Punisher
Active LVC Member
Id be willing to bet most of the biggest Bush supporters are wealthy.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth 2nd Ad
- Thread starter MonsterMark
- Start date
Pepsi2185 said:
That's just argumentative. My local paper is completely liberal and proud of it. But I read it every day. I don't watch Fox news except when something really newsworthy happens (Iraq invasion, et al). I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh for obvious reasons. I first found out about the Swift Boat Vets from this site.
Pepsi2185 said:
No offense meant here, but I viewed his statements as people are ignorant because they don't have all the facts. In my reply above I alluded to the same ignorance of Kerry's war record.
Pepsi2185 said:
I couldn't agree with you more about the generals. If Kerry would drop the whole "hero" bit, then your point is well taken. I sympathize with your job situation. Things are tough all over and I'm not immune. I wish Bush or Kerry would have some real vision in this regard, but neither do. So I must turn to other issues to base my vote.
Pepsi2185 said:
The accusations about Bush making his company less bankrupt today will only be replaced by accusations of Kerry making Heinz more profitable tomorrow if Kerry is elected. Kerry is not better than Bush in this regard, so again I must base my vote on other issues. And Kerry would have gone to war against Iraq, too, by his own admission. So that argument is also nullified between the two. And IMO, when placed on opposite sides of the scale, Kerry is found wanting. But I want to stress that this is my OPINION, so don't hate me for it. I'm voting for Bush. You're voting for Kerry. And in 20 years, who gives a chit? (I couldn't resist quoting Driller there cause I felt the humor in his post)
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
I'll respond to all you guys later in the night. Thank you for keeping it civil. I really do appreciate a "fair fight'.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/graphics/swiftboat_082104.html
Sen. Kerry's Statement On THe Senate Floor As a Eulogy For Mr. Thomas Belodeau.
"There was the time we were carrying special forces up a river and a mine exploded under our boat sending it 2 feet into the air. We were receiving incoming rocket and small arms fire and Tommy was returning fire with his M-60 machine gun when it literally broke apart in his hands. He was left holding the pieces unable to fire back while one of the Green Berets walked along the edge of the boat to get Tommy another M-60. As he was doing so, the boat made a high speed turn to starboard and the Green Beret kept going--straight into the river. The entire time while the boat went back to get the Green Beret, Tommy was without a machine gun or a weapon of any kind, but all the time he was hurling the greatest single string of Lowell-Chelmsford curses ever heard at the Viet Cong. He literally had swear words with tracers on them!'
http://idexer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48
According to Kerry, first a mine explodes under HIS boat. Not NEAR his boat, but UNDER his boat. Sending it 2 feet into the air. After sending it TWO feet into the air, the boat continued on, and then made a high speed turn to starboard (Throwing the Green Beret (Rassmann) into the water). So according to Sen. Kerry the turn caused Rassmann to go into the water, and a mine exploded under PCF-3. THis certainly conflicts with the WaPo diagram, and is just another one of the many varying accounts by Sen. Kerry, his campaign, and his Band Of Brothers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/graphics/swiftboat_082104.html
Sen. Kerry's Statement On THe Senate Floor As a Eulogy For Mr. Thomas Belodeau.
"There was the time we were carrying special forces up a river and a mine exploded under our boat sending it 2 feet into the air. We were receiving incoming rocket and small arms fire and Tommy was returning fire with his M-60 machine gun when it literally broke apart in his hands. He was left holding the pieces unable to fire back while one of the Green Berets walked along the edge of the boat to get Tommy another M-60. As he was doing so, the boat made a high speed turn to starboard and the Green Beret kept going--straight into the river. The entire time while the boat went back to get the Green Beret, Tommy was without a machine gun or a weapon of any kind, but all the time he was hurling the greatest single string of Lowell-Chelmsford curses ever heard at the Viet Cong. He literally had swear words with tracers on them!'
http://idexer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48
According to Kerry, first a mine explodes under HIS boat. Not NEAR his boat, but UNDER his boat. Sending it 2 feet into the air. After sending it TWO feet into the air, the boat continued on, and then made a high speed turn to starboard (Throwing the Green Beret (Rassmann) into the water). So according to Sen. Kerry the turn caused Rassmann to go into the water, and a mine exploded under PCF-3. THis certainly conflicts with the WaPo diagram, and is just another one of the many varying accounts by Sen. Kerry, his campaign, and his Band Of Brothers.
