Buy domestic my @#*

B

Barwick

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#%@!(*

With all the BS friggin stupid union idiots and their cohorts around here with their stupid "Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign!!!" and "Buy American" bumper stickers and all that crap, about a year and a half ago I decided (against my better judgement) to buy a Lincoln LS.

And that's where the troubles started...

First thing, drivers side rear window won't go down. Cost to repair: ~$300 (you have to replace the whole mechanism... go Ford...).

Next, drivers side wheel bearing takes a dump. Cost to repair: ~$250

Next, engine starts hesitating. Turns out to be something that should NEVER go wrong on a car, EVER... valve cover gaskets. Cost to repair (if I hadn't done both of them myself and blown a ton of my own time): $1500.

Along with the stupid valve cover gaskets, Ford's brilliant "Let's put an ignition coil on EVERY cylinder!!!" idea resulted in me replacing them by my own labor one at a time (I'm up to four now), at a "reduced" price of a little over $50 apiece, total cost (with my own labor): $200+

Oh, wait, passenger side wheel bearing. Cost to repair: ~$250

Drivers side heated seat doesn't work anymore. Haven't even bothered to replace this, I'm scared to see what it'd cost.

Airbag clockspring went (that's great...) cost to repair: $350

Drivers side front upper control arm went next, cost to repair: $300

And, now today, on my way to lunch, what happens? Rod knock......
..........COST TO REPAIR: FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!!!

So, in short... #@(*% YOU FORD!!!

Way to introduce me to the world of domestic automobiles. I've owned TWELVE freaking RX-7's (you know, those notoriously unreliable cars that have little gremlins causing electrical problems, and rotary motors that are touchy as crazyGoNuts?), and I've been MORE frustrated with this piece of crap Ford than those TWELVE RX-7's combined.
 
Barwick said:
#%@!(*

With all the BS friggin stupid union idiots and their cohorts around here with their stupid "Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign!!!" and "Buy American" bumper stickers and all that crap, about a year and a half ago I decided (against my better judgement) to buy a Lincoln LS.

And that's where the troubles started...

First thing, drivers side rear window won't go down. Cost to repair: ~$300 (you have to replace the whole mechanism... go Ford...).

Next, drivers side wheel bearing takes a dump. Cost to repair: ~$250

Next, engine starts hesitating. Turns out to be something that should NEVER go wrong on a car, EVER... valve cover gaskets. Cost to repair (if I hadn't done both of them myself and blown a ton of my own time): $1500.

Along with the stupid valve cover gaskets, Ford's brilliant "Let's put an ignition coil on EVERY cylinder!!!" idea resulted in me replacing them by my own labor one at a time (I'm up to four now), at a "reduced" price of a little over $50 apiece, total cost (with my own labor): $200+

Oh, wait, passenger side wheel bearing. Cost to repair: ~$250

Drivers side heated seat doesn't work anymore. Haven't even bothered to replace this, I'm scared to see what it'd cost.

Airbag clockspring went (that's great...) cost to repair: $350

Drivers side front upper control arm went next, cost to repair: $300

And, now today, on my way to lunch, what happens? Rod knock......
..........COST TO REPAIR: FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!!!

So, in short... #@(*% YOU FORD!!!

Way to introduce me to the world of domestic automobiles. I've owned TWELVE freaking RX-7's (you know, those notoriously unreliable cars that have little gremlins causing electrical problems, and rotary motors that are touchy as crazyGoNuts?), and I've been MORE frustrated with this piece of crap Ford than those TWELVE RX-7's combined.
Click to expand...

Why don't you tell us how you really feel ? :p

Kidding aside, sorry to hear you have had so many problems. I have had 2 LS's and have really had no issues that were not covered by warranty. Of course what do i go and do? Sell my LS and get a BMW. Go figure :)
 
Kelleyo said:
Why don't you tell us how you really feel ? :p

Kidding aside, sorry to hear you have had so many problems. I have had 2 LS's and have really had no issues that were not covered by warranty. Of course what do i go and do? Sell my LS and get a BMW. Go figure :)
Click to expand...

