Dyno results in with video!

[ripped camel]

Three runs my best pull was 237rwtq & 225rwhp. Mods are in my sig.

The a/f ratio was hanging in the mid 13 range the whole way through the run. The dyno guy told me I could bump my numbers up a bit more if I add more fuel and get the a/f into the mid 12.5-12.7 range. Thoughts on that?

oil pan gasket leaks, as does the ds valve cover gasket. Would those cause a loss in compression resulting in a loss in power?

All in all I'm pretty happy. I hope bumping up the fuel will put my torque closer to the 250 range and hp closer to 240.

How comparable is my numbers to anyone elses with na bolt ons?

YouTube - 1997 Lincoln Mark VIII Dyno run

 

[htrdlincoln98]

I don't think the oil leaks would have any effect on your power output. Also I wouldn't add any fuel to your tune if running n/a. Lean is fast. Not saying your running lean, IMO your afr is good.

 

[kustomizingkid]

How was he reading the AFR, with a tail pipe sniffer I'm geussing... if that is case I wouldn't trust the numbers as the readings were after the cat....

That being said if those numbers are on you can lean it out a bit... I'm commanding .86 lamda at wot...

 

[ripped camel]

How was he reading the AFR, with a tail pipe sniffer I'm geussing... if that is case I wouldn't trust the numbers as the readings were after the cat....

That being said if those numbers are on you can lean it out a bit... I'm commanding .86 lamda at wot...

Yeah I think with a tailpipe sniffer.

 

[LaserSVT]

Damn. I was hopeing they would push more then that to the wheels.
My 96 Cobra had a chip, gears, cat back and off road h-pipes and put down 299.8 RWHP I was thinking with the auto and lesser intake that an exhausted and tuned Mark would do closer to 275ish.

 

[lsc8]

Damn. I was hopeing they would push more then that to the wheels.
My 96 Cobra had a chip, gears, cat back and off road h-pipes and put down 299.8 RWHP I was thinking with the auto and lesser intake that an exhausted and tuned Mark would do closer to 275ish.

yea....i would have thought more than that at least. the tranny must really soak up a lot

 

[driller]

For a chip and exhaust, that's not out of line for a Gen2.

Dynos are like whores. They all lie and will tell you what you want to hear if you pay them enough.

 

[LaserSVT]

For a chip and exhaust, that's not out of line for a Gen2.

Dynos are like whores. They all lie and will tell you what you want to hear if you pay them enough.

IDK, that same dyno said my pullied, tuned, intake, long tube, off road H-pipe, cat back, larger heat exchanger, single blade t-body, ported plenum Cobra only did 449 at the wheels.

 

[MediumD]

I did 224rwhp and 241 torque. On a pull ending at 5200rpm, before the hp would've peaked. This was also on a Dynojet.

My car is stock as far as power mods. But then again, yours is a gen 2.

 

[ripped camel]

I know the engine isn't tired either because I sent the oil that was in the car when I bought it to blackstone labs and they wrote in the comments there is no indication of engine wear, and went as far as to say "it looks like you bought a good one". So I know it's not that.

I just did the fuel filter and passenger side valve cover gasket. I wonder if the fuel pump is not giving it enough fuel. I don't know what the deal is but I was definitely expecting more after dumping $1000 into mods!

 

[98LSC32V]

Who cares what the dyno says bro? Take it to the track and see what it runs, that's the only thing that matters...

 

[driller]

I don't know what the deal is but I was definitely expecting more after dumping $1000 into mods!

Is there something more than the chip, K&N filter and exhaust?

The stock driveline saps plus or minus 20% FWHP. At a 'stock 280 HP', that means 224 RWHP (coincidence?). To get your guesstimate of 240 RWHP you would've needed 300 FWHP.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the chip, exhaust and an air filter aren't going to result in 20 HP, especially to an otherwise stock Gen2. Your exhaust still has the restrictive cats and manifolds. The 'not so great' Gen2 intake manifold isn't allowing the cat-back exhaust to be any factor of relevance.

