Double DIN Installation Proceedure w/front factory tweeters

Lincoln LS

  1. Geldtron

    Geldtron Active LVC Member

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    Where did you find the Front Amplifier???
    I hooked up a After Market Deck a couple years ago.... and the tweeters never worked after that. I assume that I simply never hooked it up. But never came across a good explanation as to why... until now!!!
    But from this write up... and pics... I still am not sure where its located.
    Info Pls?
     
  2. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    The amplifier is under the dash, just to the left of the steering wheel, but why does that matter? There's no reason to get to it. The audio input for it and the control wire are on the eight pin connector behind the radio, the same connector that has the audio input and control wire for the subs.
     
  3. Geldtron

    Geldtron Active LVC Member

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    O ok. Perhaps I misunderstood how to hook it up.
    I've been having issues with my deck staying on, specifically when I hit pot holes or bumps in the road. It turn off then back on again immediately. So I need to fix that, and when I do I'll take a peak at the tweeters hook up.
    I'll tear it apart when I get a warm weekend and some tools. lol
     
  4. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    Did you solder the wires?
     
  5. regiment1

    regiment1 Dedicated LVC Member

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    To back up joegr's implied suggestion here: I was warned on this board to solder instead of use butt connectors when repairing my seat wiring, but used the connectors anyway. I had to go back and completely re-do the work with solder connections after a year or so because the butt connections worked loose.
     
  6. Mr.Howie

    Mr.Howie Active LVC Member

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    Getting factory wiring diagrams from alldatadiy.com.


    Some of you guys have it right and some are confused about the stereo install. If in doubt with any of these connectors wiring or locations, go to alldatadiy.com and purchase a one year subscription to you car that includes factory wiring diagrams, locations, connector views with pin out labels. These will be the Ford factory manuals that you will have access to. It is well worth the money. If you are too cheap to do this, drive a cheap car!
     
  7. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    Alternately, you can go here
    http://www.helminc.com/helm/welcome_retail_lnc.asp?Style=helm
    and purchase 72 hours, one month, or one year of on-line access, or purchase the printed manuals. These are the factory service manuals and diagrams that the dealers use.
     
  8. lincolnelite

    lincolnelite Well-Known LVC Member

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    funny, the LS is a cheap car. Look what's it worth now. You could by a service manual on a CD on ebay for $5-$10 and it also includes other cars by Ford on that same year. They are the same exact copies of my 2 volume hard bound copies of Continental and Explorer.
     
  9. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    Cheap to buy (now) - expensive to maintain.
     
  10. Geldtron

    Geldtron Active LVC Member

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    I didn't solder them, but i did twist them and then use "heat shrink tubing" - then wrapped them in electrical tape.
    I just tore it all out, played with the wires - got it to go "off n on" once - but couldn't reproduce it after that.
    So I shoved it all back in there and I will see during the next couple days if it does it again during my drives to work.


    Back to the topic of the Front Amplifier for the tweeters....


    Joegr ||| The amplifier is under the dash, just to the left of the steering wheel, but why does that matter? There's no reason to get to it. The audio input for it and the control wire are on the eight pin connector behind the radio, the same connector that has the audio input and control wire for the subs.

    The only 8 pin connector I could find was the one for the "Rear Amp". I was under the impression that's all it connected, does it also connect the "Front Amp"??
    If so how? The adapter that came in the KIT only had 1 set of RCA wires which are currently hooked to the REAR amp(see pic) - but since I have subs... that amp is actually disconnected at the moment. They sounded like **** with the subs. But since the ground is very connected to the ground wire the Head Unit.... the wiring kit remains.
    I know its a mess of wires..... but hopefully it helps?
    Messy.jpg
    Messy2_Subs.jpg



    The write up dictates having to cut some factory wires and some how wire them to the RCA wires from the "FRONT OUT" off the Head Unit....which is why I was wondering where it was. (see below)