That's what I should've done, spent the money on a BMW... parts would be more expensive, but at least they'd break at like 1/10th the rate.
 
Yeah once in awhile we get lemons. My 04 LSV8 has had enough problems in the 36,000+ miles I have owned it that it is rapidly approaching my "worst car I owned" winner. 89 SHO and 67 Dodge were my worst so far. Best I think was 79 TA and an 86 T'Bird and maybe 96 Impala.

You have owned a lot of RX 7s, did you replace them due to problems or you just like a "new" car now and again?

What year is your LS? The older models had more problems in general from waht I can read from this list. But my 04 sure has disappointed me, tranny, feul sender, wheel bearing, Advance trac, coils, sunroof, seat backs etc.

But as always, you will hear more complaints than good stuff because we are quiet when we are fat and happy.

Sorry your LS is such a letdown, and hoping mine is done with it's "teething pains"

Jim Henderson
 
While I agree that all cars break, I think there are some quality and design issues with the LS. It seems a little more likely to have issues than other cars I've had. The parts are also almost all dealer only parts and fairly expensive.

I've had a few cars with well over 100k miles:

82 VW Rabbit
88 VW Jetta
79 Mazda GLC
88 Mazda RX-7
00 Chevy Camaro
00 Chevy Blazer
88 Toyota Corolla
96 Toyota Camry
99 Saturn

These didn't have nearly the issues my LS has. That being said. I really enjoy my LS when it's working correctly. I consider that the price I have to pay to drive something I really like.
 
Barwick said:
That's what I should've done, spent the money on a BMW... parts would be more expensive, but at least they'd break at like 1/10th the rate.
Click to expand...

BMWs arent so great. They have their fair share of troubles. (electrical troubles, the nikasil issue a few years back and so forth)
 
well what year and how many miles does your LS have and also if you got it used did you buy it from a dealer or a private seller and 1 more thing how long was it since you started to notice the issues comming up.
 
93' Blue on blue said:
BMWs arent so great. They have their fair share of troubles. (electrical troubles, the nikasil issue a few years back and so forth)
Click to expand...

Yep, My BMW Z3 has periodic issues with a Transmission light and a brake light. These appear to be a loose connection gremlin. I am experiencing ZERO problems with the transmission or brakes. The lights frequently come on after hitting a bump.

They also come on and go off as they see fit. :shifty:
 
well, so far I've found an 80k used replacement motor for $1000, plus $250 shipping, plus probably $1500+ to install if I have my buddy do it at his shop.

Or I (against my better judgement, again) try to pull and replace the motor myself. I think that's a bad idea, but with the lack of $1500 sitting around just waiting to get burned up on my POS Ford, that might just have to happen.

Of course, I could just drop the friggin' POS alltogether and buy a '94 Volvo 850 for like $3000, and get another 10 miles per gallon and a car that's every bit as safe as the LS.
 
Like said above, all cars break. I have been fortunate in mine, only 1 or 2 minor issues that were covered by warranty without question. My warranty is up in about 500 more miles though so I'm wondering if I should get out while I'm ahead and start looking at something else.
 
Barwick said:
Of course, I could just drop the friggin' POS alltogether and buy a '94 Volvo 850 for like $3000, and get another 10 miles per gallon and a car that's every bit as safe as the LS.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you should.

It's a car. Stuff breaks.
 
Next, engine starts hesitating. Turns out to be something that should NEVER go wrong on a car, EVER... valve cover gaskets
Click to expand...
Contrary to what you might think you know, valve cover gaskets are common replacement parts on ALL cars.

You probably got rid of the RX7's because you didn't feel like replacing the brushes (do the same job as piston rings in an ordinary engine) in the engine that wear out every 30k miles.

Cars break. Siht happens. Next time, If you can't afford to fix it, dont buy it.

