97 mark viii lights not working now car won't start, melted wires, soooo lost

Wiring is a cheap fix, just hard to find sometimes, throwing parts at it will get expensive. Looks like you will need an other new SCIL. I have a few laying around as well if everyone else has run out.

You need wire diagrams and start tracing wires to find out which one is shorted/open causing it to melt. This will not be a quick fix but once you find it, things will go quicker. After the wireing is fixed then change out the SCIL.

I was in the same situation with my old 93 and the VCRM. I kept melting them till I started tracing wires and found the real problem.
 
Yeah to fixing it right, hell no to cutting losses, that's not an option... It's tempting, but I'm nowhere near that yet. I am still at work, I am gonna try plugging the scil back up and see if it will work right and if it does, I'm gonna retry to program the key. If not, I'm gonna order the matching set of ignition stuff and then tear the dash and seats out and see if anything else is shortest. The weird thing is that I drove it Saturday with no problems other than the lights.
 
update... i had a whole story typed up and lost it... just my luck

ok, i had a nice write up and the thing refreshed on me and i lost it...
it was late when i got home but i still worked on it a little bit. i butt-connected the 2 replacement plugs up, plugged the scil up, hooked the battery up and crossed my fingers...
ok, i turned on the lights and they all worked, so then i turned the key to see if the car would let me relearn the key, but as soon as i turned the key, the scil made a little click sound and the lights all went out again and still no theft light :confused: ... i took the key out, the interior lights came on again and i tried all the other lights and they all worked great, so i put the key in again and it did the same thing, all the lights died again. i dunno??
i unhooked the battery again and then unplugged the scil and took of the p/s kick panel and started checking wires and plugs, they all looked great and smelled fine. i went over to the d/s and took the ecm out and smelled it and checked the big plug, it looked and smelled fine. i learned that i have a late 96 model 97... so then i started checking all the other modules and wires out that were in that area and they all looked good too. i pulled the top dash panel off, but didnt see anything really, nothing seemed accesible, so i put it back on... all the wires i looked at looked good, so i just dont see how i could have a short or bare wire anywhere, especially since all the wiring is all nice and snug. does anyone know of any pinch spots for the wiring on the gen 2's anywhere?
i have only owned the car about 4 months and honestly cant tell you if the center tail light ever worked. i had a revelation and started to wonder if the previous owner maybe had problems with the tail lights and started upping the fuse size for the lights till they kept working and maybe, just maybe thats why when the tail ballast burnt on me that it backfed up to the scil and shorted it out along with it. then i started to kick myself in the ass for not checking and verifying that both fuse blocks had all the correct size amp fuses in them...
so thats where i stopped, in the morning im gonna go out there with a printout and check each and every fuse and hope that i can get lucky and find that some idiot stuck too big a fuse in something...
there was 2 relay looking things over by the scil, does anyone know what they are or think i should replace them? i dont have a way to test them and cant find any wiring diagrams to see what they are...
on another note, when i went back to LKQ on Sunday, i explained to the guy what my car was doing and showed him some pics and he told me if bought anything and couldnt get it working with in 30 days, that i could bring all the stuff back and they would give me a refund, so that was pretty good to hear.
the bad thing about getting parts there is that you dont know if they are good or not. the 97 mark viii i got parts off of was not wrecked and honestly looked better than mine, so its possible it had mechanical or electrical problems too, so theres no way to know if the scil i bought was any good or not... i am thinking about going back over there and buying the ecm out of the car if it has one, i didnt check this weekend.
thats about it, not much ground made this evening... but it has to be progress.
im thinking about getting me the power probe short finder next week off the tool truck, so if i have a dead short with the car, i should be able to find it...
any members near me are more than welcome to come check the car out, im open to any and all help... thanks everybody!

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I've read before where the wiring harness gets chafed behind the instrument panel where it runs from the drivers side across to the passenger side and crosses a brace for the dash. Long shot but possible as it sure sounds like you have a switched power feed shorting to ground.
 
thanks for the info, when it warms today up later, i will pull the cluster and check that area out!
 
