Mod Grocery List Item #3 - HID Lighting

joegr said:
That is 100% wrong. The assemblies look similar. They are not at all the same. The reflector is different, and the ballast is built into the HID assembly. It's not in the halogen assembly.
Where did you get your information from?
Click to expand...

...ok listen, i dont just type random things that pop into my head...and for once i would like everybody to do the same. I hate being called out, especially with no sort of counterpointing evidence... SO EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION.

...2 years ago i wanted to upgrade my gen1 headlights to gen2 [they look better IMO]...found out i would have to change alot more then just the headlights - more like the bumper, the wire harness and a bunch of custom work...well i dint want to get into it. HOWEVER, i had already picked up a set of 2003+ GEN2 halogen headlamps for like $100 from a local junkyard...now they sit in the garage. But i work at an auto parts store par-time [when im not in school], CARQUEST, so before i completely gave up i had done alot of research, and been to FORD about 50+ times.

Im pretty sure the housings are the same, and the biggest difference is the lack of a ballast for the halogen wire harness... PETE im not sure about the shield for the HID bulbs like you posted earlier, so im not gonna say if that is different or not. So the only thing i can do is to show my "evidence" and let you all decide for yourselves...









...and here is the link to the HID ballast on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003...t-BALLAST_W0QQitemZ250380390519QQcmdZViewItem

...I dint mean to sound like an a**hole, and i dont mean to offend anybody, BUT...chances are, if im going to take my time and say something here on LVC...i probably am pretty sure that im right. I dont know alot of what the rest of you guys know, especially QUICK ..and PEKTEL knows his stuff too, but do me a favor and keep the criticism to a minimum unless you are 100% about something.

With that said, im done with this whole HID debate...i got stuff to do... my only advice is this...TRU if you want to see better at night, get some HIDs, yes, it may be a little brighter for everybody else, but IMO its not that bad - so too bad for them, i personally have never had a problem driving opposite white HIDs, its the blue/purple ones that suck. Good luck to you...i might snap some pics of mine and if i do ill post them.
 
So maybe an acceptable alternative would be to put some Silver Stars in the car instead of going HID. I will readily admit that I allowed myself to get caught up in the "coolness" of HID. And I guess my eventual mod-list signature will not be as distinguished for the LVC board.
:(


TRU
 
silverstars = crap ...had them too [fogs, highbeams and lowbeams]...they look good when they are working, but i was replacing a bulb about every 6 months...and at $50 a pair thats alot more expensive then my $65.00 hids [which have a lifetime warranty]...

...but TRU, dont get confused, a plug and play HID kit would NOT require you to change anything inside your factory halogen headlamp. You would ONLY have to change the harness if you wanted to install OEM HIDs [which are probably outrageously expensive]. A plug and play kit would plug directly into the factory h11 plug and you would only have to modify the dust cap so u could run the wire out to the ballast and then back into the housing. Easy as can be. Just wanted to set the record straight.
 
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Long_Island_LS said:

...ok listen, i dont just type random things that pop into my head...and for once i would like everybody to do the same. I hate being called out, especially with no sort of counterpointing evidence... SO EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION.

...2 years ago i wanted to upgrade my gen1 headlights to gen2 [they look better IMO]...found out i would have to change alot more then just the headlights - more like the bumper, the wire harness and a bunch of custom work...well i dint want to get into it. HOWEVER, i had already picked up a set of 2003+ GEN2 halogen headlamps for like $100 from a local junkyard...now they sit in the garage. But i work at an auto parts store par-time [when im not in school], CARQUEST, so before i completely gave up i had done alot of research, and been to FORD about 50+ times.

Im pretty sure the housings are the same, and the biggest difference is the lack of a ballast for the halogen wire harness... PETE im not sure about the shield for the HID bulbs like you posted earlier, so im not gonna say if that is different or not. So the only thing i can do is to show my "evidence" and let you all decide for yourselves...









...and here is the link to the HID ballast on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003...t-BALLAST_W0QQitemZ250380390519QQcmdZViewItem

...I dint mean to sound like an a**hole, and i dont mean to offend anybody, BUT...chances are, if im going to take my time and say something here on LVC...i probably am pretty sure that im right. I dont know alot of what the rest of you guys know, especially QUICK ..and PEKTEL knows his stuff too, but do me a favor and keep the criticism to a minimum unless you are 100% about something.

With that said, im done with this whole HID debate...i got stuff to do... my only advice is this...TRU if you want to see better at night, get some HIDs, yes, it may be a little brighter for everybody else, but IMO its not that bad - so too bad for them, i personally have never had a problem driving opposite white HIDs, its the blue/purple ones that suck. Good luck to you...i might snap some pics of mine and if i do ill post them.
Click to expand...

I don't post random thoughts either. I do have both assemblies, and clearly you don't. They are different. The reflector is different. Also, it is impossible to design one assembly that is legal for both bulb types. The light comes out of the HID bulb at a different point and in a different spread pattern than it does for the halogen bulb. This is why all HID refit kits are illegal for street use in the USA or most/all of Europe.