Maybe you should re-evaluate your driving and maintanence habits as well, if you're wondering why that rod bearing fell apart.
 
NYC LSC said:
Sounds to me like you should.

It's a car. Stuff breaks.
Click to expand...

Nah dude, stuff breaks yeah, but this is over the top. In all the cars I've had and every person in my family (who've all owned imports for the most part), I've never seen so much crap go wrong on one car. And stupid crap too...
 
97stscaddy said:
Contrary to what you might think you know, valve cover gaskets are common replacement parts on ALL cars.

You probably got rid of the RX7's because you didn't feel like replacing the brushes (do the same job as piston rings in an ordinary engine) in the engine that wear out every 30k miles.

Cars break. Siht happens. Next time, If you can't afford to fix it, dont buy it.

Maybe you should re-evaluate your driving and maintanence habits as well, if you're wondering why that rod bearing fell apart.
Click to expand...

Well, would you like to look at the maintenance receipts? I've treated this thing better than every other car I've had, and this crap still happened.

And no, I've never had to replace a valve cover gasket on any vehicle I've had, ever. It's never caused a problem like it does on the LS. The only time I've ever changed them is when I pulled the valve cover off to do maintenance like valve adjustments.

Oh, and don't go bashing on RX-7's if you don't know what you're talking about... 1) they're called apex seals, they bear no resemblance to brushes 2) they don't go bad every 30k miles, unless you're burning an extremely lean air/fuel ratio and pushing 750 hp at 35lbs boost on your 1.3L motor. I've had them fail, but it was because of an improper tune from when I bought the car (actually, it was a ghetto tune, simply a rising rate fuel pressure regulator with slightly larger and insufficient fuel injectors). I knew I was toying with disaster with that car, and expected it to happen sooner or later.
 
Out of the cars you listed the one with the most problems (LS) is also the most complicated and feature rich of the group. That said My LS has in fact been the most troublesome car I have had with less than 100K. I have had auto-wiper issues, airbag 3 times, heated seat (easy fix on your own), and now that stupid DCCV all by 53K. I love the car though so I will continue to maintain it. Consumer reports says to avoid 00,01,03, and 04 models because of reliability ratings. I just happen to have an 02--the only year not to avoid.
 
I belong to many, many automobile boards.

A lot of people come to them to find solutions to issues. It gives all boards a sense that there are many issues.....

And each board has a couple of really bad cases.

To generalize seems silly. Fix it or don't - but move on.
 
Of course, you are going to hear the most from whiners. On the LS I am becoming a whiner, so take what I say with a grain of salt and realize I am whining because I am not used to cars giving me trouble.

I am of the opinion, if you can't afford to fix the car, there is something wrong with the car.

This is why I have such a problem with the "Fine Luxury German Automobiles". They are very expensive to buy, which may not be a problem, and they are expensive to fix, which also may not be a problem, but in my experience they break down just as much if not more than average and then it costs more than you can afford. In my opinion a high end "quality" auto should be far more reliable and require less repairs than average. If I am paying twice the price I want at least 50% better reliability and durability. This is not often the case from what I have seen or experienced in the past 30 years. Seen plenty of Benzs and BMWs "eat their owners out of house and home", that is ridiculous. Also take a good look at who is on top of the reliability poles, Hyundai was a joke when they came to America, look at them now.

I had high hopes for my Lincoln LS. I like to buy American and I feel American cars have come up a lot in quality and reliability and are an underrated value. Most of my American cars in the past 30+ years have been pretty good to me, the LS has dropped the ball.

The LS has all been handled under warranty but a "fine" car should not give anyone the amount of troubles or time in shop, 5 weeks in two years, that the LS has. Normally I would speculate that my LS might be on the edge of lemonhood. But it seems like the LS in general has more share of problems from reading than what I expect.

When a car starts to cost more than I think it is worth to maintain, then it becomes too expensive. I got rid of my 89 SHO because it started to cost me over $2000 per year to keep it running and that was with me doing the routine stuff on my own.

