Big Mike's Audio Overhaul Progress Thread!

Big Mike

Big Mike

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So, this afternoon, before I headed to the beach with my family for some grillin' and chillin', the UPS fairy (well, idk his preferences, but still) brought me birthday presents. So, now that it's all here I'll be using this as a progress thread to document my soundproofing the doors, install, and tuning. Hopefully it will be stealth inside and all that will be seen is an aftermarket deck. I did a little research and found a very cool item at lowes that is essentially dynamat at 1/6th of the cost or less. It works great, I've heard it first hand in a prius and it made the tinfoil doors sound like a those of a lexus.
I'll be using my old Pioneer H/U until I find one I want and can afford. I also have 2 12'' Eclipse SW6123.4 subs in a sealed 2 cube per chamber enclosure I'll be using as well because I love them and they've been with me through 3 or 4 cars. Expect new updates on Sunday/Monday.

Here's what came today:

GEDC0521.jpg


2 sets of these: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_31676_VIBE-Audio-SPACE6.html
Review for them if you never have heard of the brand... http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php/index.html/_/reviews/speakers/vibe-space-3d-r343

GEDC0480.jpg

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th_GEDC0486.jpg
th_GEDC0484.jpg
th_GEDC0483.jpg
th_GEDC0482.jpg
th_GEDC0481.jpg


One of these: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_28102_VIBE-Audio-Black-Box-Stereo-4-V1-BlackBS4-V1.html

GEDC0500.jpg

GEDC0501.jpg



And a: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_31680_VIBE-Audio-BlackBox-BASS4.html

GEDC0489.jpg

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Plus my existing subwoofers:

GEDC0527.jpg
 
Those xovers are huge! I was able to squeeze my normal sized ones in the space inside the door panel under the armrest. Those will def have to be mounted where the amps will be.

.A good place to mount the amps is under the rear deck as many have here. I cut a 3'x12" piece of wood, carpeted it and secured it to the back seat braces. Plenty of room for you mount all that equipment.

I'd like to see the progress and lots of pics.
 
Never used Vibe stuff before. Looks nice. Amps look to be lacking a bit in their power supply section. Not enough power storage in there for their claimed power.

Always loved the Eclips aluminum subs. Had them in a couple cars and they sound sweet.

I do need to sound deaden my Mark though. Whats the stuff you found?
 
I think he might be refering to "peel n seal"...I've used it in the past and liked it. Some people say it smells or doesn't stick for long. I used it on the doors and entire trunks of my caprice or marquis with no problems.Just have to prep and install it correctly.
 
I have an Eclipse CD7000 single disc/ nav that I never got a chance
to install in my Mark Looks like I may never install it because I want to
keep the factory look for now. Lemme know if a single DIN will work for you.


I'm also interested in that sound deadener stuff. Do you have a SKU
number that I can take to Lowes so they can locate it for me?

I will be following your audio progress thread as well. Looking forward to
the final build.




Ren
 
Why vibe??

Theres much better choices out there for the same or even less money.
 
97 Octane, thanks for the offer, PM me with some numbers, maybe we can talk.

Oh and, yes, Peel n Seal, well actually no, it's the same though. I don't have a sku. It's in the roofing section. It's this stuff, same as peel n seal.
th_GEDC0524.jpg
(Click)

I hear nothing but good from every place I see vibe amps and remember, the sub amp is Class GH so it's pretty efficient, I'm not sure, but I am pretty optimistic about 100RMSx4 and 900RMSx1 I have seen lots of reviews and spent alot of time tracking down people who spent time testing the amps and they claim they meet or exceed spec. Here's a crappy youtube vid, but he's setting the gain on an identical amp, you can see the scope screen and 20v, he has the basics right too I think. The way I've learned, volts x (volts/ohms)= watts -so- 20x(20/4)=100 = Rated power. Unless I am mistaken, and I am rusty. Seriously, stranger things have happened, and that pic of the internals is pretty crappy.
Here's a review that's favorable... http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/index.php/index.html/_/reviews/amplifiers/vibe-blackbox-stereo-4-r838

Anyway... Why Vibe? To be different. Everyone had opinions, and trust me I respect that. But don't assume I have not done research. I've been planning my install from months and when I found the right deal I sprung. I love uniqueness and I've listened to a few (20+) sets of speakers and none have met my expectation as well as these, nor met the same build quality. The space series isn't manufactured and designed anything like the other lines which are geared towards high school kids. Granted in pics they look a bit flashy, but through speaker grilles they will show just enough flair to be interesting. I was going to go with Alpine, then I thought about building my own set of components through Selenium and Peerless with custom crossovers but to be honest for what I paid for all this I couldn't do better.
I am truly impressed with even the free air quality of these components in my room. I have a pretty kickass home 2.1 setup and I actually like the upper mids on these better.

