why it failed 2000-2006 lincoln-ls

chocolat1701 said:
hi guys I just came across this link online. very interesting topic from the GM guys regarding the failure of our LS. http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f57/why-failed-2000-2006-lincoln-ls-115949/ what do you guys think. some of these post are right on the money.
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Like I would listen to a bunch of GM guys discussing the demise of a vehicle they didn't own. Like the one guy that said it was based on the Fusion????? Shows what he knows. Like GM isn't losing their shorts on the CTS. They have something like a 200+ day supply.

The LS failed due to many factors, the largest two being the dealers and Ford's decision to not export the car to Europe. Nassar waaaaay overspent in a buying frenzy (Jag, Range Rover, Aston, Volvo) right before the world economy went south. Ford needed to cut as much as they could to survive. The LS cost waaaay too much to produce when considering USA sales only so guess what got the axe? I had the opportunity to talk to some Lincoln suits back in the day and they had high hopes for the LS. Problem was Lincoln dealers had no idea how to market to the under 45 crowd. They refused to pay for advertising so the car didn't sell and since the car didn't sell they refused to pay for advertising; rinse and repeat. There are other reasons and there is no real simple answer.

Had Ford the money and sales were better the LS would probably be alive today.
 
It still is alive today. As vehicles evolve, everything has been getting uglier and more complex. The LS would've done nothing other than fall victim of poor design by some dumbass engineer in attempt to compete nowadays with what they believe is style.

Now for the sake of the possibility that the body of the LS would have received very minor changes, yet the powertrain had been updated throughout time... that'd be another story.
 
SoulSoak said:
It still is alive today. As vehicles evolve, everything has been getting uglier and more complex. The LS would've done nothing other than fall victim of poor design by some dumbass engineer in attempt to compete nowadays with what they believe is style.
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Too bad engineers don't design vehicles or systems. The bean counters do trying to meet gummint regulations.
 
And, real engineers definitely don't do styling...
 
chocolat1701 said:
very interesting topic from the GM guys regarding the failure of our LS. some of these post are right on the money.
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I skimmed the first page. I only saw a lot of uninformed opinions and incorrect facts. I think only one post had anything valid to say. In the end the LS and Lincoln in general came under scrutiny When Allen Mullay came on as CEO and began reorganizing the companies' structure.
 
SoulSoak said:
It still is alive today. As vehicles evolve, everything has been getting uglier and more complex. The LS would've done nothing other than fall victim of poor design by some dumbass engineer in attempt to compete nowadays with what they believe is style.

Now for the sake of the possibility that the body of the LS would have received very minor changes, yet the powertrain had been updated throughout time... that'd be another story.
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LS4me said:
Too bad engineers don't design vehicles or systems. The bean counters do trying to meet gummint regulations.
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+1 As an engineer myself, I don't appreciate the "dumbass" comment.
 
bike70ride said:
+1 As an engineer myself, I don't appreciate the "dumbass" comment.
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This may not be the board for you. There are plenty on here who have never engineered anything that are often telling us about how dumb we are.
 
joegr said:
And, real engineers definitely don't do styling...
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Lies, they style the form to fit the function. Now, color schemes and finishes? Naaa, you're doing good to get something primer-grey from an engineer. That's where a designer comes into play. Although with cars it's backwards. First a designer makes a car out of clay, then an engineer tries to figure out how to cram 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound can.

Or as how I always heard it: To an engineer it must work, to a designer it must look like it works!
 
Well apparently I hit some nerves here..

I suppose I should rephrase and say that the "dumbass" remark was intended for the individual('s) responsible for the destruction of a beautiful car.

Apparently I don't know the proper titles or position terminology that reflects the process of creation or change in the automotive industry. So... sorry to you engineers...

F*** the.. "design team"..? Lol
 
SoulSoak said:
Well apparently I hit some nerves here..

I suppose I should rephrase and say that the "dumbass" remark was intended for the individual('s) responsible for the destruction of a beautiful car.

Apparently I don't know the proper titles or position terminology that reflects the process of creation or change in the automotive industry. So... sorry to you engineers...

F*** the.. "design team"..? Lol
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It wasn't design or engineering (unless you consider the high cost of the platform and suspension designed by an F1 suspension engineer) that killed the LS. It was basically an over-extended company with over-ambitious sales forecasts. Lincoln actually thought they could steal some German buyers. They found out before Cadillac (who is still trying and failing) that that ain't gonna happen. I know now that I've had a German car I'm not coming back. American cars just don't have the fit and finish of the Germans (at least BMW).
 
artist decide what the car looks like, the engineers have to reel back them in to what actually works in reality...
 
I'm just tired of engineers always getting the blame for when things don't go right, but never any credit for making the impossible actually work. Not saying we don't need artists and architects (I completely agree many engineers are not the least bit interested in aesthetics). But for every architectural or artistic dream, the engineer is left trying to figure out how to make it work in the confines of the arch/artist concept and not endanger the life, safety and welfare of the general public who will ultimately use or be affected by the end design. Ultimately, it is the ENGINEER's license and professional reputation that is on the line at the end of the day.

Just something to think about...

Carry on!
 