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Pepsi2185
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Kbob,
"But I want to stress that this is my OPINION, so don't hate me for it. I'm voting for Bush. You're voting for Kerry."
Honestly, i would go for greenpeace if i knew they could win. Good points by the way. I really dont mind who you guys vote for. I hope you know i respect your opinoins, im not condemning any of you and I respect you all for making informed decisions. I JUST WANT MY NEW LINCOLN. lololol
I will have to come back to read your reply monstermark my friends are nagging me to get going to the movies.
"But I want to stress that this is my OPINION, so don't hate me for it. I'm voting for Bush. You're voting for Kerry."
Honestly, i would go for greenpeace if i knew they could win. Good points by the way. I really dont mind who you guys vote for. I hope you know i respect your opinoins, im not condemning any of you and I respect you all for making informed decisions. I JUST WANT MY NEW LINCOLN. lololol
I will have to come back to read your reply monstermark my friends are nagging me to get going to the movies.
Pepsi2185 said:
Good one, LOL!
Pepsi2185 said:
The feeling is mutual. And I'd like a new Lincoln too, specifically that TASCA Mark on the home LVC page. Is that thing awesome or what! :eek2:
Pepsi2185 said:
Enjoy and let us know if it was worth seeing.
Good graphic MonsterMark. Question: whose account is the graphic based? Also, do you know what Droz was doing while Chenoweth and Thurlow assisted Pees? Did he hang back to cover the rear? Just trying to make sense of it all.
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Pepsi2185
LVC Mafia Henchman
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yes, nice graphic
to be honest the movie totally sucked, never go to see, i think it was "open water". There is one good scene where one of the main characters is naked and quite beautiful, may i add. The rest of the movie is her and her husband floating in open water!!!!!!!!!!! For a good hour!!!!!!!!!! It was a total waste. I could have filmed it in my swimming pool. Dont waste your money on this movie, learn from my mistake.
Anyway, onward with the swiftboats.
to be honest the movie totally sucked, never go to see, i think it was "open water". There is one good scene where one of the main characters is naked and quite beautiful, may i add. The rest of the movie is her and her husband floating in open water!!!!!!!!!!! For a good hour!!!!!!!!!! It was a total waste. I could have filmed it in my swimming pool. Dont waste your money on this movie, learn from my mistake.
Anyway, onward with the swiftboats.
Edwards faults Bush for overtime pay cuts
Says Democratic ticket would ensure rewards for workers' efforts
Reuters
Updated: 2:36 p.m. ET Aug. 21, 2004
PITTSBURGH - Vice presidential candidate John Edwards on Saturday assailed a new Bush administration policy that excludes millions of Americans from overtime pay and promised that the Democratic ticket would ensure that workers are rewarded for their efforts.
He made his comments in the party’s weekly radio address two days before the Republican administration’s policy takes effect. The new rules change the criteria for how employers determine overtime for their employees.
“Why would anyone want to take overtime pay away from as many as 6 million Americans at a time when they need it the most?” asked Edwards, a senator from North Carolina.
“And why would anyone support this new rule which could mean a pay cut for millions of Americans who have already seen their real wages drop again this year?”
Edwards said that he and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry “believe we don’t need changes that deny workers their overtime pay.”
Recalling his own background, which included unloading tractor trailers while in college, Edwards said the Democrats believe that “if you work hard, then you should be rewarded for that effort.”
