is the trans guy full of SHlT?

aggiestckl

aggiestckl

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Alright,
I have the 45mph shudder. Everyone on here has said try to get a trans flush. I called a local shop about getting it flushed and he said alright. I brought it in and told him about the shudder and he said the flush should fix it. Well i call back 3 hrs later and he said that he checked all sensors on the trans and said the fluid "is not that badly discolored" and he didnt charge me and said that he didnt want to flush it because he knew it would not help the shudder. He said if it doesnt drive me crazy to just drive it how it is. I asked him if he thought it was the torque convertor, he said no, he thought it was the clutches and quoted $1060 for a complete rebuild.. Does this sound right? Shouldnt the flush fix the shudder problem? Is he saying the flush will not work with alterior motives other than what he says "not performing the work cuz it wont help?" anyways id appreciate feedback.. is it the clutches in the trans or what? Ive been askin about this alot i know but i dont wanna throw money out if its for the wrong thing... thanks alot everyone
 
It's the lockup clutches in the torque converter that flash over and result in the shudder. It may take a few hundred miles after a flush to see the results since the clutches are actually saturated with contaminated fluid. Ford TSBs recommend Mercon V changed at 20K intervals as the first fix. If the shudder fails to go away or returns prematurely, they recommend replacement of the torque converter as the fix.

Buyer beware, a 'true flush' done at a dealer shop will be with a special cleaning additive in the system prior to replacement of the transmission fluid. A lot of quick lube places(not all) advertise transmission 'flushes' that are nothing more than a transmission fluid transfusion.
 
Yeah, do it at a Ford dealership. It will be more money but you know it's done right.
 
Sometimes when you change the fluid in the trans and the torque converter, it is a death blow to the trans, especially if it has been many miles since the last fluid change. But if you are prepared to have the trans repaired at some point, might as well change the fluid and see what happens. I agree with Driller to make sure you go the extra step in the flush job.
 
driller said:
Buyer beware, a 'true flush' done at a dealer shop will be with a special cleaning additive in the system prior to replacement of the transmission fluid. A lot of quick lube places(not all) advertise transmission 'flushes' that are nothing more than a transmission fluid transfusion.
Click to expand...

JP is that special cleaning additive that the dealer puts in actually good for our trannys, no harm done in the long run?
 
You can also put in a pint of Seafom tranny conditioner to be sure before you get most of the old sludge out before you get your tranny flushed.
 
JoeyLincolnMK8 said:
JP is that special cleaning additive that the dealer puts in actually good for our trannys, no harm done in the long run?
Click to expand...

A clean tranny is a happy tranny.

I keep hearing the story of failed transmissions after a fluid change and I have heard quick lube places ask when the last fluid change was done and actually turn down work if the maintenance was questionable. IF the transmission has been neglected for 100,000 miles or more with burnt fluid, etc... there may be truth to that wive's tale. Simply because the risk is loosening all the accumulation of crap that then closes vital passages, blocks the suction screen, etc... much the same as a blood clot lodging in the brain and causing a stroke.

On the flip side of the coin, if you pull the pan and no sludge, varnish or foreign particles are present and the oil is bright(or even a dark red) with no burnt smell and brownish color... you should have no concerns that changing the fluid or other maintenance is going to be a death blow to your tranny.

So, pull the pan and make your own call based on what you know of the vehicle's past maintenance and present fluid condition.

The cleaning additive is most likely a simple petroleum distillate. It is unlikely to cause any harm. There is special equipment utilized and special procedures followed to assure equal dispersant and sufficient hydraulic force to effectively clean the transmission of old contaminants. IMHO I would only opt for such procedure if the tranny exhibits persistant shudder or other symptoms of contaminated fluid. This is by no means a cure all and certainly not something to take the place of proper maintenance such as a transmission cooler and scheduled fluid changes.

Also keep in mind no treatment or fluid change is going to repair a mechanical condition. It may be possible to 'rejuvenate' seals and glazed clutches, even open clogged passages and such, but treatments or additives cannot replace burnt clutch material or mend broken parts.
 
if you pull the pan take time to install a drain kit. install it in the side of the pan not the bottom. will pay you later when you want to change the fulied. well worth it to keep from spilling flluid all over. jd
 
I've never seen a Drain kit available for sale...
Do you know where they can be found?
 
driller said:
IF the transmission has been neglected for 100,000 miles or more with burnt fluid, etc... there may be truth to that wive's tale.
Click to expand...
It is well documented. I have had 2 trannies fail after fluid and torque converter change. I was even begged NOT to do it by a buddy in the business of vehicle repair. The NEW fluid is too slippery for the clutch packs that have been used to a 'grittier' fluid.

