Need your immediate assistance PLEASE PLEASE.. Im at my wits end!!!!

96_Lincoln_LSC

96_Lincoln_LSC

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I have done my best to correct this issue.
here is what happened and what was done.

1. driving home from work 42 mile, hot day, turned on AC. got onto a main highway, heard a noise, looked at guages, seen the temp was lets say boiling over. Car got so hot the car turned it self off. just tapped the key to make sure it didnt seize. it cranked.
2. Dropped 3 gallons of coolant somewhere. no leak visible no steam on motor
3. inspected the overflow bottle cap, seen the rubber gasket has bad seal.
4. Buddy brings me 3 gal of water, let the car cool off 1.5 hours. add water fill through filler cap not res bottle.
5. drive car home and it boiled over in the driveway.
6. let car cool off another hour or so.
7. fill system from fill tube (cross over - from now on i will say fill and its always from fill tube plug not res bottle.)
let it idle, so much pressure it blew a hose
8. replace blown hose and the rest just for peice of mind.
8.1 do a block test (hydrocarbon in coolant test (Negative Result)
8.2 do a pressure test on coolant system 15 PSI held no issues for 30 min even started car and no change
9. removed thermostat
10. fill the system (see line 7)
11. car runs hot and fan does come on about the R-O range in gauge. take for test drive and when i get home the saftey cap on res bottle is seeping some water.
12. fill the system again. run it let it sit and then fill again.
(I have repeated this process for over 1 and half week not getting better, Still seems to be a ton of air in the system but its not leaking anywhere )
13. emptied system replaced t-stat(yes t-stat is correctly inserted i checked and doublechecked before re-connecting any and all hoses.. filled with antifreeze run the car, runs hot, let cool and then re-fill again
13.1 Pulled all 8 plugs to verify that 1 wasnt cleaner then the rest. they are all evenly wearing. does not seem to be coolant in cylinder.
14. today 6-5 replaced water pump. sparkplug wires and flushed entire system for 60 min. system was ice cold, drained system and then refiled with 2.5 gallons of new antifreeze. also did oil change as its been a while.
took for a spin, car got hot again. im now allowing the system to cool down at this time of this post. will check fluid level and top off with fresh antifreeze.

MY issue is this just how much F'n air is trapped in this system and is there any other test im missing, is there any other way for air to get into the system, could i still have a bad cap or could the pressure be so great its forcing the cap to allow a little coolant to escape.
Where do i go from here. i know swapping the water pump means i have allowed all of that dead space again into the coolant system but is there a fast way to get this resolved or even a slow way but a sure way to get it to settle down... i use this as a DD and have to work on it after i get home from work every day.

PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME.....
anyone local to Bristol PA (Philadelphia Area) that can offer up some help psychically ?

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
After you fill the system you need to bleed the air from the fill plug. Do not keep filling it up. Get the car nice and warm. Turn off engine, let set for several minutes, just loosen the fill plug enough to allow the air to escape. Tighten the fill plug. Repeat and allow the car to go thru several heat cycles before you bleed the air out of the system. Do not allow all the pressure to escape or else you could be letting more into the system. Once the spitting of water stops you should get just water escaping only. You should be done. You may need to do it several times before all the air is out of the system.
 
i had this same problem long ago with my gen 1. turned out to be clogged radiator with damaged pipes. not enough cooling flow. also check your heater core isnt leaking or clogged.
 
cooling

94m5 said:
I see nothing about testing for a clogged radiator.


Check that my friend.
Click to expand...

may have missed it scanning, but make sure temp on climate control is high so coolant is circulating heater core when filling
 
Cdr Cody said:
may have missed it scanning, but make sure temp on climate control is high so coolant is circulating heater core when filling
Click to expand...

Coolant always circulates through the heater core in these cars, regardless of the climate control setting.
 
racecougar said:
Coolant always circulates through the heater core in these cars, regardless of the climate control setting.
Click to expand...

you are correct there is no vacuum valve to turn it off.

