Swift Boat Veterans for Truth 2nd Ad

Kbob said:
And you're grasping at straws. Quit defending the release of these documents, it's just not logical unless you fear the accusations are true. It may not clear everything up, but it should help one way or the other.

And he's not guilty. But in an election, time is of the essence. Kerry is just smoke-screening through a very damaging attack on his campaign, IMHO.

Actually im not defending anything. I dont know if they are something HE can release. I think he should release them if its in his power to do so. They are in the possession of the military - I dont know whats involved in getting those kind of records, but someone please educate me. I would think they would be accessible via FOI act, but clearly they would have been obtained by someone by now if that was the case..........

But all hear from the anti kerry side here - is really just heresay and conjecture. Im asking for some proof is all.

While we are at it -- How about you go after bush for his reasons for going to war in IRAQ --- Most of the reasons he stated prior to the war have proven invalid so far......... Dont misunderstand me -- I agree with going to Iraq --- but I question how much BS there was in his motives.

My whole point is, that I see little about the real issues, and alot about heresay and conjecture. CONVINCE ME!!!!!! thats all im asking :)
 
MonsterMark said:
Everyday he doesn't release them he is denying to do so.

Releasing the records will allow us to know.

"What's good for the donkey is good for the elephant; Mr. Bush should sign an SF 180, too." Quoted from the Washington Times

So by his not releasing his military records, I guess its fair to assume he didn't fulfill his military commitment....
 
Joeychgo said:
While we are at it -- How about you go after bush for his reasons for going to war in IRAQ --- Most of the reasons he stated prior to the war have proven invalid so far......... Dont misunderstand me -- I agree with going to Iraq --- but I question how much BS there was in his motives.
Because the Brits, Russians, Libyans, etc. etc. agred with the U.S. that Iraq was working on these weapons and had used them in the past. They are either in Iran or Syria or buried in the sand, but they are out there and we will unfortunately get a taste of them soon enough.
 
I will even fill out the forms for Kerry if he wants me to.

http://www.uscg.mil/ccs/cit/cim/forms1/FORMS%5CSF_180.pdf
http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/sf180.pdf

How to Submit Requests:

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You may submit more than one request per envelope or fax, but please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.

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"NARA ensures, for the Citizen and the Public Servant, for the President and the Congress and the Courts, ready access to essential evidence."
 
Joeychgo said:
My whole point is, that I see little about the real issues, and alot about heresay and conjecture. CONVINCE ME!!!!!! thats all im asking
I'm working on it, believe me. I don't want your vote to cancel out mine.
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MonsterMark said:
I'm working on it, believe me. I don't want your vote to cancel out mine.
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Yeah, but im in chicago --- My vote could be a few more then one!!!!!!!

ROFL


While your filling out those forms for Kerry, Fill out one for Bush also - I'd love to see that he actually served his committment like he claims but that others have questioned.
 
Bryan,

What I have long suspected is proven. Rupublicans are some of the biggest nut-huggers alive. Let's review the facts.

1) Kerry gives up the security of America, the greatest country in the world, and goes to Vietnam.

MEANWHILE

Bush finds a way to get out of going to Vietnam and serving his country

2) Kerry is in harm's way in Vietnam, an MAY have lied about a mission what happened during a mission.

MEANWHILE

Back in the US, Bush is a DESERTER..he's not AWOL, since AWOL is gone 30 days or less. He's gone for much longer. No peril here.

3) Kerry MUST produce documents showing what he did and why while he was in peril fighting for his life in Vietnam. If he does not, according to Bryan, he is too disgraceful to be president.

MEANWHILE

Bush, who weaseled his way out of serving, doesn't have to produce HIS documents shwoing he was a DESERTER. Yet seemingly, he is fitter to be president than Kerry. Even though he didn't fight. Neat, how that works, eh?