The ballast from E-bay is not stock, of course it would fit the halogen harness.

The plastic housing does not equal the reflector.

I never said that every single part on the assembly is different. Only some of them are different. That makes the "assembly" different. No two ways about it. It be the same as arguing that the V6 LS is exactly the same as the V8 LS because the both have the same hood.

Go and get a real HID factory assembly and take it apart and you will see what I mean. Or maybe you are too invested in being wrong to do that now.

Let me say this one more time. The reflector is different. You don't even have a HID assembly to look at, but yet you some how just know that it isn't.
If you are going to use that kind of logic, then I guess I am wasting my time here!
 
Long_Island, you've taken a ton of time to post all the info and pics in this thread. I can't thank you enough. :yourock:

It really wasn't my intent to start a huge debate or disagreement over this. I will humbly admit (and have in several other threads) that I don't have any experience with most of the mods you guys are running on your rides.

I do apologize if I've upset or frustrated anyone with any of my postings here. I found myself getting frustrated and confused because there were so many differing opinions/advice/experiences that it made it difficult to try and make a determination on what should be done. That's nobody's fault but my own. I asked for all of your input, and you gave it willingly. I don't want people to feel like they wasted their time if I'm the butthead that just can't seem to figure out what I should do.

I guess I'm just trying to do the best I can with the resources and knowledge I have (or lack thereof) to try and make my new ride my own. It may seem like I don't know that much about cars, but I've worked on them for over half my life. I just didn't know that much about the LS' and I didn't want to just jump into the deep end of the pool without trying to know what I was getting into. I do know that I actually enjoy this car more than any other car I've owned - camaros, trans-ams, grand prix gtp, etc. Are there better cars out there - no doubt. But this seems to be the best car for ME and I can't help but get excited about making it just the way I want it.

So please forgive me for being a bit over-zealous in the mod-research department. I know I've made a bunch of you experts spend a lot of time replying to my threads/questions. Please don't think that I don't appreciate it - I really do, maybe even more than I tried to convey. Good boards like this where people really want to help each other are hard to find.

Thanks again for your time,

TRU
 
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My understanding is this, in order of least effective to most effective lighting:

1- halogens are going to be your base output.

2- HID bulbs in your halogen reflector housing are going to up the amount of output, but the focus is off, so there is a lot of unneccessary light (the scatter that lights up the trees and road signs and the like).

3- HID bulbs in a halogen housing with HID shields are going to eliminate a lot of that unneccesary light, but still keep the necessary light where it needs to be.

4- projector HID retrofit. This will give you the most light by far, but is the most difficult of the modifications to lighting.

I left the HID reflector bowl out of the picture, because you would need to swap the entire assembly for that.
 
Long_Island_LS said:

...ok listen, i dont just type random things that pop into my head...and for once i would like everybody to do the same. I hate being called out, especially with no sort of counterpointing evidence... SO EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION.

...2 years ago i wanted to upgrade my gen1 headlights to gen2 [they look better IMO]...found out i would have to change alot more then just the headlights - more like the bumper, the wire harness and a bunch of custom work...well i dint want to get into it. HOWEVER, i had already picked up a set of 2003+ GEN2 halogen headlamps for like $100 from a local junkyard...now they sit in the garage. But i work at an auto parts store par-time [when im not in school], CARQUEST, so before i completely gave up i had done alot of research, and been to FORD about 50+ times.

Im pretty sure the housings are the same, and the biggest difference is the lack of a ballast for the halogen wire harness... PETE im not sure about the shield for the HID bulbs like you posted earlier, so im not gonna say if that is different or not. So the only thing i can do is to show my "evidence" and let you all decide for yourselves...
Click to expand...

Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.
Long_Island_LS please ignore this since you already know everything without having ever seen an LS factory HID assembly.

For the rest of you who might be wondering, here are some pictures of the reflectors. First is the reflector on the HID assembly, and second is the reflector on the halogen assembly. The pictures aren't very good, but you can see the different patterns of the reflectors. What you can't tell, since the pictures are 2D and not 3D, is that the reflectors are slightly different shapes as well. The difference in the bulb shield is pretty clear though.
 
The pictures didn't post. They're too big. Here they are at low quality.
HID then halogen.

HID_small.jpg


Halogen_small.jpg
 
joegr said:
I don't post random thoughts either. I do have both assemblies, and clearly you don't. They are different. The reflector is different. Also, it is impossible to design one assembly that is legal for both bulb types. The light comes out of the HID bulb at a different point and in a different spread pattern than it does for the halogen bulb. This is why all HID refit kits are illegal for street use in the USA or most/all of Europe.

The ballast from E-bay is not stock, of course it would fit the halogen harness.

The plastic housing does not equal the reflector.

I never said that every single part on the assembly is different. Only some of them are different. That makes the "assembly" different. No two ways about it. It be the same as arguing that the V6 LS is exactly the same as the V8 LS because the both have the same hood.

Go and get a real HID factory assembly and take it apart and you will see what I mean. Or maybe you are too invested in being wrong to do that now.