    26) Connecting the factory front tweeters to the aftermarket double DIN system will require finding the Right and Left input wiring to the factory front amplifier mounted under the steering wheel/dash area (has off white plastic with aluminum heat sink 4” X 2.25” in size). Connect two RCA cables R & L from the aftermarket radio Front RCA output terminals. Disconnect green connector from the front amplifier and access the wires that go into pin 1 (Left channel + ) and pin 2 (Right channel +) and pin 3 ground for both channels. Cut all three wires two inches away from green connector and connect the RCA Right (red) wire to connector side grey wire, connect RCA cable Left (+) white wire to connector side white wire. Connect both RCA cable shield grounds to the bare wire from pin 3 of green connector. Insulate all 3 wires then reconnect to amplifier. After connecting turn on radio and make sure that the speaker in the left side of the console is Right channel and the speaker in the right side of the console is Left channel.

    I can't find any other sort of wires that I believe would the "Front Amp"
    If you know of a better pic or thread that details this. pls help because i wasn't able to find a better thread than this one.

    Messy.jpg

    Messy2_Subs.jpg
     
  11. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    That will never be reliable. Your other options are:
    1. Solder - most reliable.
    2. Crimp - reliable only if you use good connectors and the correct crimp tool.
    3. Wire nuts - least reliable, but still more reliable then just twisting the wires together.


    Only one of those RCA connectors is for the subs. The subs are mono, so there is no left and right, so they only need one RCA.
    The other of those two RCAs is for the center channel speakers. They too are mono. Most aftermarket headunits don't have a mono center channel output. You can pick left or right for these center channel speakers. Either they won't sound right for the driver or for the passenger, depending on which channel you pick. The adapter should also have had two amp turn-on wires on it, one for the subs and one for the center channel amp. There's no need to cut the factory wiring for this. I did connect the center speakers this way on my 04 when I put a Pioneer deck in it. However, I made a summing cable that combined the left and right outputs from the front pre-outs to drive the mono center channel input. It worked, but I didn't really like it.
     
  12. 05LSV8GUY

    05LSV8GUY Active LVC Member

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    Wow, he only twisted them together, thats just asking for a short, to fry equipment or start a nice cozy fire under your dash, not permanently connecting them by either of the three ways Joegr listed (leave the wire nuts to home wiring) is just dumb, especially in a electrically sensitive car Like the LS is.

    Heat shrink tubing is NOT meant to hold wires in place, its purpose is to insulate, seal and protect the wire. Wires that are not permanently joined if put under pulling stress will and can rip the tubing and tape apart, or if the shrink tubing isnt the proper size it will simply slide out of the tubing.
     
  13. Geldtron

    Geldtron Active LVC Member

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    Ya. I really want to tear it all apart this summer and solder them. I'm decent at soldering so I'm not to worried.
    I had no idea that's how that worked, pretty sure I never saw that explained in any other write up in my search 2/3 years ago when I first installed it....
    What if I picked up 2 "Y" splits for the RCA? Could I then Have my left /right channel for the center tweeters?
    Space is a bitch... so i know its gonna be tough squeezing them in there... But I would like to try.

    I'll have to see if I can find more info about that 8 pin connecter and find out which color is the 'Front Amp' turn on wire.
    In the above pic(s) - I'm 90% sure the 2 blue wires connected by the Wire Nut are the Amp Turn on wires for the sub, Safe to assume once I find the "turn on wire for the front amp" - I'll just have to wire it together with the sub one?
     
  14. Geldtron

    Geldtron Active LVC Member

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    Umm... as I said... I also wrapped them in electrical tape... I didn't rely on heat shrink tubing explicitly... the wrap job is very tight... none of those wires were lose at all when I checked my connections about the "on off issue". So Not really worried about a short or electrical fire.

    Also the wire that you can see being "bare" - I hoked up a volt meter when I first installed.... they are dead wires with no amperage coming through them.
    1) is the "dimmer" wire for the stock deck - worthless since aftermarkets dont use them and they have their own brightness settings. (perhaps I should tape that one off)
    2) 2 blue ones wired together from the 8 pin connector - can't recall what they are for but they had no amperage on them.
    3) 2 black ones wired together... both ground wires... that became useless with an aftermarket head unit.
     