While all along, the Bush administration continues to attack Kerry for what he did in VIETNAM. You know, the place where I doubt Bush could find on a map. So Kerry was actually in VIETNAM, serving, fighting, whilst Bush was sitting at home, taking it easy. Then you have John Ashcroft chiming in. Who's Ashcroft? Why he's the guy who had 5 deferments..FIVE so he didn't have to serve. Then there's Cheney, perhaps the Grand Champion of Deferments. Seven to be exact. 7. VII. And neither of these guys EVER step foot into Vietnam to serve their country, yet they have the right to criticize Kerry? And to say Kerry is less fit to be president than Bush???? Unbelieveable!

And Bryan..save yourself the hassle of the whole "he used WMD in the past" BS. Those WMD came from the US, which is known. Saddam's buddy Reagan wanted him to gas some Iranians, which was OK. (but gassing Kurds is bad) Onto the Kurds...evidence put forth by the US ARMY WAR COLLEGE suggest it was NOT Saddam that gassed the Kurds. Research it yourself. During the 1st instance in Halabjah, there was a fight between Iraq and Iran. BOTH countries used gas on each other in this conflict. It was indeed Iran who killed the Kurds here. These are the gassed photos you see on the net/news. The 2nd instance was in Amadiyyah, after the war. NO GASSING VICTIMS WERE EVER PRODUCED for this one. The only evidence that a "gassing" has occured, was testimony recovered from Kurds who had fled to Turkey. Their eyewitness accounts were collected by staffers of the US Senate. These accounts were turned over to US military experts, and based on the symptoms described by these people, they did not conform to any known chemical weapons.

So let's ge back to fantasy-land, and pretend that Iraq DID gas the Kurds. (remember..gassing Kurds BAD, gassing Iranians GOOD) So if it was such a big deal, why did the US wait nearly 15 YEARS to do something about it???? Clearly if it was such a threat to US security, back when Saddam gassed the Kurds the 1st time in 1988, they would have done something, no????? Perhaps they were just too embarassed to say "Our gas is for gassing Iranians, NOT Kurds, you jerks". Nevermind the fact that the sanctions the US put on Iraq killed up to 14 MILLION Iraqis. I think the gassings, if they occured as reported, killed 3,000. Iraq kills 3,000 = bad. US kills MILLIONS = good.

Fast forward back to present....Bush decides that "pre-emptive" strikes are the way to go. This one may backfire on the US, with dire consequences. Iran stated just the other day, that they may "pre-emtive" strike US soldiers in Iraq because Israel is threatening to pre-emtive strike Irans nuclear generating facility. Iran basically said "we are adopting the US doctrine. If it is OK for them it is OK for the rest of the world too". Great plan, Bush! (remeber way back when..when I warned that this could create a dangerous precedent for other countries..but what do I know? I'm a Bastard Canadian).

While I certainly won't blame Bush for 9/11, as I don't think ANY president could have avoided it, I will say what he did after the fact elevated Osama to god-like status with his followers. Osama himself once told his followers "The US will invade and occupy an oil rich country unable to defend itself ". And just like that, Bush does it, and Osama followers liken him to a prophet. No wonder why they'll die for the guy...he "predicted" a future event, almost to a "t". Allah is their god...Osama is their god on earth.

And the past? Clinton gets a BJer, lies about it and nearly gets hung and impeached. Bush lies about WMD and Al-Quaeda, causes 1,000 service men to give their lives, and he is "fit" to be president??? Please....
 
Ron, great to see you come out from the shadows.

Kerry is either a perjuror or a war criminal? Which is it?
The way I see it, Kerry is not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less CIC.

Bush already went through the scrutiny process back in the 2000 election, so as Kerry says, Bring It On.

Forget about the medals argument. The real story has always been about his treasons created after his 4 month tour. The medal dispute was just a kick in the shins. Tomorrow, he gets punched in the stomach to bend him over, and then the documentary comes out to deliver the uppercut that puts him on the canvas for the count.

Why do all liberals continue to change the subject? Just ask Kerry to answer the charges against him. Hold a press conference. Answer questions. Show his records and shut us all up. Kerry, prove us wrong. We beg you.

The fact that you may be supporting Kerry for President (I say maybe because I am certain you could also go for a guy like Nader) is beyond belief for me. He has admitted under oath that he personally committed war crimes! He should be in jail, not running for President.

