Battery Drain

[Stopsign002]

So, heres my issue. My battery seems to drain in about 12-15 hours to the point where it cant start the car. This started happening maybe 2 weeks ago. The battery can be charged just fine, there just seems to be some sort of drain. Now I installed LEDs in the interior and the license plate a few months ago. I've noticed they dont completely turn off as you can see in this picture:

Now this didnt cause any issues initially which makes me believe it is something else, but I figured it was worth mentioning. My father and I plan on going through and trying to pull fuses to see what is causing all this drain. Do you all have any suggestions for things I should try and look for? The only thing that changed in the last two weeks is freezing temperatures. Anything pop into your mind about that causing some trouble? Like I said, the battery seems fine. I just jumped it a few hours ago, drove for 20 minutes to my gym, worked out for 2 hours and the car started up with no hesitation. It almost seems like the car isnt putting the electronics to sleep or something

 

[nghtshd88]

If Im not mistaken those LEDs stay sort of lit for like 20mins or so. Theres threads on that.

 

[Stopsign002]

If Im not mistaken those LEDs stay sort of lit for like 20mins or so. Theres threads on that.

Yeah I believe that is true. I believe the car goes into 'sleep' mode after 30 or so minutes and they go off. I am going to double check in a few more minutes (just got home like 20 minutes ago). But if my car isnt going into sleep mode like I suspect then that might be an indication

 

[chris2523]

the LS has the interior lights that dim right? instead of just going out?
cuz if so, that is probably accomplished with capacitors. its easy to do, i've built the dimming circuits before. but the low power LEDs take a lot longer to fully discharge the capacitors. takes a while for them to go out completely. so they glow.
i don't think its a problem.

on my car, i traced a voltage draw to a bad stereo amp. i did that by hooking up an ammeter in line with the battery. then pulling selective fuses until the current draw went away. is this an option on the LS?

alternatively, you battery (probably, if it is original) is now 7 years old, and is possibly just dead/dying.

 

[joegr]

the LS has the interior lights that dim right? instead of just going out?
cuz if so, that is probably accomplished with capacitors.....

Not with capacitors. The dimming is accomplished by the microcontroller in the FEM PWMing the drive signal to the power transistors that turn the interior lighting on and off.

 

[chris2523]

Not with capacitors. The dimming is accomplished by the microcontroller in the FEM PWMing the drive signal to the power transistors that turn the interior lighting on and off.

ah i see. thanks for the correction.

 

[Stopsign002]

Battery is less than 3 months old

 

[chris2523]

hmm. well that's interesting. but i have had new batteries die on me before too.

 

[Gus_Mahn]

My '03 LS8 had a 3 day 'till dead draw. The transmission portion of the PCM crapped out causing weird/violent shifts. The PCM was replaced because of trans issues, and the draw went away. I was never aware in which system my issue lay.

 

[hinzy]

I had the same issue with battery draw when It started getting cold.
Had someone look at it and traced it to fuses 25 and 30. They let the car sit overnight and when they put the fuses back in they heard a "click" in the trunk area and there was no longer a battery draw. Have no idea what it was or what it fixed, but it's been fine since.

 

[Stopsign002]

I had the same issue with battery draw when It started getting cold.
Had someone look at it and traced it to fuses 25 and 30. They let the car sit overnight and when they put the fuses back in they heard a "click" in the trunk area and there was no longer a battery draw. Have no idea what it was or what it fixed, but it's been fine since.

Yeah it definitely seemed like it was related to the cold. Ill give that a try I suppose lol

 

[Stopsign002]

Yeah after sitting over night the LEDs were still on. I don't think its the lights draining the battery though because they have been installed for months with no problems

 

[purevilpleasure]

If it is from your LED's my guess is after months of it draining and draining and now it's cold it could have killed the battery.

 

[joegr]

Yeah after sitting over night the LEDs were still on. I don't think its the lights draining the battery though because they have been installed for months with no problems

The LEDs are not your problem. Your problem is that your car isn't sleeping. Unfortunately, the reason for that may be difficult to track down.

A little note about the LEDs glowing. The glow is from the slight amount of current that the bulb minder circuit uses to determine if a bulb is burnt-out, and from leakage from the electronics. The regular bulbs use/waste even more current than the LEDs, but the LEDs are so efficient that they can actually produce some light with the waste current. If you were to put regular bulbs back in, the parasitic drain current would actually increase even though the bulbs wouldn't light up.

 

[jrand]

tough to diagnose via internet. are you sure the alternator is good?
and what kind of charge are you putting on it?

 

[Stopsign002]

A little note about the LEDs glowing. The glow is from the slight amount of current that the bulb minder circuit uses to determine if a bulb is burnt-out, and from leakage from the electronics. The regular bulbs use/waste even more current than the LEDs, but the LEDs are so efficient that they can actually produce some light with the waste current. If you were to put regular bulbs back in, the parasitic drain current would actually increase even though the bulbs wouldn't light up.

This was my thought about the slight glow from the LEDs. Thats why I wasnt worried about it till this junk started happening. Thanks for clarification as to the exact reason its happening though.

tough to diagnose via internet. are you sure the alternator is good?
and what kind of charge are you putting on it?

The alternator seems to be able to charge the battery no problem. As long as I dont wait more than 12 hours I can drive away no problem. Also, its new as of like a few months, though of course its still possible its bad, I just dont think so really. I'm definitely leaning towards the car not going to sleep. Is there something in the car that could get cold and get stuck 'open'? It seemed to happen once the nights started getting very cold

 

[M4rk]

Open door perhaps?

Your new alternator, is it a Motorcraft?