  15. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    sub_center_conn.jpg

    sub_center_conn.jpg

    sub_center_conn.jpg
     
  16. 05LSV8GUY

    05LSV8GUY Active LVC Member

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    I didnt read into your post much, just what joegr wrote, I have seen a few headunits that still use the dimmer input, but that should be just a quick signal fire when the headlights are switched on, but it never hurts to cover bare wires.

    I honestly have never heard of grounds becoming useless with an aftermarket headunit, some units require them to be grounded as well, but those grounds are there for a reason, i think i tied 2 or 3 grounds together when i installed my HU in my LS, and i have had 0 issues. Not sure of thats the answer to your issue, but grounds never become useless in my experience.

    I dont remember for sure but if im not mistaken those are remote turn on signal wires for the factory amps, they will never have current unless the radio is feeding them current. But they require a voltage drop from the 12V the HU fires down to a 5V fire or the factory amps will "pop" when the headunit fires the amps.
    Some Factory system (not sure if the LS is this way) allow signal to the speakers, even without the amp turning on, but unless the amps are fired u will never get the full power the speakers require, and some people dont know that too low of power to speakers can also cause negative effects like over powering them can.

    EDIT: Brightness settings on a HU are technically different than the dimmer, the dimmer (automated) turns the brightness to say 1/2 of your original daytime setting, just making it less of a hassle than turning your brightness down manually, every time it gets dark, or turning it back up as it gets brighter during the day. Its just there to save u the headache.
     
  17. 05LSV8GUY

    05LSV8GUY Active LVC Member

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    I shouldnt have used the word dumb maybe, not the best choice of words but how do most people trim the black tape they use, most dont cut it they stretch it till it snaps, to get the length they desire, which means that that black tape virtually adds 0 stretch resistance even paired with the heatshrink.
    If tape is wrapped around the wire, then what the intended stretch strength is relying on is the adhesive, which will act like a coiled phone cord when stretched, and black tape exposed to prolonged heat, starts to re-liquify the adhesive, and at that point the adhesive of the tape has reached its failure point, it will no longer hold itself together
     
  18. Geldtron

    Geldtron Active LVC Member

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    I totally agree, but from what I recall when doing my research prior to installing the deck... the "wiring harness kit" has multiple grounds as its not designed for 1 HU, its designed for 1 car and a BRAND of HU's. Some having more ground wires than others. My deck however only had 1. I probably could have just wired them into the mess of other ground wires, but they come from the car side of the wire harness not the HU. Those grounds should essentially be "useless" in my case.
    Your right there as well, I now remember that "pop" and this being the solution. They look to be in positions 4 & 8 as per Joegr's img post (Thanks!!). So That should be what they are for, but as noted. I have the "rear" amp disconnected. And my subs amp "turn on wire" is the "shiny" blue see-through wire that connects down to the wing-nut. Should it ever disconnect... my subs will just stop working. Now that I should be able to figure out this "front amp" connection... I'm sorta glad I only used a wing nut!

    Thanks for the help guys! Much appreciated.
     
  19. 1LoudLS

    1LoudLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    the reason I would recommend against this practice is because positive voltage is not all you need to test for, some cars could use resistance or data signals down the wires and those shorting out could cause major issues. always insulate unused wires, also the wire may say something on it but be a totally different wire in some circumstances.

    well kinda, and kinda not.

    first a lot of aftermarket decks do have an illumination wire, which is nice because it will dim the unit so it is not blinding at night, some also allow you to have certain colors in the day and different colors at night. there are plenty of cars where the actual (labeled or color code)does not function right and the "dimmer" wire actually works

    now with the LS, the OEM radio does not get its signals of when to light the buttons and how bright through the normal illum and dimmer wires, it gets them through the data bus. so in this application they are useless can can even be pulled out (i do like pulling unused pins out because every wire you don't need just makes it that much neater and cleaner, giving oh course that your not gonna need that pin later)

    if the amp turn on wire coming out of the radio ever cam disconnected and that wire touch any of the metal back there it will damage the radio and that wire will stop functioning.

    sorry, the LS worries me more than most other cars with small things like this becase of how little space there is back there, all of the tucking, cramming, and stretching can easily pull apart most types of connections
     
  20. lincolnelite

    lincolnelite Well-Known LVC Member

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    What I don't like about this 8 pin connector is that the factory sub amp and front amps both have left and right audio inputs and this limits the usability of the 2 channels provided by the the aftermarket HU.
     
