This will happen just because it hasn't before

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pearl98

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Well I came up with the conclusion that the Intech is/isn't a good engine in relation to the fact its not cheap to get power from. However it is a well built engine for longevity.

Mercedes makes a power train that solve the performance and no manual trans problem. Either the CLK 55 AMG n/a engine or the E55 AMG charged engine. Both of which make a far great power output with 1 less valve per cyclinder, and the charged has room for boost increase to well above 600. torque as well is very close inline with the hp numbers has mods are done. For the power distribution a 5 speed controllable automatic. Which works quiet well i was pleased when I test drive the clk55. As close to a manual as ur gonna get minus the BMW SMG trans.

Know I know that this is a far out idea, but the way I look at there are many people in the world that do extremely odd things to cars and they end up lookin cool. So I figured :q:q:q:q why not mix German engineering with a car 100 pounds heavier then the car it came out of and a T-bird suspension.

I ask anyone who reads this if you decided to give input please don't bash my idea!! Help with things such as: wiring for the electronics of the car verses not having the stock ecm anymore, and what I might need to watch out for while doing this etc.

Thanks to all that help with the idea.

Norton
 
to clarify, a merc engine is going in a mark VIII?
will, anything can happen with time and money!
 
Yes a Benz engine in a lincoln, and money and time... lol no lie. But the 462HP and 516lbft torque charged engine is only about 3 grand for one with 85k on it, and the trans is about the same(understandable its not a normal trany). I have a friend from a different forum that can get me a PCM to control the transmission and engine so all I'm worried about is putting the to harnesses together or how to run them side by side. Essentially to make the cabin appear to be a normal Mark with all the buttons working the same, but under the hood theres a beast of a V8.
 
does the eec comp in the mark viii run anything but the engine and transmission? i dont really think so... a few things in the car would need to know how fast the car is moving, abs, but other than that, leave everything else to the merc pcm.
 
Good point, so minus an annoying wiring harness ill have to make and engine and trans mounts it should work rather well, all ill need is a 3.46 LSD diff
 
why not just do a terminator engine, they can make 700+hp with a pulley swap and tune plus a few other relatively small changes, then you have even more power and its still a fomoco product?
 
Moes8 said:
why not just do a terminator engine, they can make 700+hp with a pulley swap and tune plus a few other relatively small changes, then you have even more power and its still a fomoco product?
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And actually realistic to swap...:rolleyes:
Besides A Termi Mark VIII would be awesome.
 
Obviously, you haven't done your homework...


I could sit here and tell you why it won't work, but... well, I'm just not that motivated.


Learn about Mercedes' MOST network. And realize it's not just a Multimedia gateway. The engine ECU talks to other components on that network as well.

You think the LS guys have it hard with swapping a non LS engine and having all the electronics like dash cluster work? They have it easy by comparison...


And just to give you an idea of what you're dealing with when it comes to MOST and how CANBus works over it, and just how integrated the two are.

I didn't link the images as I made them nice and large for you to see.



http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W-iA5wPDMFs/TThfp8wYz7I/AAAAAAAACMk/QJKOuPnnnh0/s800/w82102051dc.jpeg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_W-iA5wPDMFs/TThfp9eT2RI/AAAAAAAACMg/L-MTH2iZFS4/s800/w15002050dd.jpeg

I puled these off my EVTM.
 
^^ terminator sounds cool^^ and you think making performance w/ an AMG engine to be cheap(or the task of making it work for that matter). i'm sorry to sound like your avg forum Nazi douche-bag, but the headache is not worth the cash savings.

ps. not bashing but merely spending my last $0.02
 
Frogman said:
Obviously, you haven't done your homework...


I could sit here and tell you why it won't work, but... well, I'm just not that motivated.


Learn about Mercedes' MOST network. And realize it's not just a Multimedia gateway. The engine ECU talks to other components on that network as well.

You think the LS guys have it hard with swapping a non LS engine and having all the electronics like dash cluster work? They have it easy by comparison...


And just to give you an idea of what you're dealing with when it comes to MOST and how CANBus works over it, and just how integrated the two are.