On a stock setup, the chip is going to modify your shifts, remove the speed limiter and possibly add a few HP with timing and fuel trims IF the knock sensors don't pull timing back. As KK said, with the tailpipe sniffer and cats, the A/F numbers may or may not be indicative of the actual fuel trims. Most dyno operators will leave a margin of safety when in doubt unless commanded otherwise by the owner.

Finally, if you do not have a 'baseline' dyno run stock to compare to, you really are just guessing where the car was prior to the mods. I almost guarantee your mods didn't give 15 or 20 HP. But you may have picked up 5 or 10 HP and not even know it.

 

[LaserSVT]

See this is where I get confused. I know better then to add the numbers of what a part claims it adds to what another part claims to have added to get a total number. But some numbers I do believe like when Geno says his exhaust setup adds 20 HP and I see the stock setup then it makes sense. I know SCT claimes 31hp with their tune and I know thats BS. And I know K&N claim like 15 HP and again I know thats BS. But to me it seems like a full 2.5" exhaust from the cats back, a tune and a K&N should allow for a 25-30hp gain all together. I see that on Mustangs all the time and they have a better exhaust but a more restrictive intake and heads.
So a LSC with exhaust, tune and intake should be able to do 320hp or about 260 at the wheels. Add a better fuel pump, better MAF, 3/4 headers with high flow cats (or none at all), better stall and a custom tune should be able to hit 300 rwhp, no?

Here is a small example of a friends car. Its a 2000 GT.
K&N FIPK Gen II CAI
HiTech Stage II cams
Magnaflow Magnapacks
MRT SS Catted H pipe
FRPP 3.73 gears
Ford motor sport aluminum drive shaft
SCT XCalibrator 2 with a 93 oct tune by Chris at EFI logics
RPM series C&L Plenum and PRO Products 75mm TB
Steeda U/D pullies


Now his intake is still more restrictive then ours and even with the cams his heads are not flowing as much nor do they have the same port velocity.
Through his J-mod automatic he makes 280rwhp and 300 rwtq.

Now that was on a dynojet and if it was a Mustang dyno then it would prolly be 250-260 rwhp.

What kind of dyno was that where the Mark was ran?

 

[AbrahamLincoln]

i did 254/255 on a mustang dyno. similar mods...

SCT dynotune chip, 255LPH high flow high output pump, cone filter, same exhaust as you, no thirdcat - magnaflow dual in dual out 2.5 all the way back. I run copper plugs stock heat range, ford racing 9mm wires, screamin demon coil packs, 160 degree tstat. I think thats pretty much it. as far as the motors goes. If you have miles on your car replace the 02 sensors and MAFS, that can find you missing hp.

 

[AbrahamLincoln]

i dont think you need a better mafs unless your over 400 - cuz your not spiking it. Fuel pump won't really do anything, because your just getting the correct ammount of fuel there from the get go. Stall won't do anything either because thats not increasing the power just allowing you to leave at your sweet spot. Headers will definetly do a lot to this car, cats im not sure. Driller put down about 260 whp iirc and he has way more mods than that. I have a custom tuned chip off the dyno, i don't have headers, i put down 255 on a stang dyno. To get my car to 300 NA would take some internal mods, i dont think bolt ons will get you anywhere near that.

See this is where I get confused. I know better then to add the numbers of what a part claims it adds to what another part claims to have added to get a total number. But some numbers I do believe like when Geno says his exhaust setup adds 20 HP and I see the stock setup then it makes sense. I know SCT claimes 31hp with their tune and I know thats BS. And I know K&N claim like 15 HP and again I know thats BS. But to me it seems like a full 2.5" exhaust from the cats back, a tune and a K&N should allow for a 25-30hp gain all together. I see that on Mustangs all the time and they have a better exhaust but a more restrictive intake and heads.
So a LSC with exhaust, tune and intake should be able to do 320hp or about 260 at the wheels. Add a better fuel pump, better MAF, 3/4 headers with high flow cats (or none at all), better stall and a custom tune should be able to hit 300 rwhp, no?