Before you try the relearn again, check your headlight grounds. They are on the front side of the radiator core support. One on each side, I think with a green headed 8mm bolt. Remove the bolt and clean the area of paint underneath. Reinstall. Are you running aftermarket hid's with a relay kit, or factory bulbs?
 
chargerxr said:
Before you try the relearn again, check your headlight grounds. They are on the front side of the radiator core support. One on each side, I think with a green headed 8mm bolt. Remove the bolt and clean the area of paint underneath. Reinstall. Are you running aftermarket hid's with a relay kit, or factory bulbs?
Click to expand...

He said it was stock everything. Does the OP have HIDs?
 
the lights and hid boxes are stock and old kinda rusty looking, the car is all stock... thanks charger, i will give that a try too.
the only mechanical issue the car has, when its running, lol... is the air filter box makes a weird gurgle sound everynow and then, dunno.
 
its raining here

ok, its raining outside now, sucky eastern nc weather. i started checking fuses, all of them and i had a plan yesterday so i bought a bunch of them from AZ on way home. heres what i found: all the fuses looked like they have varnish on them, so i replaced each and everyone of the micro fuses, well i need about 10 more 10amp ones so i pulled those out and will replace later today or tomorrow after work.
i did find some issues with wrong fuse sizes, it seems there is an issue with the lighting in the past. inside the car, these are the fuses that were wrong:
#1 supposed to be a 10a but was a 30a
#14 supposed to be a 10a but was a 30a
#31 supposed to be a 10a but was a 30a
#32 supposed to be a 15a but was a 30a
#34 supposed to be a 15a but was a 30a
#19 supposed to be a 10a but was a 30a

someone has jack most of the lighting and scil fuses up, maybe they got tired of fuses popping and thats why they got rid of it or maybe the buy here pay i got this from jacked all the fuses up to get it to pass inspection before i bought it... i got it as-is no warranty... it goes to show that if you dont have any manuals and dont confirm that the everything is right in the fuse boxes then you might just almost burn your car down.

im still holding out to hoping that the tail light ballast shorted and since they had the stuff jacked up, that thats why the scil shorted??

also, #32 was blown, i dont know if i missed it the other day, or if plugging in the new scl and replacing the blown #7 fuse popped it?

with the rain, i dont think im gonna get much done, i was looking at the dash, i took the top pad off last night, but how in the heck do you actually take the entire dash apart? anyone done it before?
 
also another possible key piece of info... the other day after i put the new tail light in and the car stopped cranking and the scil and ecm just made the little click sound when i tried to crank it, i pulled out my scanned and hooked to the obd2 and the scanner was unable to connect to the car, i hooked to the car when i bought it so i know that it used to work. also, when i turned the key with the scanner attached, it made my scanner go crazy and all kinds of languages and lines and images came across it... that is why i am thinking i need to possibly buy an ecm... i did learn that according to car-part.com that i have an LSC model instead of a base mark viii, so thats a plus i guess... well, who am i kidding, until it runs again its just a purdy piece of junk sitting in the yard.
 
Gmans being giving advise, it just seems that i have the first documented electrical problem of this kind with the scil almost burning. if i hadn't unhooked the battery when i smelled the wires melting at the trunk, then my car woulda been up in smoke. the insane thing is that i had been cranking it and even took it down the road the other day, i smelled wires but the smell was not overwhelming and didnt increase, i thought it was the old smell locked into the car from the tail light ballast. i am glad i was unhooking the battery though.
i basically had to destroy the old scil to remove the melted plugs, so i can not retry it to see if it will run when i get the fuses right, then the scil i bought was doing right until the 2nd round of the relearn and then it clicked like a little solenoid sound and the theft light went away until i pull the key out, but when i hook the battery back up, all the lights worked until i turned the key to the on spot to try and relearn it and the theft light does not reappear until i take the key out and when i turned the key, all the lights would stop working... its all so strange, whats the likely hood that the scil i bought from LKQ is bad? its 50/50 i guess...
 
dam.... Gman has been giving advice, lots of members have. Thanks everyone that is trying to help a man out!!!
 