Why don't you join us in demanding Kerry release his records so we can all put this behind us. That is, after he apologizes to the millions of honorable Americans he besmerched after his short tour of duty.

It was great to see Bob Dole tear Kerry a new A-Hole today. This is only just the beginning. Grab a bag of popcorn and a coke and enjoy the show.
 
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RRocket said:
Rupublicans are some of the biggest nut-huggers alive.
Is being a "nut-hugger" a compliment, EH? LOL

RRocket said:
1) Kerry gives up the security of America, the greatest country in the world, and goes to Vietnam.
Yes, thank you Mr. Kerry for your service to our country.

RRocket said:
2) Kerry is in harm's way in Vietnam, an MAY have lied about a mission what happened during a mission.
No, Kerry spends his 1st year on a frigate in the middle of the ocean. He then fantasizes about being JFK #1 by joining the swift boats, which is a NON-COMBAT role at the time he joins. 2 weeks after he joins, the armed forces changes the role of the swift boats and makes them an interdiction force. Kerry balks, but it is too late to back out.

RRocket said:
3) Kerry MUST produce documents showing what he did and why while he was in peril fighting for his life in Vietnam. If he does not, according to Bryan, he is too disgraceful to be president.
No, he is too disgraceful to be President period. With or without the documents.

We just need to have him show the documents to the rest of the world so these people that seek to have him elected President see the real Kerry. Once the records are out, he's done. Put a fork in him. Not even the Democrats are disputing that he is a traitor after the war. But please, let's save that argument for later this week.

Stay tuned...more to come.
 
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No, he is too disgraceful to be President period. With or without the documents.

SO now if the documents support his version, he's still no good?

Then why should he produce anything? He has nothing to gain.........
 
Joeychgo said:
SO now if the documents support his version, he's still no good? Then why should he produce anything? He has nothing to gain.........
Let me explain. I don't really care about the medals. Everybody knows he embellished them, at best. That is not the story.

What he did after he got back is the story. It is the story that the average American knows little about except for those truly involved in the Vietnam era.

I just want to see the records to prove he is an embellisher and opportunist.

Then I want to move on his Senate testimony after the war to prove he is either a traitor or a perjuror, but clearly one or the other. No foggy middle ground here.

Then I want to move on to his Senate records and show that he was a non-existent member of the Senate for 20 years, an ineffectual leader, and expose his voting records as one of the most liberal in America. His record will show that how he voted in the past in the Senate is exactly opposite of what he is saying he will do now. You know, Kerry the flip-flopper.

Unfortunately, people need to have these things spelled out for them one at a time. So it has to happen in phases.

He has already done so many 180's, I just wish he'd sign the damn thing.
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Hey RRocket, :waving: I was wondering when you'd show up. Unfortunately you go over ground that has already been covered. Bush didn't vault himself up for his military service (call it what you like). But Kerry sure did and does on a daily basis. I think that warrants a little more proof. And I hate to get technical, but the Bush administration hasn't attacked Kerry's military service at all. You have a different opinion on this, but it's just that, an OPINION. I prefer to rely on facts, thank you. And it seems the "anyone but Bush" crowd reaches into our arctic neighbor as well, closing their eyes and plugging their noses while they pick through Kerry's crap looking for something good to eat. Look real close, I think he had a handful of peanuts and corn on the cob for dinner yesterday. Bon appetite!

And you're beating a dead horse with the whole "Bush lied" angle. Kerry would have invaded Iraq, too. So why aren't you trying to push Nader on us? He wouldn't have invaded Iraq. That's a rhetorical question. I know why, cause he can't beat Bush, the evil anti-Christ :dancefool .

The deaths that occurred during the sanctions (where did you get that ridiculously high number of 14 million? That's more than half their population :rolleyes: ) were caused by Saddam himself. I believe we went over this before, too. RRocket: "Actually, yeah, it was, um, more like 100 million! Yeah, that's the ticket! You bunch of murdering Americans, you! You've all been brainwashed! Elect the right candidate and we'll be friends with you again after you give up your security, your guns, your jobs, your import protections, and your sovereignty." If we get attacked again, you're not going to like any president we have, and this includes Kerry.