Here is a small example of a friends car. Its a 2000 GT.
K&N FIPK Gen II CAI
HiTech Stage II cams
Magnaflow Magnapacks
MRT SS Catted H pipe
FRPP 3.73 gears
Ford motor sport aluminum drive shaft
SCT XCalibrator 2 with a 93 oct tune by Chris at EFI logics
RPM series C&L Plenum and PRO Products 75mm TB
Steeda U/D pullies


Now his intake is still more restrictive then ours and even with the cams his heads are not flowing as much nor do they have the same port velocity.
Through his J-mod automatic he makes 280rwhp and 300 rwtq.

Now that was on a dynojet and if it was a Mustang dyno then it would prolly be 250-260 rwhp.

What kind of dyno was that where the Mark was ran?

 

[AbrahamLincoln]

I walked in at 236whp, My base after 2-3 pulls after that was 225 - i mean like every pull was 225, then we made small adjustments after we had the base, let it calm down and we did 255/254, which means i got a gain of 19whp from when i walked in the door. but the base (which is the most important because you want consistancy in your numbers then raise them consitantly.

I notice that my car is way faster right when it warms up then when it gets hot. I was concerned about my intake being the problem because there is no heat shield or any of that. I was going to route the intake for "cold air" but my tuner told me it doesn't matter. I didn't want to argue so i just took his word for it. I ran for consitancy at the track 14.6 @ 95 all day - i never let her cool down I just kept going. I didn't load up on the converer at all, just 2nd last yellow light, gun it - 14.6 @ 95. I never let her cool down (it was pretty busy) The car was 4180 with that much power, which is about right. It was probably less hp because of the heat factor. I think with removing some weight (which i've done) a lighter skilled driver and a freshly warmed car 5 minutes of idle - it would probably break a high 13.

Is there something more than the chip, K&N filter and exhaust?

The stock driveline saps plus or minus 20% FWHP. At a 'stock 280 HP', that means 224 RWHP (coincidence?). To get your guesstimate of 240 RWHP you would've needed 300 FWHP.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the chip, exhaust and an air filter aren't going to result in 20 HP, especially to an otherwise stock Gen2. Your exhaust still has the restrictive cats and manifolds. The 'not so great' Gen2 intake manifold isn't allowing the cat-back exhaust to be any factor of relevance.

On a stock setup, the chip is going to modify your shifts, remove the speed limiter and possibly add a few HP with timing and fuel trims IF the knock sensors don't pull timing back. As KK said, with the tailpipe sniffer and cats, the A/F numbers may or may not be indicative of the actual fuel trims. Most dyno operators will leave a margin of safety when in doubt unless commanded otherwise by the owner.

Finally, if you do not have a 'baseline' dyno run stock to compare to, you really are just guessing where the car was prior to the mods. I almost guarantee your mods didn't give 15 or 20 HP. But you may have picked up 5 or 10 HP and not even know it.

 

[driller]

So a LSC with exhaust, tune and intake should be able to do 320hp or about 260 at the wheels.

Ain't gonna happen. If that is all you needed to get 320HP (260 RWHP) there would be a LOT more 13 second Mark VIIIs.

Add a better fuel pump, better MAF, 3/4 headers with high flow cats (or none at all), better stall and a custom tune should be able to hit 300 rwhp, no?

Again, no way those bolt-ons would come even close to 300 RWHP. Regardless of the claims, the track proves them wrong.

Driller put down about 260 whp iirc and he has way more mods than that. I have a custom tuned chip off the dyno, i don't have headers, i put down 255 on a stang dyno. To get my car to 300 NA would take some internal mods, i dont think bolt ons will get you anywhere near that.

But I bet if you go back and add up all the advertised HP gains from the list of mods, you would easily exceed 300 RWHP.