Radiator does not appear to be clogged, its my last ditch part to replace.. may have been clogged with oil when the gasket failed several months ago.. but this just happened many months later and all of a sudden like there was a catastrophic failure.
 
So you couldn't get it to run cool without the thermostat either. That's a problem. A monkey could bleed the system with no thermostat. You appear to have studied the process for bleeding. Yes, with the thermostat in it can take several cycles but without the thermostat you should have no trouble bleeding it the first time. It should not run hot without the thermostat. On a hot day the temp could get well into the normal range but the fan should keep the temp within the normal range.

I think it all points to a clogged radiator.
 
i used the "shop-vac reverse flush method" 3-4 years ago and completely fixed my cooling issues, after trying to reverse flush the system with garden hose pressure i got a decent amount of crap out,but not happy that i got it all i decided to keep the garden hose reverse flushing and then put my shop vac on it too and it sucked SO EFFING MUCH CRAP OUT it was amazing. (remove t-stat to do this)

Not sure how others on here feel about this,but it did wonders for my car.

If anyone has any "warnings" on this method,please speak up before he tries it.
 
sprocket said:
It should not run hot without the thermostat.
Click to expand...

If the bypass isn't blocked or deleted it will. The stock cooling system absolutely needs a thermostat in place to operate correctly. With the thermostat removed, the bypass will constantly recirculate hot coolant through the engine.

I agree that the symptoms do point to the likelihood of blockage in the radiator.
 
racecougar said:
If the bypass isn't blocked or deleted it will. The stock cooling system absolutely needs a thermostat in place to operate correctly. With the thermostat removed, the bypass will constantly recirculate hot coolant through the engine.

I agree that the symptoms do point to the likelihood of blockage in the radiator.
Click to expand...

I have two 96's. I have run both without the thermostat. The first I ran without the thermostat because it was back when I didn't know about using a thermostat with the wide port. So I took it out to see if it would still run hot without the thermostat. It didn't and I drove it that way for a few months. It always ran very cold.

The other one was overheating when I bought it and had a head gasket issue. To see if it would overheat no matter what, I again ran it without a thermostat. Actually, it has a thermostat, but the center is completely cut out. That way I can use the O-ring. I'm still driving it that way and it seldom comes off the bottom of the normal range. If it is hot enough out and I am doing a lot of stop and go, then yes, it will get into the center of normal or maybe even above center just like any other Mark would do on a hot day with the thermostat already open.

I understand the open bypass theory but all I can tell you is what I have seen in two different Marks driving both for several months with effectively no thermostat.

I now have a thermostat in one car, but not the other because I just haven't gotten around to it and I don't drive it much.
 
My Ice car has been running for 500 miles now without therm. (or so i'm told that its out) No problems at all. I also run gutted therm in Red dragon so I can use O'ring like above.
 
I've been thinking about this. With the thermostat closed, coolant flow to the bottom of the radiator is blocked. The coolant therefore takes the only other path which is though the engine by way of the bypass hose. With the thermostat open, the coolant takes the path of least resistance which is now through the lower radiator hose and through the radiator. Having no thermostat or one with the center cut out is the same as having the thermostat open all the time. The coolant takes the path of least resistance which is though the radiator. The radiator cools the coolant and flows it back through the engine. With no thermostat or a thermostat always open the coolant is never prevented from going though the radiator and therefore never heats up much unless it is a hot day and the engine is under load.
 
We've had very different experiences then.

sprocket said:
I've been thinking about this. With the thermostat closed, coolant flow to the bottom of the radiator is blocked. The coolant therefore takes the only other path which is though the engine by way of the bypass hose. With the thermostat open, the coolant takes the path of least resistance which is now through the lower radiator hose and through the radiator. Having no thermostat or one with the center cut out is the same as having the thermostat open all the time. The coolant takes the path of least resistance which is though the radiator. The radiator cools the coolant and flows it back through the engine. With no thermostat or a thermostat always open the coolant is never prevented from going though the radiator and therefore never heats up much unless it is a hot day and the engine is under load.
Click to expand...