 

[joegr]

... I'm definitely leaning towards the car not going to sleep. Is there something in the car that could get cold and get stuck 'open'? It seemed to happen once the nights started getting very cold

A door or the trunk stuck open wouldn't do it. You can leave the doors and/or trunk open and the car will still sleep (until you close one). I assume the hood switch is the same way. If you have a door/hood/trunk switch that is on the edge and keeps switching on/off, that would cause it. Maybe you could try again. This time open the hood, trunk and all the doors. See if the car goes to sleep in twenty or thirty minutes with everything open.

A key on signal would also keep it from sleeping. That should cause more symptoms than you have reported so far.

 

[Stopsign002]

Open door perhaps?

Your new alternator, is it a Motorcraft?

Yes, motorcraft.

A door or the trunk stuck open wouldn't do it. You can leave the doors and/or trunk open and the car will still sleep (until you close one). I assume the hood switch is the same way. If you have a door/hood/trunk switch that is on the edge and keeps switching on/off, that would cause it. Maybe you could try again. This time open the hood, trunk and all the doors. See if the car goes to sleep in twenty or thirty minutes with everything open.

A key on signal would also keep it from sleeping. That should cause more symptoms than you have reported so far.

What is the best way to tell if the car has gone to sleep?

I tried pulling those fuses and putting them back that were suggested a few posts back but havent had a chance to see if that is stopping the drain or not. The alarm did go off when I put 25 (I think it was 25? Though maybe it was 30) back in but I figure that was just the fuse for the alarm system.

 

[joegr]

Yes, motorcraft.



What is the best way to tell if the car has gone to sleep?

I tried pulling those fuses and putting them back that were suggested a few posts back but havent had a chance to see if that is stopping the drain or not. The alarm did go off when I put 25 (I think it was 25? Though maybe it was 30) back in but I figure that was just the fuse for the alarm system.

Well, if all the lights go all the way off, then it is probably sleeping.

The best way is to use an ammeter or multimeter with a 20A current range. Disconnect the negative cable to the battery. Attach the negative lead of the meter to the negative battery post in some will that will stay connected for an hour or so. Then connect the positive lead of the meter to the car's ground in some way that will stay as well. At first you may see several amps if any lights are on. After 20/30 minutes without touching anything on the car or the meter, the current should go to less than 50mA (0.05 Amps). When it does the car is sleeping. You will also hear some relays shut off in the trunk if you are close enough when it happens.

 

[hinzy]

These were the notes they took about the draw I had...

 

[Stopsign002]

Well, if all the lights go all the way off, then it is probably sleeping.

The best way is to use an ammeter or multimeter with a 20A current range. Disconnect the negative cable to the battery. Attach the negative lead of the meter to the negative battery post in some will that will stay connected for an hour or so. Then connect the positive lead of the meter to the car's ground in some way that will stay as well. At first you may see several amps if any lights are on. After 20/30 minutes without touching anything on the car or the meter, the current should go to less than 50mA (0.05 Amps). When it does the car is sleeping. You will also hear some relays shut off in the trunk if you are close enough when it happens.

Thanks for the information as usual Joegr. I have a feeling there would be a lot less LS' on the road if it wasn't for you :Beer My multimeter recently died but I'll steal my fathers tomorrow and start messing around with it

These were the notes they took about the draw I had...

Awesome thanks for the information. Yeah, I tried pulling them but I wont know till tomorrow morning if it helped. I didnt hear any relays click when I pulled them and plugged them back in, but like I said when I plugged one of them back in the alarm went off so I could have easily not heard it. It also reset all of my settings on my stereo and such so clearly one of those is the fuse to the interior electronics.

 

[jrand]

pulling the relay under the hood for the horn/heated wipers would buy you some battery life when its cold out. i dont think thats the source of your problem though.

one thing you need to factor in is proper 'battery replacement procedure' after it dies and you jump it. it saves a whole ton of settings the first few time you shut the car off and it may be enough to wear your battery down low enough that your car wont start. i am going off the top of my head: but either after the first drive cycle or after the first time the car is turned on after a battery replacement (i dont remember which) the car needs to idle for like 5-10 mins (maybe more, this is off the top of my head) before you shut it down to allow the PCM to store all of the new parameters to the KAM. failing to do so will make the pcm do all of the saving on the battery alone and may cause your no start condition. that is going to throw off the test recommended by joegr unless the car is properly 'broken in'

 

[jrand]

These were the notes they took about the draw I had...

def give all your fuses a nice push. sometimes they can look like they are connected and still be popped loose

 

[M4rk]

pulling the relay under the hood for the horn/heated wipers would buy you some battery life when its cold out. i dont think thats the source of your problem though.

one thing you need to factor in is proper 'battery replacement procedure' after it dies and you jump it. it saves a whole ton of settings the first few time you shut the car off and it may be enough to wear your battery down low enough that your car wont start. i am going off the top of my head: but either after the first drive cycle or after the first time the car is turned on after a battery replacement (i dont remember which) the car needs to idle for like 5-10 mins (maybe more, this is off the top of my head) before you shut it down to allow the PCM to store all of the new parameters to the KAM. failing to do so will make the pcm do all of the saving on the battery alone and may cause your no start condition. that is going to throw off the test recommended by joegr unless the car is properly 'broken in'

Oh yes, that.

Drive 50mph for 15 seconds in D4, followed by 55mph for 20 seconds in D5. Then do 4-6 WOT runs 0-60mph (I can't remember how many exactly so just do 6 to be safe) and your battery procedure will reset.

Source: Certified Ford Master Technician (jj-rand)