And I'll give you a little military education, for free cause we're LvC bros: pre-emptive strikes have been around for a while now, and they work real good. Bush didn't invent it. If Iran wants to attack, let 'em come! I aint sceered. We'll blow the heck out of them, too! (Did that sound like the nut-hugging redneck you think us Republicans are?) No, if Iran attacks, it'll be after we're gone. They aren't that stupid. MEANWHILE they'll sure keep funding, training, and harboring terrorists as much as they can since that's the right thing to do in some peoples opinion. After all, we pushed them to it according to many. And according to your logic RRocket, Osama should naturally "prophecy" that the US will attack some nation that will be unable to defend itself again. That way he'll either look even more like a god when it happens, or we should heed his words and stand down the next time we see a threat emerging. We should just not worry about it until the world is at war and the price will be far greater then. Yup, makes sense to me. Please, give me a break. You say it's no wonder they follow him like he's god. It doesn't take much to impress you, does it. Osama's a god, and Saddams a friggin saint the way he was maliciously used by Reagan and didn't use gas and cried so much because the U.S. killed 60% of his people. Save your revisions on history, cause the only ones that are going to listen to you are your dreaded "nut-huggers".

I'm sure you're well meaning and truly believe the US will be better off with Kerry in the White House. Thanks for your concern. (I'm saying this jokingly in a good-natured, condescending manner) And thanks for the weather you've been sending us. It's the coolest summer ever!
 
Joeychgo said:
Yeah, but im in chicago --- My vote could be a few more then one!!!!!!!

ROFL

LOL!

And I agree about Bush releasing his info too. And what if they're both lying? Which one is worse? Who knows, you decide. I know where I stand. I've gotten out of a drill or two before as well, so sue me.
 
Ive said it before - I'm much more interested in current issues, not what happened 35 years ago. I'm sure we could find alot of dirt on most politicians 35 years ago when they were college age.

I'm disappointed the issues important today arent being discussed, if only so that people are more educated and aware. WHy isnt anyone discussing health care, or the economy? How about this - do you realize that the winner of this election may get to appoint 3 supreme court justices and affect the court decisions for the next 20+ years? That means if Bush wins again he could make appointments that could hurt our civil liberties LONG term, and after seeing the Patroit Act, I have little doubt that'll be the result of such appointments. There are stories abound the internet about people who protest at bush rallys being arrested, and some fired from their jobs. I dont know about the truth of these stories, but there are alot of them, and that scares me.

How about the lies and misleading things that happen today? You gonna tell me that the whole WMD thing wasnt exaggerated? You gonna tell me it all went to Syria? Ok, maybe it did - ask yourself this, why weren't we watching for this and have proof this happened?

There is MUCH more to being president then being CIC. Yes, Bush doesnt mind talking tough and backing his words up, er, well maybe North Korea isnt too worried. Iran doesnt appear too concerned either as they announced today they would continue building the reactor that'll produce weapons grade plutonium. US Diplomacy seems to be working well around the world.

I never liked GW to be honest. However, I felt he surrounded himself with good people and I had hopes for his administration. Dick Cheney and Colin Powell have both let me down. I would have voted for either one of them, but now I see Cheney's true colors and I would be suprised of Powell signs on for a second term.

Look at the deficit. Bush was given a $200 billion surplus, and now we have $400 billion deficit, which is projected to surpass $500 billion next year. Bush Sr. left Clinton with a $300 billion deficit so it seems to run in the family. If we continue at this rate, we could easily have a trillion dollar deficit in 2008. Think about who gets to pay that bill when you look at your children's faces. Think about how all of us wont have any social security either. What is GW doing about that? Nothin. He's too busy running around his ranch with that silly hat looking like a cowboy taking yet another vacation, more then any other President in history.

Bush BARELY won last time around, and this time the country is just as divided. Doesnt that tell you something? Had it not been for 9-11, do you think the landscape would be any different today?