Coolant flows out of the radiator at the lower hose, not into the radiator at the lower hose. With the thermostat closed, coolant in the radiator loop is not allowed to enter the engine. Instead, coolant circulates through the engine past the back of the thermostat via the bypass hose. When the thermostat opens, it closes the bypass port in the thermostat housing and opens the port at the lower radiator hose, allowing coolant to flow from the bottom of the radiator into the engine. Without a thermostat in place, the coolant "inlet" at the lower driverside of the engine will draw from both the radiator loop and the bypass loop. On a stock engine with little load and moderate climate, you likely could drive along without a thermostat without a problem, but a properly functioning thermostat will do a far better job at regulating temperature.

I feel like we're getting way off track in regards to the OP's problem here.
 
I have not had issues with this radiator since I put it in 4 years ago and then all of a sudden now its overheating (lets say running at the very top end of the Normal range) normal operating is usually in the middle of the gauge. I did last night try something else, I bought a coolant bottle cap from Autozone after determining that the factory cap was compromised (rubber seal bad) after installing this new cap, bottle sealed but when I squeezed the hose it always sounded like air was passing back and forth from the cap into the bottle. I assume that there shouldn't be any air allowed to pass so I was under the impression, so I went to the local bone yard and found 2 newer factory caps, now when its installed I no longer hear that air passing sound when squeezing the hoses.. I hope this may have been the source of air going back into the system.. Will keep you all updated. and I have also read somewhere that the overflow (degauss bottles) are self bleeding. meaning air trapped in the top of the radiator is supposed to be forced into the coolant bottle from the pressure of the rotation of the water pump pushing coolant into the radiator. allowing the bypass hose to pull coolant from the bottom of the bottle back into the system eliminating air.

Stupid question???
If when this system is in good working condition, if you were to open the fill tube on crossover, what level should the coolant be at , all the way to the top of the plug, or lower then the full height of the tube? when I have added coolant, and opened the fill port, I have noticed that the tube is not completely full and allows me to add about 2 more cups of coolant. then I reseal it and make my trip to work..
 
96_Lincoln_LSC said:
Stupid question???
If when this system is in good working condition, if you were to open the fill tube on crossover, what level should the coolant be at , all the way to the top of the plug, or lower then the full height of the tube? when I have added coolant, and opened the fill port, I have noticed that the tube is not completely full and allows me to add about 2 more cups of coolant. then I reseal it and make my trip to work..
Click to expand...

Mine will be up to the fill cap when running. It will shoot out 2 foot in the air if it's not running. Mine also will not get past the "A" in normal no matter how hot it get's outside....thermostat has never been remover, still original. Wish I could be more help but never had any overheat problems with this car.
I would like to know what the fix is whenever you figure it out tho.
 
Bill I never had any issue with my car until one day when it was warm out the temperature started spiking. I pulled over on the expessway and then shut it off and the coolant spilled out of the bottle. Problem was the rad cooling fan was toast and seized up. I know you have been through all of it but maybe just go back to the beginning and start over step by step, sometimes we get lost trying everything in desperation and miss a critical piece of info.

Good luck I hope you solve it soon.
 
96_Lincoln_LSC said:
Stupid question???
If when this system is in good working condition, if you were to open the fill tube on crossover, what level should the coolant be at , all the way to the top of the plug, or lower then the full height of the tube? when I have added coolant, and opened the fill port, I have noticed that the tube is not completely full and allows me to add about 2 more cups of coolant. then I reseal it and make my trip to work..
Click to expand...

You should never remove the fill plug when trying to bleed the air out of the system. You are allowing more air into the system. If you need more coolant you need to add it at the reservoir. The cross-over tube is for bleeding the air out of the system only.
 
Isnt this plug removed for filling the system? and as far as bleeding, I should just crack it and allow some trapped air out then close it and never open all the way? maybe im confused, the documentation I have researched state I should never open the degauss bottle after its filled and only fill from the plug... maybe Im doing this wrong.
Thanks for all your help

as this is still running hotter then I think it should, Im still looking for suggestions.
 
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