absolutely bizarre NO START issue

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mikemark8

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The saga continues-94 mark, 170,000 miles, it does run well when running, but it periodically will NOT start-no rhyme or reason to it at all. I worked on it (friend's car) last week over a 4 day period. New crank sensor, connector/harness, VCRM, disconnected/reconnected theft module...for the first three days I had it, while doing other things like front end stuff and the dreaded oil fllter adapter gasket, I must have started this stupid car 100 times-no problems. I go to take it back, of COURSE, it won't start. So I 'jiggle' the crank sensor harness, it starts. I park it back into the garage, it WON"T restart...I messed with it all night (Thanksgiving night, boy was I popular around my house), that is when I replaced the VCRM with another. I started it all day Friday, I took it back, He has been driving it since then (five days), no problem, and he drives alot. He just called...it won't start-he ran into a store after work for 2 minutes, said he even shut it off and re-started it BEFORE he went in, it woundn't start when he came out. Geezztz. I told him to get out, wiggle the crank sensor harness. Nothing. Suggested trying to start it in neutral (I know, that doesn't matter)-nothing. I said to wiggle the key in the ignition switch, then try to start it-nothing. Get out and check to see if the inertia switch is tripped for the fuel pump, he tired it, nothing. We are talking on the phone while the mother :q:q:q:qer is NOT starting, and all of a sudden, it starts...WTF? Anybody have any guesses, cause I am getting it back tomorrow and if I have to jack it up and put another car under it, I am going to solve this...Jesus Christ (scream):eek:
 
Starter solenoid may be going bad or the starter itself. Check all connections to the starter for tightness. It could be a number of things causing this but you have hit some of them already.
 
Maybe a switch in the shifter isn't telling the ignition circuit you're in Park...
 
nolimit94VIII said:
Starter solenoid may be going bad or the starter itself. Check all connections to the starter for tightness. It could be a number of things causing this but you have hit some of them already.
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It does crank, just will not fire up-but, and I am not familiar with the starter/solenoid on these (since I can just imagine they are just GREAT to remove/replace)-is there a wire/connection that feeds the ignition or EDIS from the starter? maybe if there is such a connection, it needs to be checked?

Maybe a switch in the shifter isn't telling the ignition circuit you're in Park...


It will crank in park or neutral, it just doesn't (periodically) start, and for no reason that I can figure-it has gone days, even weeks like this-no problems at all, then it happens, and without being touched at all, it'll start like nothing is wrong.
 
nolimit94VIII said:
The ignition control module is on the drivers side, under the strut cover. That will be the EDIS.
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I know where the EDIS is, I did remove the cover when I hooked into the OBD1 connector there when I had the car last week-is there any connection at the starter or solenoid for the EDIS or ECU?
Are all connections at the starter/solenoid strictly for cranking the engine over, or is there a connection that tells the EDIS to start firing, because I would think that'd be the job of the crank sensor-anyone have a wiring diagram of just the starter and solenoid?
 
Have you checked to make sure your fuel rail is getting the pressure it needs or do you really think it's something electrical? You could take the pass side fender lining out and remove the filter and then turn the key and see or make sure fuel is getting that far at least.

As for the diagrams, someone else on here might have more info on that.
 
If it cranks, your starter and solenoid are good. Power to the ignition and stuff comes from the engine compartment Power Distribution (fuse box).

I wasn't clear - did you REPLACE the harness/connector for the crank sensor?

Check for spark. No spark is caused by no crank sensor signal.

Have you looked at the cam sensor?
 
It should still turn over with no cam sensor input, right? Mine ran (albeit not that well) with what ended up being a rusted-out connector at the cam sensor.
 
With either a bum crank sensor or cam sensor, it will crank but not start.
 
I am wondering if maybe it hasa leaking injector. I had a 97 Cobra that would decide not to start at the weirdest times. Checked everything and replaced many sensors. Turned out three injectors were sticking open and bleading off pressure with the car off. So if it sat for more then 10 minutes and under 3 hours then it would not restart till the fuel evaped some.
Also you could have a dieing fuel pump.
Barring all that then you have a broken wire going into the computer or coils.
Have you checked fuel pressure and spark?
 
