car is messed up

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ponytail john

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Hi all, First, I have a 93 Mark with 69,000 miles and ran great until I stopped for some lunch in a strip mall two days ago and when I tried to start it, it backfired and ran like s**t and barely ran like on 4 cylinders. I had it towed to a fix it shop and after a few hours they called me and said that the primary cam chain jumped a tooth or two and they didn't have the tools to fix it which they said cost about $400 so I guess it's off to the Lincoln dealer tomorrow. I'm hurting too much to mess with it myself so I will see what they say, I won't tell them what the first place said. This place charged me $85 just to tell me what they think it is so I hope the Lincoln place will at least have a better answer. It just seems strange that it would jump a tooth or two because it was running great when I parked it. I even suggested to the shop the crank and cam sensor but the owner said they checked out O.K. Oh, I put a scanner on it that I have and the only thing that popped out was Mass Air Flow sensor voltage too low. I changed that but didn't change anything. What do you guys and gals think? Thanks for any help.:)
 
Sorry, I have no answer for you, I just hope that it turns out to be something simple like the crank sensor. Would the chain really skip like that? Good luck!
 
Thanks, you would think that I would hear something funny when shutting down but everything was normal. When I started it almost sounded like I had open headers, wouldn't take the gas and no power brakes, really weird. Hopefully something simple that the Lincoln dealer comes up with, too nice a car to part out if the tab is outrageous but I will think positive.:)
 
I think you MAF is disconnected or dirty - something, somehow, could have got caught in the sensor. This would explain the poor running and reading you got for sure.

Timing chain, unlikely but possible. I really hope not! There could be a lot of potential damage. Getting a new engine might be cheaper!
 
The bad news: The most common time for a belt/chain to slip is when you shut the car off. When the engine is running, the crankshaft is constantly pulling on the chain. When you shut it off and the crank stops, it goes slack. If the camshaft has enough inertia and the chain is loose enough, it can jump a few teeth.

The good news: I've never heard of a chain failing on these engines. And at that low mileage, it seems especially unlikely. It's more likely to be a bad sensor or possibly a broken valve spring. That does happen every now & then on pre-96 engines, and it'd explain the backfiring and other symptoms.
 
That's what happend on my 95 LSC engine, chain jumped a few teeth, I was hotlapping it at the track though. More than a year later the car is still sitting outside, i'm slowly parting it out. Get the compression tested.
 
When I talked to the Lincoln dealer a 8 this morning and explained that my car was getting towed there and I explained what happened and I suggested that it might be the crank sensor the woman manager said no that it's probably the idle air control valve and it didn't take her any time to come up with that either. Now, I'm hoping that she's right because if the first shop had the right tools they would have tore the front of the engine off which they said was like 6 hrs. to fix the bank that they thought that the chain jumped the sprocket so I would have been about $1500.00 lighter. We shall see and I will post what the outcome is.:) Oh, When I had the car towed to my house first and I put the scanner on it and it came out that the air flow mass sensor had a low voltage reading, I replaced it with a rebuilt one $108 compared to a new one $300 from Advance, I know but they are close to where I live and didn't make a difference but when I scanned again, 111 came up so no codes showed and thanks again for the replies.:)
 
"I would have been about $1500.00 lighter. We shall see and I will post what the outcome is."

I dont know about you state, but here if the shop fixes something and the problem it was brought in for is not solved but the work done, you don't pay any labor.

IAC, could possibly be. Did you apply gas? If you did apply gas, and the problem continued, it will not be the IAC as IAC affects the car at idle - usually. Keep us updated!
 
Yeah, I gave it gas and it reved but after like the third time starting it would just run a few seconds and die, no difference whether giving it gas just like throttle not connected. I'll post the outcome and I sure hope the woman manager was right seeing she was just going on what I told her. The repair shop actually had the car there and I will wait to see what the Lincoln dealer says before going back to the repair shop but probably won't get any kind of refund, they will say that it costs money to just look at the car, oh well.:)
 
It looks like the first shop was right about the chain jumping a tooth or two. The Lincoln stealer called this afternoon and said all the electrical checked out and that it was two cams not in sink so valve covers and the front cover to come off tomorrow. At least I'll get the upgraded tensioners, that's what I told the person who called that I wanted so I'll have to tell them again tomorrow when they call. I should get some kind of price range too because I couldn't get any kind of figure today. Will keep posted:eek:
 
Well they generally HAVE to give you a quote to proceed, unless you signed something. The dealer may charger you a lot, i.e. too much. Let us know before you say "do it" to the dealer. Timing a car is no fun and you need the tools, but you can do it for less then $300 with tools and new tensioners. Also, if it jumped just two then you may be okay, if they jump too much then you end up with bend valves :(
 
Unity, I hope it didn't jump too much to bend some valves, dam, this is bad enough. The stealer won't be able to give me a quote until maybe Monday, as long as they can get someone to at least work on my car, sitting all day yesterday (Friday) without someone working on it. The manager said that the day before the electrical tech. worked on it and found nothing wrong so now the mechanical tech will work on it after he finishes the jobs he's working on now. I asked if that is the only tech. they have but got no answer so will have to wait what they come up with and how much damage. My body isn't cooperating with all the pain so doing it myself is out of the question plus I'd have to buy the two tools which are like $200 a piece. :(
 