WHo did what to who 35 years ago means little today, it really doesnt. Today, our President brags about how he doesnt read the newspaper - which to me translates into how he ignores what the people of this country have to say. it's HIS people who have just now broken the law in assisting with these negative ads. What about hand picked, Haliburton, where Cheaney used to be CEO, overcharging left and right. I dont see Bush shopping for a new contractor. Hows that for integrity and leadership?

Look, IM not asking you to vote for Kerry. Im asking you to look at bush with the same critical eye and realize GW is FAR from ideal. 35 years ago isnt important, Its what happens the next 4 years that is MOST important, and if the progress of the last 4 years is any indication, im not ecouraged.
 
Kbob said:
And it seems the "anyone but Bush" crowd reaches into our arctic neighbor as well, closing their eyes and plugging their noses while they pick through Kerry's crap looking for something good to eat. Look real close, I think he had a handful of peanuts and corn on the cob for dinner yesterday. Bon appetite!
I'm still cleaning off the keyboard after the coke came out of my nose. Thanks for the humor. That is exactly what the MSM is doing right now. Trying to find that perfect kernel that wasn't chewed yet. LMAO. Nice one.

Ron has gone off on the Iran/Iraq revisionist thing before. It doesn't matter. Clinton didn't have the nads to deal with Saddam. Bush did and went and pulled Saddam out of the rat hole by his tail. Next up. Iran. Then back again to North Korea. So many dictatorships, so little time.
 
Joeychgo said:
Ive said it before - I'm much more interested in current issues, not what happened 35 years ago. I'm sure we could find alot of dirt on most politicians 35 years ago when they were college age.
So now the Dems argument is look, forget it, he was young and stupid? (Speaking of Kerry of course.)

Joeychgo said:
I'm disappointed the issues important today arent being discussed, if only so that people are more educated and aware.
So am I. You can blame "reporting for duty" Kerry for that.

Joeychgo said:
WHy isnt anyone discussing health care, or the economy?
Because Kerry elected to spend exactly 26 seconds talking about it in his acceptance speech. Trust me, you will get alot more from Bush on these issues during his convention speech.

Joeychgo said:
How about this - do you realize that the winner of this election may get to appoint 3 supreme court justices and affect the court decisions for the next 20+ years? That means if Bush wins again he could make appointments that could hurt our civil liberties LONG term,
Joey, you have a typo in there to edit. I think you meant to say "help out civil liberties LONG term".

Joeychgo said:
There are stories abound the internet about people who protest at bush rallys being arrested, and some fired from their jobs. I dont know about the truth of these stories, but there are alot of them, and that scares me.
it should. There will be thousands of arrests because wacko lefties don't know how to act in public. The media will be there to 'capture' it all though. You'll see the far left in full foaming at the mouth mode.

Joeychgo said:
How about the lies and misleading things that happen today? You gonna tell me that the whole WMD thing wasnt exaggerated? You gonna tell me it all went to Syria? Ok, maybe it did - ask yourself this, why weren't we watching for this and have proof this happened?.
They went somewhere. Just haven't found them yet.

Joeychgo said:
US Diplomacy seems to be working well around the world.
I agree. It is.

Joeychgo said:
Look, IM not asking you to vote for Kerry. Im asking you to look at bush with the same critical eye and realize GW is FAR from ideal. 35 years ago isnt important, Its what happens the next 4 years that is MOST important, and if the progress of the last 4 years is any indication, im not ecouraged.
35 years ago is very important. We will be the laughing stock of the world and have absolutely no credibility in the world if we elect a war criminal as President. Look, the economy has been growing at better than 4% for the last several years and getting stronger. The war on terror is making progress. STOP MYSELF.

Blah, blah, blah...Clinton had 42 milllion uninsured when he came into office. 8 years later he still had 42 million uninsured. How could that have happened?
 
Clinton didn't NEED nads to do anything to Iraq, as he knew they weren't then (or ever) a threat to the US.......

