96, there are no codes except for an electrical fault on the secondary air pump circuit. Mine was effectively eliminated with the installation of the cobra manifolds but the pump and all the wiring are still in place and I have no codes.

And I'm pretty certain all these type relays are the same. They are used on a variety of FLM vehicles.
 
correct again Driller, the relays are the same; the air intake and TB on the brown one are currently disassembled for repairs
I pulled the relay from my brown car and tried it in my white car. There was some water droplets in the white car relay connector when I took it apart, so I dried everything out.
I swapped in the known good relay, and......no change, still showing P0412.
By the way, 2 days ago I heard the pump running as soon as I plugged in the two wire connectors with out the relay. Maybe running it without relay fried it? nah
:slam
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at this point I'm pretty defeated, alot of wasted time and energy this weekend. I think I've reversed what the dealer did (plugged pump back in and replaced relay) but I'm still pulling 'new' codes.
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I may go ahead and get a custom tune with smog pump DTC overrides. The smog pump just adds air to the exh mans, right? so will deleting it be harmful to performance or mpg's?
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after i plugged in the 2 wire connectors it ran, that was 2 nights ago and without a relay. that took the DTC's from P1414 to P1413. Adding the relay took it to P0412.
 
Right on the Mark said:
How and the heck could it run without the relay?
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it's possible I'm mistaken on that
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nonetheless, I'm not ready to quit just yet. In a '96 manual it's diagrammed in 03-08 and I'll post pix after work. It's a much simpler system than on the LS noted above here.
The secondary air pump has an inlet and outlet, in from fresh air and out goes to AIR diverter valve just between the radiator and in front of the main crank pulley.
The diverter valve is supposed to have 3 unions:
1)in from the pump,
2)out to the exh mans/cats and
3) one going out to the vac solenoid.
My diverter valve looks like it just has two hose unions: in from pump and out to exhaust.
Does anyone have a picture of their AIR diverter valve for the smog pump to compare? I think 96,7,8 are the same
 
Hope this helps

IMG_20130903_101430.jpg
 
I just don't understand why you are not doing step 1 then taking notes then move to step 2? You still don't even know for 100% that the pump works. START AT STEP 1.
 
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rotm, i can't tell if the pump is running after I start the enigne with the wheel and bumper on.-so maybe that's my answer, it's not running. It's only supposed to be on for about 20-120 seconds I think.
I'd like to identify all the parts, primarily the solenoid- maybe they yanked that off also.
Will plugging the hose to the exh mans significantly affect anything?
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today I called the stealerr to get TRY and get an explanation as to why they removed drivers wheel to put a harness on the pass side. They refuse to answer anymore questions. I then called Ford's national customer relations line to complain. They noted negative feedback for that stealer but can't do anything more for me. Cherokee Ford in Woodstock, Ga is individually owned and they do what they want,to, how they want to
 
dnsherrill said:
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rotm, i can't tell if the pump is running after I start the enigne with the wheel and bumper on.-so maybe that's my answer, it's not running. It's only supposed to be on for about 20-120 seconds I think.
I'd like to identify all the parts, primarily the solenoid- maybe they yanked that off also.
Will plugging the hose to the exh mans significantly affect anything?
--
today I called the stealerr to get TRY and get an explanation as to why they removed drivers wheel to put a harness on the pass side. They refuse to answer anymore questions. I then called Ford's national customer relations line to complain. They noted negative feedback for that stealer but can't do anything more for me. Cherokee Ford in Woodstock, Ga is individually owned and they do what they want,to, how they want to
Click to expand...

Again, pull tire and liner put car on stands have someone start car. Have you hand on pump to feel it run. Go from there. STEP 1.
 
P9030679.jpg
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P9030678.JPG
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on my '96 the vac solenoid is on the drivers side next to the PCV, mine was plugged in
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pulled wheel and fender again, started engine, pump is not turning- it's shot out, or I have an open ground somewhere? or that dedicated fuse is blown?
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before going in for the recall I intermittently pulled a P0411 but none of the other codes
after the dealer I pull a code constantly (every 2nd start after clearing it)
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a new pump is around 130-150, a new diverter valve is around 120, I think the solenoid is not available new, just used.

P9030678.JPG


P9030679.jpg
 
I love how stupid this system is.. all it does is inject fresh air directly into the exhaust to trick the emissions test.
 
designed to fail, per pump location.... this has gotta be one of the easiest $800 repairs the dealer gets away with
 
NOT tricking the emission test what this does is act as a "bellows" and burn things that are not burnt complete. When car is first started its not hot enough to fully combustion burn, some raw comes out exh port not burnt. Just like blowing on an amber to start a fire.
 
couldn't find the dedicated fuse in the pwr dist box per factory manual fuse map; I guess if I get really bored I can put a voltmeter on the line to the pump...should be 12v +/-?....an open ground would make it @4-7v?
 
The thing is not even hooked up on my car. The holes in the manifolds are plugged, the diverter valve is not there, the vacuum line is plugged and the hose from the pump is plugged. I don't know if the pump ever runs. I do have a CEL due to the EGR valve being blocked but I think the only code I have is related to that. I'd have to double check.
 
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