LaserSVT said:
I am wondering if maybe it hasa leaking injector. I had a 97 Cobra that would decide not to start at the weirdest times. Checked everything and replaced many sensors. Turned out three injectors were sticking open and bleading off pressure with the car off. So if it sat for more then 10 minutes and under 3 hours then it would not restart till the fuel evaped some.
Click to expand...

That would be easily diagnosed by holding the accelerator to the floor while cranking. If it has flooded due to leaky injectors, the injectors will be shut off and it will crank and clear the fuel from the cylinders. After a few seconds of cranking, release the throttle and try to start as normal. If it was flooded it will either start or try to start with the accelerator floored or it will start normally after clearing the flooded condition.
 
It's 4 AM, this is driving me crazy-sorry for the novel:


Have you checked to make sure your fuel rail is getting the pressure it needs or do you really think it's something electrical? You could take the pass side fender lining out and remove the filter and then turn the key and see or make sure fuel is getting that far at least.

As for the diagrams, someone else on here might have more info on that.
__________________

I do think it is electrical since I can get fuel when depressing the schrader valve-plus, for the most part, it will start and run-and when it does run, it runs well which I would think eliminates the fuel pump.




If it cranks, your starter and solenoid are good. Power to the ignition and stuff comes from the engine compartment Power Distribution (fuse box).
I wasn't clear - did you REPLACE the harness/connector for the crank sensor?
Check for spark. No spark is caused by no crank sensor signal.

Have you looked at the cam sensor?[/I]

I did replace the crank sensor and the harness-I did not check the cam sensor though, that is behind the power steering res, correct? Would that cause intermittent no-start?


It should still turn over with no cam sensor input, right? Mine ran (albeit not that well) with what ended up being a rusted-out connector at the cam sensor.
With either a bum crank sensor or cam sensor, it will crank but not start.


That's the thing, it does start-most of the time, but I will say that the most common thread is that it seems like, when it sits for hours, it'll start, you can drive it 30 miles with no issues-shut it off, and immediatly restart it with no problems-but sometimes if it sits for a few minutes, it won't start until time transpires (30 minutes to many hours, it seems). I doesn't always do that either-it is completely random.


I am wondering if maybe it hasa leaking injector. I had a 97 Cobra that would decide not to start at the weirdest times. Checked everything and replaced many sensors. Turned out three injectors were sticking open and bleading off pressure with the car off. So if it sat for more then 10 minutes and under 3 hours then it would not restart till the fuel evaped some.
Also you could have a dieing fuel pump.
Barring all that then you have a broken wire going into the computer or coils.
Have you checked fuel pressure and spark?

I thought of this last time I worked on it-I held the pedal to the floor, and it made no difference-tried that more than once. I am going to change the fuel filter tomorrow when I get it back, and I wondered too about the fuel pump, but if it craps out while running and getting 'hot', wouldn't that manifest itself while running, I mean you can drive this thing for 30 minutes and there are no issues at all. It is not low on fuel (over 1/2 a tank) so the fuel pump is covered with fuel-cools it too, correct?
I am going to drop the panel and look at the harness for the ECM, for whatever good that'll do...I am going to look at the cam sensor, probably just replace it. I hate just throwing parts at it, but it does have 170,000 miles on it, so I guess all kinds of items could use refreshing.
__________________

That would be easily diagnosed by holding the accelerator to the floor while cranking. If it has flooded due to leaky injectors, the injectors will be shut off and it will crank and clear the fuel from the cylinders. After a few seconds of cranking, release the throttle and try to start as normal. If it was flooded it will either start or try to start with the accelerator floored or it will start normally after clearing the flooded condition.
__________________