War crimes? The US Commander in Chief has commited war crimes by ordering the deliberate bombing of areas where there were known to be civilians. That's a war crime too...Never mind that the US is pals with Israel. Sharon is a convicted war criminal. But he's the US's best friend. So it would seem war crimes don't really matter to Americans anyhow...wouldn't it?

I am also for full disclosure. But until there is ironclad evidence against Kerry, I still say he is a better person to lead the US than the incompetent bunch or morons there now. You WILL be crying the blues when Bush and his weenies push through another evolution of the "Patriot" act....


But NADER??? I could never support anyone who has a total hate for....the automobile. I believe Nader has never owned, and said he would never own an automobile....How can ANYONE like a guy who hates cars??
 
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RRocket said:
Clinton didn't NEED nads to do anything to Iraq, as he knew they weren't then (or ever) a threat to the US.......
Your right. His nads were pretty busy being buffed by a young intern to notice.
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Not to change the subject because I am really enjoying myself, but, how do you like the Lexus now that you've really had a chance to run it. Any more pics you care to share?
 
Bryan,

The Lexus is amazing. It's such a step up. It's a fine car all around. I'm so very pleased, and wished I would have purchased it sooner. The rest of my cars, I think, will be Lexus. Saving up as we speak for my SC430. It's just such a good brand. I wish everyone could try one just to see what they're missing...

Bryan...what messenger do you use? I've recently done a re-format, and have lost my contacts...which messenger service/contact names do you use. I'd like to chat online....

I revised my post..please re-read..you posted a reply too soon!! LOL
 
I hate to borrow this from someone else but I thought it was a great post.

"I truly believe history will record that this was the election where a small, grassroots effort overcame the endless funds and disinformation of a pretender to the Oval Office. I am so grateful I am here to bear witness and to feel a part of this fantastic event.

Kerry, armed with left-leaning media, hollywood, misguided (or uninformed) performers, millions upon millions of dollars, fake box-office "documentaries", and pitiful legal threats lost to an independent group who's only weapon was... the Truth.

John O'Neill and ALL SBVT will be remembered for being heroic not only in Viet Nam, but also for the current crusade to keep America from falling into the hands of a narcissistic elitist with delusions of grandeur... "

And I'm only on the first chapter!
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SOTG

Truer words were never spoken. $63,000,000 spent (so far) by liberal 527 PAC's to tear down Bush vs $ 500,000 from a group of Vets. I just revel in seeing the libs crying right now asking Bush to take down the ads. The hypocrites humor me.


Try this link... 10 questions to ask John Kerry about his war record.
http://www.rightwingnews.com/john/swiftquestions.php


 
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Bryan, when did coke start coming in budwieser cans?

Your right. His nads were pretty busy being buffed by a young intern to notice
You say this like it was a bad thing.
 
Kbob,

Hello...I'll indulge your ego by asking you a question..maybe a touch sensitive. If "pre-emptive" strikes are OK, then surely that makes the attack on Pearl Harbour legitimate, and thus a correct military action. So then why are Americans so sour about it? It was pre-emptive against someone the Japanese thought was their enemy...which is the same doctrine Bush has adopted. So the attack on Pearl Harbour was righteous, correct?

Oh..and please posty your messenger handles too, as I'd like to chat you up on occassion..although only when I'm exceptionally bored....:)

Mine are ICQ: 2237996, AOL messenger SVSRacer, MSN r_durocher@hotmail.com
 
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I will say this.......... I dont think kerry was the best candidate the Dems could have fielded.......... and I think if a better candidate had been fielded, Bush wouldnt have a chance. My honest opinion is that neither of these guys is the best choice for us, but I guess Ive seen the mess made by bush, and figure Kerry cant do much worse.

:sigh: I miss Ross Perot, at least I was entertained during that election.
 
Joey,

We need live chat so we can harangue each other on a regualr basis, and in real-time...
 
Joeychgo said:
Bryan, when did coke start coming in budwieser cans?
First of all Bud
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, its Miller
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. I wouldn't drink that catfish piss from the Mississippi River if you paid me. Second, this cat has been dry for a long time. Couldn't get away with it while the mrs. is with child. Just not fair to her. You'll have to try again.
 

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