Let me say this one more time. The reflector is different. You don't even have a HID assembly to look at, but yet you some how just know that it isn't.
If you are going to use that kind of logic, then I guess I am wasting my time here!
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me?

The first pic, the one that says the wire probably goes here, the wire dont go there. What wire would go there? Its a breather, I have one on my Gen one headlight unit!

Look next to the high beam, it has one also!

Look a the way the bowls are ribbed in those pics. That defines the difference.
 
Bottom line for me is this -

If I can find some type of Casper shield that will work with the H11 and H10/9145, I'll get PnP HID kits.

A couple of people have mentioned HID Retrofits, but has anyone here done that on their LS, and if so, how much did it cost?

If neither of the above is feasible and/or reasonable in cost, then my "punt" option is to try and find the best Halogen bulb upgrade I can for all 3. I believe JWerner2 mentioned some type of Xenesis bulb, and hopefully he can shed a little more "light" on the subject (yep, pun was intended).

TRU - currently in the dark about my lights (sorry, couldn't resist)
 
So JWerner2, you have HID's in your low-beams and the Xenesis in the fogs?

Did you do a retrofit of some type for the HID's in the low beams?

Curious mod researchers want to know.....


TRU
 
Playa, that's 814 clams JUST to get the headlight housings - I don't think it includes ballasts, bulbs, etc. If that indeed is the case, then you're looking at well over a grand to upgrade to HID going the factory route. :eek:

TDub, if you go out to YouTube and search on HID Projection Headlight Construction, you'll see several videos (one is a 4 part) on how to retrofit a projector into a halogen housing. It's fairly involved, but if you got the time, tools, skillz, and most importantly, guts it is doable.

Personally, I think we're kind of on the "bleeding edge" of where HID is going. I'm really thinking that the aftermarket companies will start to accommodate some type of shielding for the different bulb types. There's already some out there for H4 and 9006, so this could just be a matter of time. You could try to make your own (Pektel is giving it a shot), but I'm content to wait and see if a company turns out a product that will take care of the issue.

I think I've researched this mod type more than any other for my ride, and I've come to the conclusion that screwing up my lighting is not something I want to do. I'm not as worried about getting tickets, but more of actually decreasing my visibility and affecting oncoming traffic. I do think we'll be able to do this in our halogen-based LS' the right way - it's just gonna take more time.

So, I may put Silverstar Ultras or Xtravisions in mine for now (may look at Nokya as well). But I know I'm set on doing HID ONLY if it can be done the right way, and that will require a shield on the bulb.

Good luck,

TRU
 
Tru-Blu said:
Playa, that's 814 clams JUST to get the headlight housings - I don't think it includes ballasts, bulbs, etc. If that indeed is the case, then you're looking at well over a grand to upgrade to HID going the factory route. :eek:
...

TRU
Click to expand...

The $407 price each is for the complete assembly. The assembly includes all the bulbs (HID low beam, halogen high beam, turn signal, LED parking light) and the ballast. There is nothing extra to buy. (It also includes the HID reflector that some here don't think exists.)
 
Thanks for the clarification, Joe. It's still a hefty pricetag to upgrade to HID, but I agree that would ensure that it's done right. I wonder if the harness is any different and if so, would that have to purchased separately to do this?

TRU
 
Tru-Blu said:
Thanks for the clarification, Joe. It's still a hefty pricetag to upgrade to HID, but I agree that would ensure that it's done right. I wonder if the harness is any different and if so, would that have to purchased separately to do this?

TRU
Click to expand...

There is an extra rib on the connector. All you have to do is to shave it off, no need to replace the harness in the car. (Disclaimer: I haven't done this, but I have researched it. I have also compared the HID and non-HID LSes that I have.)
 
Tru-Blu said:
So JWerner2, you have HID's in your low-beams and the Xenesis in the fogs?

Did you do a retrofit of some type for the HID's in the low beams?

Curious mod researchers want to know.....


TRU
Click to expand...

I used them for that pic to show how well they match.

My 04 Toyota Highlander has a retrofit kit from Xetronics and requires the same low beam bulbs as the LS which is where that kit came from.

Im getting the low beam Xenesis cause like joegr said, its not that impressive in a non hid housing at all.

I can see better without the scatter at night than with the HIDs. In the Highlander since it sits so high its a different story.
 
So JW, you'd recommend the Xenesis in the Low-beam and Fog-lights, then?

Any data on how reliable the bulbs are? Am I looking at the same range as a Silverstar Ultra, or is it better?

Thanks,

TRU
 
100X's better than those garbage bulbs! I havent had mine long but within the amount of time I had mine I had those cheap trash bulbs blow on me in the past for no reason. Those that didnt faded quickly!

Someone in another forum said the first release had problems but are ow way better and very reliable.

If you want one step above for halogen I say Hoen, if you want one step below which is also a great bulb I say Nokya.
 
Does anyone have issues with HID kits and the auto lamp function. I want to upgrade the lows and fogs but it's not worth it to me if I have to turn the headlights on and off myself. I have this issue on my Mark VIII but don't really bother me since it's not a daily driver.
 
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