ok, i have a couple of people pm'n me with a replacement scil, thanks everyone, this is great of yaw.
I am gonna try and buy one that is a complete set with all the pats stuff since i now have a pats issue and am not sure if i have any other underlying issues. i know the new used scil i bought was doing right until the 2nd 15 minute relearn, but like a kid, i got bored and cleared out the oil mileage reset thing and turned the traction control off, and also played with the lights a little... i know, you can all yell at me now, but i have never programmed anything before and was kinda bored... so i dont know if i locked it out or something, it clicked a few seconds after i pressed the traction control button... i am mad at myself and at my ignorance to this complicated pats stuff, its probably why i have a seemingly useless scil in the car now...
 
4v97viii said:
also another possible key piece of info... the other day after i put the new tail light in and the car stopped cranking and the scil and ecm just made the little click sound when i tried to crank it, i pulled out my scanned and hooked to the obd2 and the scanner was unable to connect to the car, i hooked to the car when i bought it so i know that it used to work. also, when i turned the key with the scanner attached, it made my scanner go crazy and all kinds of languages and lines and images came across it... that is why i am thinking i need to possibly buy an ecm... i did learn that according to car-part.com that i have an LSC model instead of a base mark viii, so thats a plus i guess... well, who am i kidding, until it runs again its just a purdy piece of junk sitting in the yard.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a dead battery.
 
i just manned up to not correctly programing the scil...

my head is held down in shame :slam
 
nah, its not the battery, the clicking is coming from the scil and the ecm, not the started solenoid. the pats has my starter disabled now and the scil i bought wont let me try to relearn it. i put the battery charger on the battery every few days. thanks for input though!
 
I hooked the battery back up this evening after work to put test light on fuses and found out I have no power on either fuse block. I check at battery and had juice and checked at starter and it was hot down there. I scratched my head and unhooked battery again. I unhooked scil and decided to hook battery backup to see if that changed anything, it did, now I had power at both boxes, however I did not have power at #3 pcm on either side. So I'm still scratching my head. I unhooked battery again and got the schematics out and went under the dash. The brake light switch was melted just like the plug in the trunk,so now I know that's why the brake lights didn't work. I also started taking the dash apart and removed the cluster, that was a pain, but all, the connectors and the ignition switch look good... it is not the ecm that clicks when I turn the key, there is a relay under there that is clicking when I turn the key to start. I moved over to passenger side and took the bolts out for the air bag but it seemed to be stuck and will not budge. I also got upside down on the passenger side and looked at all those connectors ad found some black tape going to the switches mounted on the side wall in there, I will try and get picks tomorrow of it, there is 3-4 different wires all spliced together into 1 black wire, so I need to figure out what that is all about. My short finding tool is ordered and should be here next week. I wish I had more electrical troubleshooting experience, I have my hands full. I also started to take the dash apart but I think I'm gonna hold off on that till my tool comes. I already checked the plugs on all the lights when I pulled them out to check bulbs, so I'm thinking I need to check all the plugs that are fed from the scil to see if any other ones got too much juice and fried.
 
If you have schematics, I'm sure you know by now most if not all OEM ground wires are color coded black. If you have wires spliced to a black wire, they best all be ground wires!
 