LS4me said:
It wasn't design or engineering (unless you consider the high cost of the platform and suspension designed by an F1 suspension engineer) that killed the LS. It was basically an over-extended company with over-ambitious sales forecasts. Lincoln actually thought they could steal some German buyers. They found out before Cadillac (who is still trying and failing) that that ain't gonna happen. I know now that I've had a German car I'm not coming back. American cars just don't have the fit and finish of the Germans (at least BMW).
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My wife has a 2003 Passat and I have to admit the fit and finish of that car are considerably better than either my 2006 LS or my 2012 FX4. But, it's a maintenance whore and can be quite temperamental. American automobiles have come a long way since my 80 TBird and 87 Cougar, but they still are not up to par with anything in the German camp IMHO. Doesn't mean I won't buy them, however! :)
 
Finally being able to read the link makes me disappointed that the LS didn't go further, but I think that some of the responses are spot on. Like more power, maybe more significant changes on the Gen 2 and Ford letting Lincoln play in jaguar's toy box etc. etc. etc.

I like the one response where the guy said that the cars seems to be unknown except to LS enthusiasts. ha!
 
When you get a discussion from the butt-hurt mullett brigade at GM you must expect a great deal of misinformation and just plain BS coming at you. Along with a very few small lonely facts.

KS
 
bike70ride said:
But, it's a maintenance whore and can be quite temperamental.
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The last few people I know who bought BMW's have had nothing but ongoing electrical issues. One actually had to have the bottom end rebuilt at 30K-mi cause the bearings started to fail. I hear similar horror stories from other cars released under that VW umbrella (Audi, Porsche, etc).

Every Mercedes owner I've ever talked to always complains about getting butt-hurt on maintenance costs, even simple oil changes.
 
Marketing.

The LS had lost its inertia from its launch sales for what everyone above has mentioned. But, even with its flaws, reliability, production cost and price tag, anything can be sold if you can be convincing.

Apple is a super fine example of marketing Genius. At this point, Apple can use a crayon and write iPhone on a brick and sell it for $1000. All they would do is advertise it to seem desireable.

See, one of the commenters on that GM site pointed out many things the LS lacked. Manual for V8 for instance. But, coming up short in features has never stopped an Acura from selling. Being one of the most unreliable luxury car manufacturers has never stopped BMW. Having an over priced tag has never stopped Lexus.
Marketing however, has stopped many manufacturers from making potentially great cars. Never ever underestimate the power of gullibility.

Lincoln is still selling like crap. They have improved since 2006 quite a bit, but their marketing sucks.
 
Also, for a V8 to only produce 252HP in an industry where more fuel efficient 3.5L V6 engines are turning 230HP, and as of post LS demise 270 HP (Altima) 275HP (Accord) 286 HP(TL-S), that 280HP revision was a joke. I am sorry. But 280 HP and less fuel economy? RWD or FWD wont be a big selling point, after all, the LS IS a f***king sports car (its in the name) and Speed/power is much more of a selling point in sports cars than economy sedans.

Just saying. 280 HP in 2006 on a V8. A FREAKING V8. No. Just NO. This thing should have played out like this: 280HP in 2000. And by 2003, 325HP V8. And by 2008, 360HP V8 / 265HP 3.5V6
By 2012, the LS would have the 280HP V6, 370 HP V8, And an "S" edition with 420HP Coyote.

Why 3 models by 2012, is because assuming the car would been successful with proper marketing and specs, Ford can have room now to give consumers more choices while still making bank on the car. In fact having these 3 levels of choices on Lincolns ONLY sport car would be that much more important.
You can see where I'm going with this.

BY 2012
280HP V6 / Luxury package ~ $33,000 Base
370HP V8 / suspension upgraded / few extra features as standard / Luxury Sport package ~ $39,000 Base
420HP Coyote / Suspension / Interior / Fully loaded / Two tone leather with words "Lincoln Racing" stitched into the seat / Racing package Base, no further options. ~ $48,000

AND THAT!!! is how you make a Freaking LUXURY SPORT car to whoop your competitions ass all day, every day.
 
2012 Lincoln LS V8 "S" Edition. 420HP Coyote ~ $48,000.

283459_282833175190791_1951893810_n.jpg

283459_282833175190791_1951893810_n.jpg
 
O.k., the decals are a bit much. It's still luxury Sport so that spoiler would have to go. And the Ride height is too low, but the rest is epic.
 
lincoln_zero said:
O.k., the decals are a bit much. It's still luxury Sport so that spoiler would have to go. And the Ride height is too low, but the rest is epic.
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Not if it was an LS GTR track car designed to compete with things like M3 GTRs...
 
LSFrank said:
Not if it was an LS GTR track car designed to compete with things like M3 GTRs...
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True True, you are right.

The price tag would have to be higher then. Something like $78,000 base for the Track LS. And it would have a turbo coyote, putting down 550HP. OMG... that would have been amazing. Maybe in an alternate universe this Track LS exists..

The 420HP "S" edition would be widely available for $48,000. The one in the pic, track edition, would only have like 500 made ~ $78,000.
 
Realistically, I'd imagine the "S" to be in the high 50s at least, considering you could price out 06s for high 40s. *You* may think "but it's just the sport version meant to have fewer amenities and luxuries" but in reality, if you're holding that kind of money and you're looking at luxury brands, speed isn't going to be your only concern. Look at the Jag XF-R. You get few options with a lot of standard equipment and it's already in the 95-105 range.
 
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