I didn't link the images as I made them nice and large for you to see.



http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W-iA5wPDMFs/TThfp8wYz7I/AAAAAAAACMk/QJKOuPnnnh0/s800/w82102051dc.jpeg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_W-iA5wPDMFs/TThfp9eT2RI/AAAAAAAACMg/L-MTH2iZFS4/s800/w15002050dd.jpeg

I puled these off my EVTM.
Click to expand...

thats too bad. i dont know anything about the mercedes engine, but it seems like all that stuff would end costing alot of money if it were ever to work.
 
hell why not this?

jzswap.jpg
 
Frogman said:
Obviously, you haven't done your homework...


I could sit here and tell you why it won't work, but... well, I'm just not that motivated.


Learn about Mercedes' MOST network. And realize it's not just a Multimedia gateway. The engine ECU talks to other components on that network as well.

You think the LS guys have it hard with swapping a non LS engine and having all the electronics like dash cluster work? They have it easy by comparison...


And just to give you an idea of what you're dealing with when it comes to MOST and how CANBus works over it, and just how integrated the two are.

I didn't link the images as I made them nice and large for you to see.



http://lh4.ggpht.com/_W-iA5wPDMFs/TThfp8wYz7I/AAAAAAAACMk/QJKOuPnnnh0/s800/w82102051dc.jpeg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_W-iA5wPDMFs/TThfp9eT2RI/AAAAAAAACMg/L-MTH2iZFS4/s800/w15002050dd.jpeg

I puled these off my EVTM.
Click to expand...

Well all that is very true.... Only for the fact that I wont have a stock ECM be it mega squirt or :q:q:q:q maybe I'll just have my computer genius brother make a board that will run the engine. Either way what you said isn't false if i use the stock ECM. So take that out of the picture and make a computer to run just the engine alone and the transmission alone I don't see it being a problem.

And the terminator engine not a bad idea minus its price but I've always been about being different and making it work. SOOOO when i get it work how ever long that takes ill take a video put it on YOU TUBE and I'll post it on here to show that frogman wasn't completely correct with his response.
 
And its all about wiring so if you take the time and find the loops holes of wiring each sensor etc. That engine is just another engine only mercedes made it hard to crack, doesn't mean its not possible.
 
I read about this old Ford pickup.... may have been a Chevy.... they look the same to me back in the 50's. Anyway the dude wanted to do a Benz AMG V-6 engine in it and ended up having to use the entire Benz and carve the trucks shell to fit to make it run right. They first tried it using two FAST full on management systems but the engin would refuse to run right and the trans wouldnt shift properly.


I can understand being different but your first couple sentances kinda dont make sense. You say its cause the 4.6 is expensive to make power from. While that is a little true for the $9000 you would have to spend (or more) to get the Benz parts to work you could have a blown and stroked C head Teksid making well over 600 RWHP, mod the trans, build up the brakes and add chasis strength and still have enough cash left to buy your friend beers that now wants to kill you after helping install the motor and trans. :D
 
LaserSVT said:
I read about this old Ford pickup.... may have been a Chevy.... they look the same to me back in the 50's. Anyway the dude wanted to do a Benz AMG V-6 engine in it and ended up having to use the entire Benz and carve the trucks shell to fit to make it run right. They first tried it using two FAST full on management systems but the engin would refuse to run right and the trans wouldnt shift properly.


I can understand being different but your first couple sentances kinda dont make sense. You say its cause the 4.6 is expensive to make power from. While that is a little true for the $9000 you would have to spend (or more) to get the Benz parts to work you could have a blown and stroked C head Teksid making well over 600 RWHP, mod the trans, build up the brakes and add chasis strength and still have enough cash left to buy your friend beers that now wants to kill you after helping install the motor and trans. :D
Click to expand...


LOL I agree and thats true. But as I said I'm still gonna try so when it happens it will be shown its possible. And with the transmission I already have someone to get a pcm he designed that is strictly for that trans and works great they have done it in a few cars they have built. So I guess the engine would be the problem... either way its not somethin I'm doing anything soon, for all I know I'll end up wiring it on and engine trans craddle to see if it will even work.
 