  21. 1LoudLS

    1LoudLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    but thats the thing, no it doesn't.

    the center channel speakers are a CENTER CHANNEL... they are neither left or right, just like a 5.1 surround sound system at you house, very very few headunits have a center channel output, and the ones that do , it its a single output (discrete channel) which is exactly how it is designed

    same with the subwoofer, every single aftermarket radio that actually has a subwoofer output, it is only one discrete channel, yes there may be two connectors, but dont let that fool you into thinking that you radios has stereo sub channels (also plenty of radios with sub out do only have one connector) most radios have a pair because up until recently, mono amps haven't really been super popular. most people were just going with one two channel amp and bridging it or actually just running it in stereo mode to a pair of subs. so again exactly like the factory designed it.

    and if you don't have a dedicated sub channel and you are trying to use the stereo rear outputs, well then that is just a mistake of cheapening not buying the right radio with the features that you needed.

    also the fewer connectors behind this radio the better, there isn't a lot of extra room back there...
     
  22. joegr

    joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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    Yes, I am unsuccessfully having this debate with someone with an app radio that only has four pre-outs (left and right, front and back) and wants to use an external four channel amp and hook up the factory subs and sub amp.
    We're going in circles...
     
  23. 1LoudLS

    1LoudLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    lol well I was just getting to how the AR3 needed to be setup to make that work but SOMEBODY filled up his inbox!!!


    long story short, he either gonna have to lose fading ability by having the front two channels drive all four of the 4ch's inputs (doesn't need splitters, there is an internal switch for two channel input) OR he is going to have to wire it up for high level inputs from the radios speaker wires, which isn't really a big deal, since that specific amp was designed for high level inputs only on their own radios, and the newer version added RCA inputs with a multiplier circuit...

    the rear inputs are selectable, they can be switched over to a dedicated subwoofer output, which is controlled by a sub level setting in the menu.

    best option there, either hook up the sub amp to the sub channel, then run high level inputs to the power pack/4ch or he can get a different radio, one that was designed for more complex systems like the one he is trying to create...





    one more reason I cant stand the App Radio line of units... hell every radio sony makes over $100 has three sets of outputs, pioneer cant get their sh!t together, and give you a dedicated set of rear and sub outputs!!! there is no excuse for this for a $500 radio to not have this... hell even my $350 AVH-X3500BHS has three damn sets of outputs, how do you go up in models and lose features?
     
  24. lincolnelite

    lincolnelite Well-Known LVC Member

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    I guess you miss my point, the wire harness at the trunk has both left and right wires, the 8 pin prevents you from running 2 audio signals in the rear or front. Some HU allows you to switch the sub woofer to be just ordinary rear speakers, now if that's the correct way to do it is more of user preference. Some people prefer different kinds of sound, more vocals or bass or just plain flat or just to figure what the HU can do.

    True that there's no real stereo in a subwoofer but it's only true for frequencies below 50hz, anything beyond that will yield some enhanced stereo effect.
     
  25. 1LoudLS

    1LoudLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    no i do get what your saying. but the system was designed the same way as all high end systems should be. if your going to reconfigure your system that much outside of the norm. then you really shouldn't have a problem adding a wire to meet your needs. are you adding an amp for something other than a sub system back there?

    yes, the reason those are selectable, is for totally different uses, one is a full range speaker set up (or high passed), the other is just a sub, there is really no preference here, just exactly what you are doing... your either setting up a sub system, or your not. then you make your setting based off of that.

    that's only true if you are talking about a non sub woofer channel, freq has nothing to do with yielding some enhanced stereo effects, the actual recording having a different signal between left and right is the only thing that can have any kinda of stereo effects. (not going into DSPs.)
     

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