update

ok, chargerxr hooked me up with a scil and matching ignition with key last week. I finally had the chance to install them and the car would now turn but not crank. It was great that the starter was now engaging though. I tried my scanner and the ecm will not connect thru the obd port. I did google and all the mark viii board searches and only found a few posts where people had issues with the obd. I tried scanning it in all the different gears to rule out the transmission controller like another user had issues with. Then i went and checked fuses and I now have power to all the fuses but 2. One fuse is under the hood and is at location #1 a 10amp for PCM and the other fuse is inside the car and is #6 a 10amp for the starter motor relay. I scratched my head and went back to the laptop. I ended up deciding to go back to the junkyard and buy the ecm off of the 98 they had. I also looked below where the scil is mounted and seen that the multiple wires all going into one ground is a factory deal because this car had the same thing mine has, so i ruled out any one playing with the grounds over there. I came home and put the new used ecm in and it fired right up! I let it run a while and tried scanning it again, but it still will not connect to the scanner. The port has power because it turns on the scanner, its just not connecting. Well, i got back on the laptop and it said to let the ecm relearn some stuff, so i let it idle for a while and then took it down the road. The dam thing tried to overheat on me! I was like holycrap... evidently the thermostat stuck or hung up from sitting the past month? It overflowed coolant out of the plastic reservoir, so i let it cool and then did the burp thing opening the crossover tube and it took all yesterday and some today for getting it right, i finally went about 10 miles up the road with it tonight and the car seems to be fine, i now need to replace the o-ring cause outlet tube is now leaking even thought its tight. The car still will not work with the obd port, but so far it is running pretty good and the scil smells fine, i left it sitting where the glove box goes, im gunshy on the wiring now and am still unhooking the battery and i now have a fire extinguisher onn the passenger floorboard.

Does anyone have any ideas about the 2 dead fuses? Is the PCM the same thing as the ECM? I know one means powertrain and one means electronic, i replaced the one that is by the pedals on the driverside, so does anyone have any insight to the pcm not having any power, possibly a ground issue, where its located at? Or the starter motor relay?

If its drivable with out risk of destruction, then the obd port will only screw me up when inspection time rolls around because they have to hook to it to do the testing.

The car starts up fine and other than a very slight hesitation/stumble every now and then, its seems normal.

I did look at 2 mark viiis at the junk yard, the parts car and a customers car... it seems that my car has some aftermarket hid lowbeam headlights because neither or the 2 had the silver ballasts like mine. Also, my low beam is now out on one side, so i'm gonna swap them around and see if it moves to the other side.

Well, thats about it for now. I hope all the right people read this and that i get some more great help! This has been a roller coaster but now at least i can drive it down the road.

My last question for everyone here is... do you think its ok to drive? I am contemplating driving it to work tomorrow and it at least a 22 minute ride going 60mph. It would let me see if i got all the air out from the boil over and if maybe i need to replace the thermostat...

Also, major props to everyone helping me out, THANKS!!!
 
update

ok, i have put about 150 miles on it since last week. it still has electrical issues, but the car is drivable. i may post a new thread or just keep this one going. the center tail light i bought is bad, i had to replace the melted brake pedal switch and it was a pain being upside down trying to get the new plug in, but i got it done, i tested power at the plug in the trunk and i have it when the pedal is pressed, i can live without the center light, i hope the inspector will miss it.

ongoing issues... engine fuse #1 is still dead,pcm keep alive memory. i cant pull codes because the scanner wont connect, will have to fix b/c state inspection due.

instrument panel fuse #6 is dead, it says starter motor relay, car starts fine though...

also engine fuse #3 for the pcm eam pump??

:confused:
the car is running good as new, feels great like it always does. i did have to burp the cooling for 2 days to get the air out of it, but i have put over 140 miles on it and its stayed in the middle of the gauge. i got it up to 90 for about a mile and had it at 80 for 2 miles to see if it was gonna heat up, it didnt.

if anyone has any insight into the obd port issue, please help. the port will power up my scanner, but it will not put codes, it hangs on the connecting screen and never connects. that is my key concern because the obd2 inspection is due by the end of this month.

i have an idea of running a jumper to the #1 fuse to power up the keep alive memory just to see if it will allow the scanner to connect... it will not be permanent, just a temporary to get my car to pass all the readiness tests and then to be scanned... if it works, i may have some codes pop up.
anyone have any thoughts on this?

also, i ordered the ect2000 shortfinder on the tool truck, but it hasnt came in yet, so all im working with is a harbor freight scanner and test light.

thanks again.
 
4v97viii said:
if anyone has any insight into the obd port issue, please help. the port will power up my scanner, but it will not put codes, it hangs on the connecting screen and never connects. that is my key concern because the obd2 inspection is due by the end of this month.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem on my 01 Town Car, ended up being a fuse somewhere. Sounds like you have checked every one though.
 
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