Supercharger...

Someone used to offer a clutched supercharger as part of an OEM kits a long time ago. I forget who it was.

If you do want to bypass boost all you got to do is not press the gas pedal as much. Or another way to do it, like if you dont want any chance of the supercharger building boost. On the drivers side of the Kenne Bell there is a boost bypass valve. There is a set screw there that if you open the bypass and then lock it down, the supercharger will not build any boost and the vehicle will run like a normal N/A vehicle. This is called the valet feature. It is not be as quick as a supercharger clutch assembly but it accomplishes the same thing.
 
right - you want the supercharger turning all the time - but if you do not want boost you simply shunt the boost away from the intake. Same with Turbos.

Remember - the SC internals can spin upto 11k rpm, turbos much higher. You can't go from 0 rpm to 11k rpm using a clutch - it doesn't make sense to use a clutch.

it looked good on Mad Max though.... ;)
 
94m5 said:
1: Yes it will fit, but not under the stock hood.
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very cool. I was toying with the idea of a forward facing 4" cowl, for clearance issues, and to make a ram air and part time air cooling setup. Would it fit under there, that is if thats what i decide.
 
Quik LS said:
right - you want the supercharger turning all the time - but if you do not want boost you simply shunt the boost away from the intake. Same with Turbos.

Remember - the SC internals can spin upto 11k rpm, turbos much higher. You can't go from 0 rpm to 11k rpm using a clutch - it doesn't make sense to use a clutch.

it looked good on Mad Max though.... ;)
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A PD roots might only spin to 11,000 rpm's (twin screws to bout 18,000) but allot of the centrifugals spin well past 50,000-60,000 rpms. Smaller turbo's will spin past 100,000 rpms. Talk about fast! If any type of charger were to be used for this sort of thing it would be best to use a centri because it has allot less initial mass to start moving. Even though the internals may spin allot faster it should still take less belt or clutch grip to start it spinning. The clutch could probably take the initial hit of the grab, but the serp belt would get ate up pretty quick. Plus it would be allot of wear and tear on the gripper plates inside the clutch. A/C clutch probably spins the little ac pump to about 9,000 rpms and does fine doing it, but we would kill those little buggers if we put the stress of a supercharger on them. hehe. This one is best left to mad max and the movies like Quik said. Anyone remember the direct bottle nitrous injection in those movies too? hehe. What is that, like a 900 shot? lol :eek:
 
rocket5979 said:
That might be one of those OEM pieces I was talking about. Of course tuning for one of those would not be too fun. The car would be really doggish when the charger turned off due to no boost and less timing advance and running rich at the rails. I am curious to know how Daimler-Benz did their setups?
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it would have to have two computer settings, one calibrated when its off, and one calibrated when its on.
 
MrWilson said:
it would have to have two computer settings, one calibrated when its off, and one calibrated when its on.
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That is understandable. I am just curious how they set up the electronics for that. How they wired it I suppose is what I am saying. I am getting more and more interested into the electronic side of things and that is one area that always sparks curiousity within me.
 
The entire S/C on off deal is being done by Benz on there Kompressor cars. Main problem when you turn off the S/C you have to have a bypass. If you stop the blower then no air will get by it and it will snuff out the engine. You need some form of diverter to let air bypass it, more problems than it is worth in my book.

I found this S/C kit looking around on the web for a setup for my Mark VIII.
http://www.allen-superchargers.com/racekit.html
Uses a very efficient blower and has an intercooler too. A bit pricey but, I don't have enough time to make my own kit or castings so I am thinking about this :confused:
 
2002WRXSTi said:
The entire S/C on off deal is being done by Benz on there Kompressor cars. Main problem when you turn off the S/C you have to have a bypass. If you stop the blower then no air will get by it and it will snuff out the engine. You need some form of diverter to let air bypass it, more problems than it is worth in my book.

I found this S/C kit looking around on the web for a setup for my Mark VIII.
http://www.allen-superchargers.com/racekit.html
Uses a very efficient blower and has an intercooler too. A bit pricey but, I don't have enough time to make my own kit or castings so I am thinking about this :confused:
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thats a little crazy, it also doesnt look like its worth the money they are asking for it. Looks like it was made by a home mechanic.
 
rocket5979 said:
That is understandable. I am just curious how they set up the electronics for that. How they wired it I suppose is what I am saying. I am getting more and more interested into the electronic side of things and that is one area that always sparks curiousity within me.
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My guess would be that a lot of the electronics would be similar to the displacement on demand that they have devoloped for their chrysler division.
 
actually is not a bad price for all that. That includes the air-to-water incooler as well as all that custom manifold design.....
 