Well, it's no worse an idea than some of these kids who put a $10k plus system in a geo metro... I love marks, alot, and I also like unique ideas. Some are meant to be pipedreams though. So, I still see it as a pretty lame "cuz I can" idea, the transmission alone is worth twice the value of the car. I vote: Buy a '04 cobra, put the drivetrain in the mark, which is a more sane idea, then, put the amg drivetrain in the cobra, which will make you a much more respectable performance platform, and will also piss off the ford guys, benz snobs, and the mustang guys, the SVT and AMG guys, and piss off the import haters just the same... Then you could sell the cobra to a rich basterd and do it all again if you wanted. Plus, and I do mean PLUS, because this is what makes it all worth it, you can say "cuz I can" twice! Once for the money pit mark (call it governator, lots of cash, less performance, but still a terminator at heart), then you get to say it again for the nazi-cobra.


I'm sorry. I realize I just pissed in the froot loops, but I'm not bashing, I'm just giving you a hard time. Do it, post pics, make us eat our words. I'll still laugh though. :)
 
There are lots of things in a Mark that make it special but to me, the big one is the Teksid block. One of the finest blocks ever made and definatly Fords best ever small block. There was never a stronger 4.6, 5.0 or 5.4 block and these blocks can handle ridiculous ammounts of power. With good forged internals and everything I had said before for mods the limiting factor is the trans. If you could afford something stout enough that 5.0 Teksid based boosted stroker to put to the axle then your power levels are only limited by desired mileage. Running over 1200 rwhp could be done on pump gas and 1500+ on race fuel or E85.

Sorry, going into a rant again.

But our motors are something special. SAE 319 modified alloy aluminum and then heat treated, made in Teksid Italy by the company that makes Ferrari motors.
 
pearl98 said:
Well all that is very true.... Only for the fact that I wont have a stock ECM be it mega squirt or :q:q:q:q maybe I'll just have my computer genius brother make a board that will run the engine.
Click to expand...

Make a board to run the engine? Really? You do understand there is a little more work involved into making an engine management computer from scratch, right? It's a little more involved than slapping a bunch of resistors, capacitors and 555 IC's together.

You do realize that manufacturers' engineers rack up thousands of engineer man hours tuning an engine, yes?

That first paragraph of yours tells me you really don't know WTF you're talking about.

Either way what you said isn't false if i use the stock ECM.
Click to expand...

I know this.

So take that out of the picture and make a computer to run just the engine alone and the transmission alone I don't see it being a problem.
Click to expand...

Here's to your brother "making" a board to run the engine. I really mean it, no sarcasm involved. If he can build a computer and write all the code to even keep the engine idling, then mad props to him. Of course, I'm curious how big that circuit breadboard will be.

And the terminator engine not a bad idea minus its price but I've always been about being different and making it work. SOOOO when i get it work how ever long that takes ill take a video put it on YOU TUBE and I'll post it on here to show that frogman wasn't completely correct with his response.
Click to expand...

Just because it's different, it don't mean it's useful or well thought out.

But you go right ahead and spend 15-20-25K dollars just to prove some guy on the internet wrong. After all, proving yourself on the Internet is the epitome of proving one's self, right?

But please, do it relatively soon. I'm an old fart with absolutely no Mercedes knowledge. I'd be saddened if I died without being proven wrong on this.

In the end, people will still wonder WTF you were thinking... or, if you even were thinking.


pearl98 said:
And its all about wiring so if you take the time and find the loops holes of wiring each sensor etc. That engine is just another engine only mercedes made it hard to crack, doesn't mean its not possible.
Click to expand...


Mercedes didn't make it hard to "crack". You're making it hard to "crack" by trying to reinvent the wheel, what with that engine management computer your genius brother can build in his high tech lab...garage... whatever.

Can you make that engine run with a stand alone off the shelf ECU like say, a MOTEC? Sure. But something tells me you ain't got the green for a $7,000 stand-alone MOTEC ECU.

pearl98 said:
LOL I agree and thats true. But as I said I'm still gonna try so when it happens it will be shown its possible.
Click to expand...