I was advised to never change the torque converter fluid at the same time as the pan fluid. Do one or the other. Might be a wive's tale but if the trannies been neglected, better off leaving it alone. Imho, of course.
 
I have a copy of the TSB related to the Trans-converter shudder. The TSB says the shudder should be "under light to moderate acceleration above 35mph while in 3rd or 4th gear or on 3-4/4-3 shifts. This may be due to temperature related automatic transmission fluid breakdown." "If vibration or shudder occurs only in 1st or 2nd gear, or when brakes are applied, then it is not torque converter shudder."

These are the rest of the instructions:
3. Drain all transmission fluid including the toque converter. Completely drain the cooler and cooler lines. Refer to the appropriate model/year service manual, section 07-01, for more details.
4. Remove the transmission pan and clean the pan and magnet.
5. Inspect the transmission gasket and filter. Reuse the pan gasket and filter if they are not damaged.
6. Reinstall the transmision filter, pan gasket, and pan.
7. For vehicles operating in mostly stop-and-go traffic, areas of high ambient temperature and humidity or the previously listed states, install a new transmission fluid cooler and transmission fluid cooler installation kit. Refer to instruction sheet included with the installation kit for details.

1993-1996 Installation kit - F3LZ-7K177-AA
1997 Installation kit - F7LZ-7K177-AA

8. Refill transmission with the proper amount of Motorcraft MERCON V or equivalent.
9. Not applicable to MKVIII
10. Road test vhicle at normal operating temperature to verify repair. If shudder is still present, vehicle may have to be driven up to 50 miles for break-in. Torque converter should return to normal operation.

1993-1997 Transmission fluid cooler - F8LZ-7A095-AA
Motorcraft Mercon V - XT-5-QM


Hope this info helps.
 
Oh, by the way. The list of states, is

Alabama
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Louisiana
Mississippi
North Carolina
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
 
I can confirm everything said here from the fix from FORD working and the rumor that changing your fluid after 80,000 miles of neglect will kill the tranny. I have had both happen. The first time I had the shudder (VERY Light) I had my fluid changed at a quick lube place. It died 2000 miles later, I understand that the new cleaning solutions and friction modifiers broke loose the 'varnish' on the torque convertor and clogged up the filter making my pump suck air that baked and killed the pump... This is my understanding and "might" be wrong.

With Ford's method they actually clean the system with a chemical prior to changing out the fluid. When they do this they also change out the filter, drain the cooler in the radiator and other things to avoid the above problem. All this fixes the problem.

Mike
aka NightSky
 
IMHO,all auto trannys suck. give me a 5 or 6 speed!!! yeah when I first bought my 1987 Turbo Coupe I had the tranny fluid changed at jiffy lube and the tranny lost 2nd gear as soon as I left, I converted it to 5 speed manual.
it was alot easier to do than it is on a Mark VIII
 
I'M in this situation right now, I figured since the Trans is out you mind as well just replace all clutches and TC and do a complete overhaul.
 
one other option if you know the fluid is very old and are not readyt to do a tranny killing flush,as a temp fix to see if it helps ,add a bottle of trans shudder fix fluid,it add friction modifier to your fluid and may give you a few more years(at most) of good service,if your fluiddoesnt look to bad,get the flush and cross yuor fingers .

good luck
 
On a higher mileage car, you really shouldn't change out the converter and pan fluid at the same time. One or the other spaced out a couple of months. If you do the converter, save the pan fluid and vice-versa. And you should always add a friction modifier. IMHO, it can't hurt and only help.
 
when you guys say shudder are your reffering to the chattering noise I'm hearing at 2k?
 
One other point about dropping the pan is that you can also replace the tranny filter at that time. This is one of the biggest reasons that you should have your fluid completely drained, which includes the torque convertor. Plan on about 14 qts @ about $4.00/qt plus another $20.00 for the filter and drain plug kit (B&M). Get the better (not cork )gasket. Be aware that alot of Ford shops don't stock Mercon 5, and will use Mercon 3 instead so you have to really lock them down and have them prove to you that that is what they used. Of course the least expensive way to go to insure a good job is to do it yourself as it is not hard to do.
 
brentalan said:
Yeah, do it at a Ford dealership. It will be more money but you know it's done right.
Click to expand...

+1 besides being expesive, fords warranties their work. When I had mine changed at 60 I had a very hard shift first to second, So hard it chirped second in a conti at WOT. Took it back and told them, they took it in right away and looked it over and reflushed it for free. They said it was probably a piece of something stuck in their. When I had it flushed and filter changed at 90k same problem, they looked it over and flushed it again for free. PITA yes it was, but well worth it.
 
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