My body isn't cooperating with all the pain so doing it myself is out of the question plus I'd have to buy the two tools which are like $200 a piece.
Click to expand...
and it is in no way a fun job
 
As of today, (Friday) my Mark is still at the Lincoln dealer which makes like 10 days and they still don't have a clue of why it's running like it is. The only way they can keep it running is by disconnecting the MAFS and keeping it above idle with the throttle, it will not keep running otherwise. I brought them the original MAFS and a spare brain that I had and no luck still. Their big machine is broken down so they can only use the hand held scanner like I have and kicks out the same code, Mass Air Flow Sensor voltage low. At least it isn't the cam chain jumping a couple of cogs like they originally thought. The tech has owned a 94 a couple of years ago but never had any kind of engine problems so he is still scratching his head and I would say that he is not working on it full time either because when I brought him the spare brain he was working on a Navigator so the time still ticks away. He had the exhaust dropped, put different plugs in etc. so hopefully I may have some good news soon or maybe he might just say to get it the hell out of there.:D
 
damn dude... that is weird. 2 MAF sensors and 2 ECM's did not work. then it has to be "possibily" a relay or some electrical failure somewhere.
 
that's actually the way my '95 ran when the cats clogged up. But I'm sure the dealer would have found that out. I just unplugged the O2's and the exhaust was able to escape through there. I still don't think that's the problem considering the code though. I'm surprised the dealer of all places can't figure it out! Just drop a junkyard engine in it and be done with it.
 
Yeah, but what if it's in the wiring, my engine only has 69,000 miles. I don't think it's the engine probably some sensor or relay failure or combination of both even though it was supposed to be checked out. When I saw the car yesterday the exhaust was dropped at the headers so the exhaust wasn't the problem. Before they closed the manager left a messege on my machine saying that she wanted me there Monday to talk, it didn't sound good so they will probably want the car out of there. She (the manager) said that the tech had his head against the wall and that they don't have the right equipment so that is probably where they are going with this but she should have said that on the phone so at least I would have the weekend to find another place to bring it which I'm doing anyway just in case. Oh well, what can you do.:(
 
Did you have the car at a Ford stealership or an Actual Lincoln Dealership?

If you had it at Ford then the next place I would look at taking it to is a Lincoln-Mercury dealership. The thing that I learned recently is that the people at Ford dealerships are a pain to deal with, and the people at Lincoln-Mercury dealership are polite and easy to deal with.
 
Hello there,
I have two Lincolns that have done the exact same thing as yours.
I changed every sensor, intake gaskets, checked the timing chain spent over $1200 trying to find the problem.
What was wrong with my car's (and I'll bet it's what's wrong with your car)
is the main computer has gone bad, it's just above your left leg.
Drop the panel that covers it and pull the plastic clip that holds it in place
undo one bolt in the middle of the plug-in and it's out.
I spent a 125 dollars for a used one and that cured everything!
good luck ED
 
You can test if your ECU is working or not by putting the key in the ignition and putting it to the setting right before it starts the car. The CEL should come on, it if doesn't your ECU is fried. I still think the chain jumped a tooth or two because your symptoms are exactly what happend to my car. Another small possibility is that you fried the engine harness wiring.
 
Thanks guys for all the input, as of today the Lincoln dealer has had my car for 13 days. I brought a spare computer to them that I knew worked and that was not the problem so this morning the tech that is working on my car is going back to thinking that the chain jumped a couple of teeth but offered to tare it down and if that is not the problem I still pay for the work. I talked to this other shop close to the Lincoln place and told him of what is going on with my car and he said that the Lincoln place is always sending cars to him to fix. He said that he has equipment that will tell what the hell is wrong with my car in a short period of time not 13 days like the Lincoln place. So it looks like tomorrow it gets towed to this new place, it will give the Lincoln guy to put back the original CPU and the new MAFS otherwise it would have gone today. Can't wait to see the bill for this nothingness that they did and hopefully they didn't f**k something else up that wasn't broken.:(
 
I went through the same issues when my car jumped a tooth, took it to two different Ford dealerships and they couldn't figure out what the problem was for weeks. They ended up breaking the EGR tube on my car.
 
Who finally figured it out? I guess Ford wouldn't admit to breaking the EGR valve tube either. Hopefully it was fixed right and not costing an arm and a leg.
 
Well the 2nd ford dealer hinted that it might be the chain but they weren't positive. I never did get the motor fixed, the car has been siting outside for over a year now. My problem is that the shop who installed my under drive crank pulley welded it on there and it will not come off so it's impossible to take off the front timing cover to confirm that the chain jumped a tooth. The only other possibility is fried engine wiring harness but I was told you need to take out the motor to change that. I've pretty much given up on my 95 LSC since I have a few other Mark VIII's.
 
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