Thanks for the input, especially the cam sensor-I just got off the phone with him and he said he doesn't think he EVER changed the fuel filter...he's owned this since NEW! I am going to check the harness that goes into the coils also, although I would think this has to be more of a crank/cam sensor problem. thanks for all the ideas, I'll get back with findings.
 
my anti theft was acting up and not letting mine start a few months ago. i would turn the key and nothing would happen at all. it wouldnt crank over or click or anything. i had to crawl under the car and jump the starter with a live wire from the battery. you could try that but it sounds like your problem is a little different though.
 
i did disconnect the anti-theft module last week while this was going on, it didn't matter-just cranked. Funny thing, I went and got it today, he was in work and it had been sitting for about 6 hours-it wouldn't start, I reached down and moved the crank harness around, nothing-i did the same to the cam sensor, nothing-did the crank sensor again, it started right up...tomorrow, it gets a new cam sensor, crank sensor, fuel filter...hope that does it, I am not one for throwing parts at a problem, but in this case I will make an exception.
 
Well, at least it's only three of them and fairly simple to do. I hate the fuel filter because of where it is and those damn little clips that hold it in but mine is good now for years to come hopefully.
 
See if you can get the cam sensor harness pigtail and solder a new one in place of the old one when you replace the cam sensor. Put dielectric grease on the harness connections (especially the crank sensor) to keep them from corroding.

Who knows, a new fuel filter may do the trick.

Good luck.
 
Get a cheap fuel pressure gauge and throw it in the trunk, with a spark plug.
Next time it wont start check for spark first then fuel pressure.
If its no spark do what Driller said.
Low pressure you could start with a filter, but might need a pump.
One of these days its going to not start, just a matter of time.
 
picked it up on thursday and beat on it all day yesterday-interesting thing, the old harness from the crank sensor to the mail harness looked like it was done before-it had a splice into the main harness, and it had shrink tube over the connections-and it was pretty funky, like it had been pulled on-i bought a new harness and removed it, spliced it in again, and replaced the cam sensor and fuel filter (NEVER replaced in 170,000 miles, took all I could to blow through it)-I may be dreaming, but it does seem better, starts easily and runs great-While at it, I replaced the stablilizer bar end links (were trashed), quieted the un-Godly noise from the front-If anyone has a guage cluster (specifically a tack) I need one, this one does not work-thanks for all the opinions, I really think the harness was the cause of all this, but the fuel filter probably was wearing out the fuel pump.
 
Check your coils. If one has dropped below required voltage it wont start because one bank is basically dead. They weaken over time and will give intermittent starts. Check both primary and secondary sides of both coils.
 
HotRodMk8 said:
Check your coils. If one has dropped below required voltage it wont start because one bank is basically dead. They weaken over time and will give intermittent starts. Check both primary and secondary sides of both coils.
Click to expand...

Car runs GREAT when it starts, it was an intermittent no start issue-never considered the coils (still don't:D ) problem was with the crank sensor harness. Can run it all the way up to 6000 rpm without a stutter, coils are still healthy, I think. It is fixed and thanks for the dielectric grease reminder, Driller.
 
Had a similar problem with my 98. One day it kick over and stopped firing but just cranked and cranked like there was no spark. Got weird nonsense codes on OBDII
scanner. After a while I floored it while cranking and it kicked over and ran rough. Turns out the IAC was stuck !!!!! Easy to find on 98, harder I hear on Gen 1. Cleaned it out with choke cleaner, put it on a battery and clicked in and out a few times. Never had the problem again. Found fix in Mustang forum. remember they use these engines there too!
 
I stopped by his work today, and checked on it-still starting, no problems at all (in that department)-of course, the front was slammed, he was bummed about that and wanted to know what that meant-I didn't have the heart to tell him:D -I told him to shut off the suspension switch to see if there was one bag slamming the front, we'd go from there. I also AGAIN told him that it was 17 years old, had 170,000 miles on it, was a DD, and a combination of the three could be an issue.
 
Baccalieri said:
On the times it won't start did you make sure you were turning the key?
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