Well... Ok. More power to you. Good luck with it. Seriously. Just remember. I'm old.

And with the transmission I already have someone to get a pcm he designed that is strictly for that trans and works great they have done it in a few cars they have built.
Click to expand...


And who is this whiz that made his own 7G-Tronic transmission control unit? Seriously, Name or company website address would be great.

You seem to know a lot of these types that can build ECU's and TCU's in their spare time. Know anyone who can build me a faster supercomputer in a week or so? The Cray Jaguar in my basement is getting kinda old. I could use a newer one but damn it, I don't want to spend 30 Million Dollars on a new supercomputer when I know of people like you that know people who can build stuff like this in their garage.



So I guess the engine would be the problem... either way its not somethin I'm doing anything soon, for all I know I'll end up wiring it on and engine trans craddle to see if it will even work.
Click to expand...

At least you're starting to realize how... Well, how silly and hard it can be to be "different".

Big Mike said:
Do it, post pics, make us eat our words. I'll still laugh though. :)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold my breath for this project to ever get finished, let alone pictures or videos.
 
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God Frogman I love to watch you get pissed off over an idea I really do enjoy it for some reason which would be the only reason I brought up me having my brother (who does in fact write programs and such, made his own operating system twice) make a computer is to watch you spaz on it lol. NO $HIT he can't.... anyways it never hurts to try KEEP YOU $HIT to yourself and let people do what they do. Your like the grouchie old man that live down the street saying nothings possible just got kill yourself. If I loose out and it never works then laugh but for now WTF IS THE POINT OF TALKIN $HIT ABOUT A THOUGHT that I would like to make happen.

WELL we can close this thread now frogman is on it more then once...

Oh and I GOT THE 190 Cossy running last night great to hear it run.
 
pearl98 said:
God Frogman I love to watch you get pissed off over an idea
Click to expand...

Oh yes... I'm really pissed off at some kid's moronic brain fart. Yup. You sure got me. Whatever will I do with myself? The horror! The pain! The hate!

I really do enjoy it for some reason which would be the only reason I brought up me having my brother (who does in fact write programs and such, made his own operating system twice) make a computer is to watch you spaz on it lol.
Click to expand...

Twice? WTF happened? First one didn't work? Did he forget an argument in the kernel?

What did he call these operating systems? Twiddle dee and Twiddle dumb... V2?

NO $HIT he can't.... anyways it never hurts to try KEEP YOU $HIT to yourself and let people do what they do.
Click to expand...

It sure doesn't hurt to keep your idiotic ideas to yourself. This is oh, so true.

You come to a forum and you post... well, as I said, an idiotic idea. WTF did you expect? People to be impressed about how you want to put a cheesy M113 Engine (that's the in-house designator for the E55 Engine) into a MARK VIII. That's it, isn't it. You obviously don't know the flaws and the money it takes to make that engine powerful from a hole in the ground.



Your like the grouchie old man that live down the street saying nothings possible just got kill yourself.
Click to expand...

"You're" "Grouchy" "lives" "nothing's". Engrish! hard language.

... just got kill myself??? That one just makes no sense.

It's the internet, pinhead. Not everyone is a 16 year old who's impressed by what you call an "idea". As such, not everyone will jump to hug your nuts and congratulate you on your lack of common sense.

If I loose out and it never works then laugh but for now WTF IS THE POINT OF TALKIN $HIT ABOUT A THOUGHT that I would like to make happen.
Click to expand...

That wasn't a thought you had there, kid. What you had there, is commonly known as a "mental fart". At least, it smells like one.

Quick little lesson for you: Just because you can do something, it don't mean you should. Seriously.


WELL we can close this thread now frogman is on it more then once...
Click to expand...

Awww... Finally realized your mental fart stinks to high heaven? At least you're not retarded enough to keep pushing this thing you call an idea. There may be hope for you yet.


Oh and I GOT THE 190 Cossy running last night great to hear it run.
Click to expand...

Ok?... Good for you? What did you do, put that pointy thing into the hole next to the steering column and turn it? What'cha want, a cookie?
 
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