YouTube - ‪Setting car amplifier gain with oscilloscope (zero clipping)‬‏
 
Well, I spent some time looking around... http://ampguts.com/forum/#gallery

I compared several brands including Sundown, Alpine, Carver, etc, looking at power sections for AB class amps and the way I see things, the power section of the four channel amp measures up pretty well less than some, more than others.

I have no energy at this hour to open up the heavy ass bass amp now, but I will and then compare. But I spent a while learning about class G/H and they are pretty damn efficient.
http://www.apsdc.com/Amplifiers Topologies,Class GH.htm for some basics.

Here's the 4 channel innards...
GEDC0529.jpg


Oh and I found this... Similar to my setup too...
http://www.vibeaudio.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/sept-vroom.pdf
 
20 FETS, 4 reserve power caps, two noise caps..... that is small for a 400 watt amp.


Power is volts x amps = watts but its not that straight forward. That class AB amp will only be 65% efficient at best and then there is the question if its a regulated power supply. If it is then you wont be doing actual voltage times amps but 12.5v x amps to get power. So, as an example, if that thing has two 20 amp fuses on it then its 12.5x40=500 and at 65% effeciency its 325 watts RMS.

Now I am not saying they are bad amps, I never tested one so can not say. Over all construction looks nice.
The speakers look nice but them and the x-overs are big for the sake of being big. Not a fan of stuff thats bulky just so it looks more substantial.


As for GH, I had to look that up. Interesting design for the power rail. Has to be a regulated power supply on that amp to run the variable voltages on the rail like it does. Not quite as effecient like a class D but should have lower THD.
 
I'm goin to see more than 12.5 volts running, I rarely listen with the car off. But with a regulated ps, it won't matter. And, they are 30 amp fuses. So 60x12.5x.65= 487.5. Now, I know those kind of calculations are rough estimates, but still, you see we meet rated power.

I know volts x amps / efficiency = watts, but output voltage squared divided by resistance is also watts, look it up, I'd link but I'm on my phone. Anyway, the vid proves the output rating is attainable. Not trying to squabble over nothing, but I do like talking about this stuff.
 
Good grief that amp has some bad specs. .1% THD, 88db S/N...... eek. I would not run it below 4 ohms too. If an amp cant double its output when halving the impedance then you know its at max output. Id be worried about sending a clipped signal to those components.

Sorry mang, I dont wanna sound negative and you know I have nothing against you at all but those amps are..... not great.

The speakers have me curious though. The xmax on the midbass looks limited due to the surround design but they may be very tight and clean from 100hz-300hz. I like the three way setup but you are gonna need an EQ. Systems like that tend to be very bright at 2000-3500hz.
 
to be honest with you. and i am probably wrong cuz im always wrong when i post. but i dont think youll reach the max output power anyway if your running both those amps and your using a stock alt for these cars. in addition to that i dont see any mention of an added battery or a cap.

I do know i would like to hear the setup first hand. maybe we can meet up and do a bass off :)

the best advice i could give ya is to slap your head unit on an o-scope find out where it clips and then adjust your amps from there. if you do this then im sure that car will sound nice no matter how much power your getting.


I like this video a little bit better then the ones above but they pretty much are the same thing

YouTube - ‪what is clipping? O-Scope demo (set the deck up) SMD "HOW To"‬‏
 
Now thats a power stage! Looks like an old Rockford. Maybe 7 years old and a 1000watt 2-channel Power series version?
 
That amp is also somewhat more powerful than mine...



Anyway, I have heard the speakers first hand, and they do sound fine, bass extension is good too, remember the aluminum cones are very light and quick. I am researching decks and seperate EQs for the sake of wanting one, but I did some playing around and I was very happy with the nutrality of the speakers with only minor issues with brawny upper mids which were actually easily dulled by running the speakers in the "3D" configuration. It really did disperse well and help curb the edge I heard.
GEDC0484.jpg


I cannot vouch for the amps, but I wouldn't know how they won awards overseas for value and performance with crummy quality. Let's not forget all our mainstream brands come from overseas anyway. There are prestigious name brand amps that won't double power at half impedance, and I I need is 4 ohm anyway.

http://www.vibeaudio.co.uk/manuals/blackbox_amps_manual.pdf, specs section in the owners manual says 0.1%THD... I'm gonna see how it sounds and if I dont like what I hear I'll just return it. I doubt I'll be unhappy for the 94 bucks it cost. It was a refurb. I won't be operating any of this stuff in a range where it will be pushed to 100w to reach the distortion limits, even if it were 1% thd, which is really not that bad. 88db SNR on the stereo4 was a little scary to me, but like I said, I wanted to give it a real try, not a bench, to try a new brand. The bass amp is 118db.