MrWilson said:
thats a little crazy, it also doesnt look like its worth the money they are asking for it. Looks like it was made by a home mechanic.
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Although I agree it is on the expensive side, I don't think it looks like anything a garage mechanic would throw together. The Lysholm screw compressors are not cheap at all so that is most likely the reason the price is way out there.

The Vortech would be cheaper but a screw compressor will have boost at any rpm. That and the Lysholm is a very efficient S/C without the IC.

All in all I am keeping this on my possibilities list :shifty:
 
2002WRXSTi said:
Although I agree it is on the expensive side, I don't think it looks like anything a garage mechanic would throw together. The Lysholm screw compressors are not cheap at all so that is most likely the reason the price is way out there.

The Vortech would be cheaper but a screw compressor will have boost at any rpm. That and the Lysholm is a very efficient S/C without the IC.

All in all I am keeping this on my possibilities list :shifty:
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yeah, its one to look at, but i would realy have to see some real world results in person before i would shell out that kinda money when i could save 1000 and go with kenne bell
 
MrWilson said:
yeah, its one to look at, but i would realy have to see some real world results in person before i would shell out that kinda money when i could save 1000 and go with kenne bell
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I actually just looked at the Ken Bell systems to do a comparison. They are listing the Allen Supercharger system on the Ken Bell page :confused:
 
k, since there isnt a boost shut off redily available, i was thinking...say you got ^^ that supercharger...you get one pully for 6psi, and one for 16. You have your motor built to handle the 16, but the catch is, you have a duel program computer chip, one set to handle 6psi, and one to handle 16. you switch out your pullies, and switch programs...vwala. Would that work?
 
MrWilson said:
k, since there isnt a boost shut off redily available, i was thinking...say you got ^^ that supercharger...you get one pully for 6psi, and one for 16. You have your motor built to handle the 16, but the catch is, you have a duel program computer chip, one set to handle 6psi, and one to handle 16. you switch out your pullies, and switch programs...vwala. Would that work?
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I have a piggyback computer on my WRX that has 4 different switchable programs on it. Basically for different boost levels but also for different octane ratings too.

On the 93 pump gas one I pulled 380awhp and on the C16 map I pulled 405awhp. I haven't had this Lincoln long enough to really start seeing what I can do with it.

Back in the 90's I used to do tons of Vortech kits on Mustangs. Matter of fact we were able to pull over 1000 crank HP out of a 5.0. It was in one of the Fast Fords or Mustang mags back in the day. So now I get to play with a 4.6 and see what I can do :D
 
2002WRXSTi said:
I have a piggyback computer on my WRX that has 4 different switchable programs on it. Basically for different boost levels but also for different octane ratings too.
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so your saying, yes that would work?
 
MrWilson said:
so your saying, yes that would work?
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Yes it would work if there is a piggy back computer or a standalone computer for it. I don't think there is but you can never tell what is out there these days :confused:

I have a DFI programmable ECU that we used to use on Mustangs and Corvettes all the time. If the Mark VIII just has the ECU handle the engine I could use it. However that one does not have switchable maps. The newer versions might but I have not checked into them for years.
 
http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/

4. Dual program custom chip with stock switch for $375 (for n/a engines) or $390 for s/s engines. This chip can be switched between the two new custom programs and the stock setting.

i was thinking of that
 
MrWilson said:
http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/

4. Dual program custom chip with stock switch for $375 (for n/a engines) or $390 for s/s engines. This chip can be switched between the two new custom programs and the stock setting.

i was thinking of that
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Interesting, this is a nice site on these engines and cars to me as I am so new to the 4.6. I would have to say yes on the Dual Program stuff as that would be almost the same as my piggyback ECU. Main difference being that I can reprogram mine with my laptop.

I like how they have the Allen Supercharger kit with the Eaton S/C for a G less too but, it make less boost so less HP. I already have one of these Eaton blowers laying around so i wonder if it would really be cheaper to try to build a kit using there manifold and stuff :confused:
 
2002WRXSTi said:
Interesting, this is a nice site on these engines and cars to me as I am so new to the 4.6. I would have to say yes on the Dual Program stuff as that would be almost the same as my piggyback ECU. Main difference being that I can reprogram mine with my laptop.
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Well, the early marks are OBDI so you cant use a laptop to tune them, you gotta tune the chip and then put the chip in. If you have a 97-98, i believe you can use a laptop on them. dont quote me on that
 
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