From my personal experience and years of observation, it takes much more than most think to get a Mark VIII anywhere near 280-300 RWHP. This is the primary reason most will just add a supercharger or nitrous. It's simply easier and more cost effective to slap on a power adder for big gains than to sweat and toil with bolt-ons for a fraction of the advertised gains in HP.

But to reiterate, without a comparative baseline dyno there is really no way to quantify HP gains from any combination of mods from any dyno on any car.

 

[AbrahamLincoln]

yep, i agree 100 percent. i put down 347 I think at the wheels with 150 wet shot with 14 degrees timing pulled. thats more than enough for me, plus i have piece of mind that on the dyno all the fuel was there and the timing - power was correct.

These cars get fast when the weight comes down.

Ain't gonna happen. If that is all you needed to get 320HP (260 RWHP) there would be a LOT more 13 second Mark VIIIs.



Again, no way those bolt-ons would come even close to 300 RWHP. Regardless of the claims, the track proves them wrong.



But I bet if you go back and add up all the advertised HP gains from the list of mods, you would easily exceed 300 RWHP.

From my personal experience and years of observation, it takes much more than most think to get a Mark VIII anywhere near 280-300 RWHP. This is the primary reason most will just add a supercharger or nitrous. It's simply easier and more cost effective to slap on a power adder for big gains than to sweat and toil with bolt-ons for a fraction of the advertised gains in HP.

But to reiterate, without a comparative baseline dyno there is really no way to quantify HP gains from any combination of mods from any dyno on any car.

 

[AbrahamLincoln]

what does your car weigh with you in it driller?

Ain't gonna happen. If that is all you needed to get 320HP (260 RWHP) there would be a LOT more 13 second Mark VIIIs.



Again, no way those bolt-ons would come even close to 300 RWHP. Regardless of the claims, the track proves them wrong.



But I bet if you go back and add up all the advertised HP gains from the list of mods, you would easily exceed 300 RWHP.

From my personal experience and years of observation, it takes much more than most think to get a Mark VIII anywhere near 280-300 RWHP. This is the primary reason most will just add a supercharger or nitrous. It's simply easier and more cost effective to slap on a power adder for big gains than to sweat and toil with bolt-ons for a fraction of the advertised gains in HP.

But to reiterate, without a comparative baseline dyno there is really no way to quantify HP gains from any combination of mods from any dyno on any car.

 

[driller]

4050 lbs car and driver in race trim with fuel tank at about 3/8. "Race trim" being defined as empty trunk and lighter wheels/tires (both front and rear) with no other weight reductions.

 

[ripped camel]

Is there something more than the chip, K&N filter and exhaust?

The stock driveline saps plus or minus 20% FWHP. At a 'stock 280 HP', that means 224 RWHP (coincidence?). To get your guesstimate of 240 RWHP you would've needed 300 FWHP.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the chip, exhaust and an air filter aren't going to result in 20 HP, especially to an otherwise stock Gen2. Your exhaust still has the restrictive cats and manifolds. The 'not so great' Gen2 intake manifold isn't allowing the cat-back exhaust to be any factor of relevance.

On a stock setup, the chip is going to modify your shifts, remove the speed limiter and possibly add a few HP with timing and fuel trims IF the knock sensors don't pull timing back. As KK said, with the tailpipe sniffer and cats, the A/F numbers may or may not be indicative of the actual fuel trims. Most dyno operators will leave a margin of safety when in doubt unless commanded otherwise by the owner.

Finally, if you do not have a 'baseline' dyno run stock to compare to, you really are just guessing where the car was prior to the mods. I almost guarantee your mods didn't give 15 or 20 HP. But you may have picked up 5 or 10 HP and not even know it.

This is where I'd have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. With only BBK LT's, orh, Borla catback, cai, dyno tune and aluminum flywheel my 2V GT put out the numbers in my sig. They too are supposed to run mid 220's stock with a manual. I picked up 50RWHP!! The only difference between my GT and Lincoln was the headers and orh. Other than that same mods are on both.