The LS at least in my experience has fallen far short on reliability. I hope nothing else happens, but for now most of the major stuff that can go wrong has. All I am waiting for is engine trouble to really p me off. Hope the tranny keeps working since the dealer dropped the tranny and did significant work 35K ago.

No the argument of "if you can't afford the repairs" doesn't hold water. There are some cars(many cheap ones) that seem almost never to need repairs. That is why they are taking over the world market. If we Americans don't get our act together, the next world beaters will be China and maybe even India. So far Japan has taken over the lead and Korea is chomping at their heels. There has been off and on talk of Ford shutting down Lincoln, reliability issues will hasten that possibility and may be part of the cause for the talk

A quality car should not cost you a lot more than an average car to keep and maintain.

I got to quit whining, it bothers me

Jim Henderson
 
I think you have to look at it from a "total cost of ownership" perspective. You simply can not buy another vehicle with the same level of features and performance for anything near the same price. Even after you add the higher than normal cost of repairs back in, it's still one of the best values on the market.
 
Fortunately Lincolns depreciate like rocks so Initial purchase is usually good. So far almost nothing in repairs have come out of pocket, but my warranty finally is up. Any new repairs come out of my hide. If I had to pay for a tranny rebuild, new grill, new seatback, wheel bearing, fuel sender, loose headliner, 8 coils etc, the cost of ownership would be pretty bad And I would be screaming.

It is easy to get better performance than the LS often for less $. Also feature wise some of them are gadgets and useless in my mind, like the automatic seat and wheel positioning and automatic wipers. My old Impala and SHO had some better features and good performance and more comfortable to boot, for about half the list price. Course time and inflation skews that picture so I will say the LS has a nice combo of features and resonable performance and a rock bottom price, that is why I bought it in the first place. However, now we have cars like the Avalon which is nicely featured and can out run the LS, so the gap is narrowed or flipped the other way.

I do buy Americanmore often than not. I have owned 3 Japanese cars and 9 American. I buy American because I do believe the overall cost of ownership is better than Japanese and way better than German. However the LS like I said, has dropped the ball so far. It has pushed me enough that as I look back on my car ownership history, I am starting to think I liked my 3 GM products better. But that is unfair, since 3 of the 5 Fords have done fine. The more exotic(SHO LS) Fords are the ones I have had problems with which really reinforces my philosophy that it isn't the brand of car that causes problems it is the degree to which they stray away from standard engines etc.

With the improvements in Hyundai and Toyota, they become awful interesting but vanilla cars, but at least for now I still will probably buy American on the next go round, but probably not a Lincoln. It will be several years though, unless something blows up.

Whine whine whine,

Jim Henderson
 
Before you consider buying a BMW, especially a used one I will tell you, they are expensive as hell to maintain. My wifes 2000 323i with 82,000 miles has had about $3,000 in repairs in the last year. I can't even change the oil in it because I don't have the equipment to reset the computer that tells you when the oil service is due. I still need to fix the front window regulators, They haven't worked right since we had the car new and were supposedly repaired twice under warranty. I bought my 2003 LS 18 months ago and it has been a great car. It has 53,000 miles on it. I considered a BMW 540i sport with a 6 speed manual but it was way more expensive than the LS and might have cost me a fortune to maintain. As far as buying American, I believe in supporting the workers of this country. Unlike our president who wants amnesty for millions of illegal aliens and does nothing while our American manufacturers close plants in the US so they can move production to Canada, Mexico and other countries that provide cheap labor.
 
If American car companies are going to keep making such crappy cars I would rather them move the plants, that way its not an American to blame for such poor craftsmanship and development. I myself think as of tonight I might be needing to replace my 3rd battery in just over the year I had this thing, and I didn't do anything that would be drawing more juice at all either. Goes to figure I had this looked into at a ford dealer and it just seems that every motor craft battery I had so far has crapped out on me. I think with the 3 other cars I owned I replaced "A" battery once.
 
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