Bill I know you have a taste for expensive and know your stuff as well or more than I, but I've gone through everything you say and we have come to see 1. Power specs add up even considering the math 2. distortion is not 1% its .1%.

That audioque stuff is near identical specs to mine in the 4ch and the sub amp, 1%THD not .1%, slightly higher SNR which is good I guess, but not that much difference.

Tripp, I am not in it for bass. Not that I wouldn't meet up. I'm not stressing about the factory alt and reaching peak power... No one will be competing with my setup, it's just for my enjoyment, 130 amp alt and only 1300wrms total should be fine. I'm not gonna install extra batteries or a bigger alt for a small system like this. I really don't push my systems at all. Rap CDs won't ever touch my car, and gains will be conservatively set. I already have damaged hearing from being a stupid kid with too many speakers.
 
its still fun to bump it when ya have it tho :) im not a fan of extra batteries either. I always end up arguing with people too about them. i just dont feel they give you anything extra unless your looking for longer play time with out the engine running. I do however like Caps i run a 25 farad cap in my system. even if your not into bass its still nice to have it hold like it is supposed to when it hits.

Now im not saying you need a cap but i couldnt hurt to but a 1-3 farad cap in that line up. my system is for enjoyment as well. i just happen to enjoy crisp clear sound and unmuddy bass :)

im curious if your only looking at 1300rms how much of that is for the subs. i would figure them at say at least 500rms each just for the two subs.
 
Tripp, I do like bass I am just sayin I dont plan to win any competitions. My 2 component sets will get 400rms total, and the subs will get 900rms. They are rated for 300rms but are very underrated in a sealed box. The comps are rated at 130rms so I am ok there too. Now I say Imnot a basshead because I dont listen to rap but the 2 12s do thump pretty well.
 
Necrosan said:
Hit the button on the head... Bit older than 7 years though, it's from 99. :)
Click to expand...
So its the series that still had the curved beauty plates? Those were the last of the really good Rockford cheaters. They didnt get good again till 2006 but promptly went to chit again. :(
96hotrodlincoln said:
Looks like a BD1000 to me! I fried one once!
Click to expand...

The BD1000 is a mono block class D and has smaller caps and bass bars between both speaker output terminals.




I am with ya Mike. I like bass but not insaine base. I currently have my subs wired at 8 ohms. My two mono blocks only put out 350 watts at that power but the dampening factor is through the roof so bass is very tight and accurate. Since the subs are L7's they can handle the amp if I rewired for 2 ohms which would be 1000 watts each RMS but the bass was not nearly as clean. Sure was freakin loud though. :lol:
 
Ya, I'll try mine at 8ohm too if it gets sloppy at 2ohm, tbh honest I don't even need 2 12s for what I listen to, I just have em so I figure wtf... I just hope I get good results, you have me worried. Crappy thing is I can't even share the results if it turns out good not like youtube vids can let you hear how it turns out.
 
I have my three 10" JL's wired at 6 ohm and more than happy with the sound I have. I even removed the ZX series Kicker amps with the " so called better ratings" and went back with my old school 1998 Kicker Impulse amps. The 4-channel amp just has a better sound to it with excellent highs. The ZX650.4 sucked for having highs.

I will admit that removing the ZX1000.1 from the subs did take the solid kick away but that thing was just way too powerful. The 2252xi does the job just fine for me and the 654xi sounds very good on the inside. I have more than enough boom if I want it but at 42, you kinda fade away from it. I really see myself breaking it all down to just a 4 channel amp with no sub at all one day. I don't drive it enough to even worry about it.

Mike, go with what you like and good luck with the install. I can say this... Anything sounds better than stock and waiting for that stock amp to just quit one day. All of that stuff is cheaply made. My head unit is a Kenwood eXcelon KDC-X993 and is color changed to match the dash lighting perfectly and an iPod touch in the console is connected with not one wire showing and it has crystal clear sound. I never have to open the console for any reason and the deck accepts phone calls, drops the volume and also sounds very clear for both me and the caller. It resumes play after the call is over. I keep the phone up above the 2nd sun visor and never have to touch it.
I never even use the CD player anymore lol. With the iPod, CD's are pretty much useless when you have 3 to 4K songs inside the console. As for navigation, that's something I don't need. I don't travel and I have lived where I am for 90% of my life. I never get lost and if there is a trip, mapquest is your friend. Print and go!
 
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