Keeping that in mind 4v's are supposed to respond better to mods. If my car is supposed to put out 285lbs tq & 280hp stock which equates to 228 wtq & 224 whp.

An LSC has 295lbs tq and 290hp which equates to 236lbs tq & 232whp. The only difference motor wise between the two is the dual exhaust. I not only did a dual exhaust but I deleted the third resonator/cat and put straight thru mufflers on which lessen restriction. Right there I should have been a tick higher than the LSC numbers. Not much, but a hp or two.

Then add a tune onto that with the filter and that should have picked up an additional 10hp & 10tq at the wheels. Some may call BS, but my stang picked up MUCH more with a simple tune with a dyno sheet to back those numbers up. Again a 4v is supposed to respond better to mods than a 2v so the numbers I figured were conservative expectations.

So that should have put me close to the 250whp & 250wtq range. Something is definitely off.

Maybe the fact the run was at 94% may have changed things with a 55% humidity. Also it says 0 SAE smoothing so is that why the numbers are low?

Regardless my car should have put out better numbers than a stock LSC since it has more mods.....plain and simple.

 

[98LSC32V]

Stock Mark VIII dynos around 220rwhp in proper tuned up condition, it is a different platform than the Mustang so it can't be compared. It has the power robbing 4r70w as well as the IRS and a two piece driveshaft. Your numbers are fine, take it to the track and see what it runs, stop dyno racing. If the car traps a good MPH that's all that matters. I figure out how much horsepower I gain from mods at the track based off the MPH...

 

[driller]

Regardless my car should have put out better numbers than a stock LSC since it has more mods.....plain and simple.

The fact remains you don't know what YOUR car's numbers were before the mods.

I revert back to my statement that if it were that easy to get 260 RWHP there would be a LOT more 13 second Mark VIIIs out there. The fact is there are a lot of Mark VIIIs with chips, cat-back exhausts and any air filter setup you could think of that will never come close to those type of dyno numbers and even less that can do a sub 14 seconds in the 1/4 mile.

You can disagree but I am only stating my experience and observations.

 

[ripped camel]

Stock Mark VIII dynos around 220rwhp in proper tuned up condition, it is a different platform than the Mustang so it can't be compared. It has the power robbing 4r70w as well as the IRS and a two piece driveshaft. Your numbers are fine, take it to the track and see what it runs, stop dyno racing. If the car traps a good MPH that's all that matters. I figure out how much horsepower I gain from mods at the track based off the MPH...

True. I'm not basing it off that, I'm just a little peeved my 2v GT was more responsive to mods when everyone used to boast about how wonderous the 4v was and how the 2v didn't even compare when it came to power gained from mods.

The fact remains you don't know what YOUR car's numbers were before the mods.

I revert back to my statement that if it were that easy to get 260 RWHP there would be a LOT more 13 second Mark VIIIs out there. The fact is there are a lot of Mark VIIIs with chips, cat-back exhausts and any air filter setup you could think of that will never come close to those type of dyno numbers and even less that can do a sub 14 seconds in the 1/4 mile.

You can disagree but I am only stating my experience and observations.

That's true driller, I don't know what my before mods were. I wasn't arguing with you just stating what makes no sense. If Cobra's with our engines put out waaay better numbers why do ours lack so much?

 

[98LSC32V]

True. I'm not basing it off that, I'm just a little peeved my 2v GT was more responsive to mods when everyone used to boast about how wonderous the 4v was and how the 2v didn't even compare when it came to power gained from mods.



That's true driller, I don't know what my before mods were. I wasn't arguing with you just stating what makes no sense. If Cobra's with our engines put out waaay better numbers why do ours lack so much?

1. Cobra intake cams are a lot more aggressive
2. Cobra intake manifold is a lot better
3. Stock Cobra exhaust manifolds are better
4. Stock cobra exhaust better in general
5. Huge drivetrain loss with Mark VIII platform

Stock Mark VIII's will dyno 220-230rwhp and Stock 96-98 Cobra dyno 255-265rwhp.