Platform aims to please middle class voters
Kerry and Edwards, running neck and neck with President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, have offered an economic platform designed to please middle class voters, many of whom have failed to benefit much from an economic recovery that has yet to generate robust hiring or wage gains.
Kerry was to meet with top Democrats on Saturday.
More than 1.1 million jobs have been lost since Bush took office and the tepid recovery in the labor market has fueled public concern over offshore “outsourcing” to low-wage countries like China and India.
Kerry and Edwards have tried to capitalize on that discontent.
But Republicans say Bush will likely highlight tax relief and Social Security reform when he retools his economic platform for an intense month of campaigning after the Aug. 30-Sept. 2 Republican Party convention in New York.
The focus will be on small investors and young voters worried about their retirement savings, according to Republicans close to the administration.
“The message will be that Bush is for wealth creation and (Democrat John) Kerry is for wealth redistribution,” said Stephen Moore of the Club for Growth, a group that raises money for conservative political candidates.
The president is expected to roll out the polished themes at the convention.
Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5781227/
Says Democratic ticket would ensure rewards for workers' efforts
Reuters
Updated: 2:36 p.m. ET Aug. 21, 2004
PITTSBURGH - Vice presidential candidate John Edwards on Saturday assailed a new Bush administration policy that excludes millions of Americans from overtime pay and promised that the Democratic ticket would ensure that workers are rewarded for their efforts.
He made his comments in the party’s weekly radio address two days before the Republican administration’s policy takes effect. The new rules change the criteria for how employers determine overtime for their employees.
“Why would anyone want to take overtime pay away from as many as 6 million Americans at a time when they need it the most?” asked Edwards, a senator from North Carolina.
“And why would anyone support this new rule which could mean a pay cut for millions of Americans who have already seen their real wages drop again this year?”
Edwards said that he and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry “believe we don’t need changes that deny workers their overtime pay.”
Recalling his own background, which included unloading tractor trailers while in college, Edwards said the Democrats believe that “if you work hard, then you should be rewarded for that effort.”
Platform aims to please middle class voters
Kerry and Edwards, running neck and neck with President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, have offered an economic platform designed to please middle class voters, many of whom have failed to benefit much from an economic recovery that has yet to generate robust hiring or wage gains.
Kerry was to meet with top Democrats on Saturday.
More than 1.1 million jobs have been lost since Bush took office and the tepid recovery in the labor market has fueled public concern over offshore “outsourcing” to low-wage countries like China and India.
Kerry and Edwards have tried to capitalize on that discontent.
But Republicans say Bush will likely highlight tax relief and Social Security reform when he retools his economic platform for an intense month of campaigning after the Aug. 30-Sept. 2 Republican Party convention in New York.
The focus will be on small investors and young voters worried about their retirement savings, according to Republicans close to the administration.
“The message will be that Bush is for wealth creation and (Democrat John) Kerry is for wealth redistribution,” said Stephen Moore of the Club for Growth, a group that raises money for conservative political candidates.
The president is expected to roll out the polished themes at the convention.
Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5781227/
Despite veterans' ad, Kerry remains in the lead
MSNBC
Updated: 10:00 a.m. ET Aug. 20, 2004
This week’s controversy over allegations made by anti-John Kerry Vietnam veterans in their TV ad and in their book provides an illustration of the way division of labor works today in American politics.
“The President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country,” Kerry said in a speech Thursday. “Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: ‘Bring it on.’”
Indeed, John O’Neill (who debated Kerry more than 30 years ago on the Dick Cavett show on ABC) and his fellow “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” have “brought it on.”
Bush himself has stayed aloof, praising Kerry last week, saying Kerry "is justifiably proud of his record in Vietnam and he should be."
As the dust settles a bit, Kerry remains in the lead of MSNBC.com's White House Derby.
How potent an issue is Bush’s non-disavowal of the Swift Boat Veterans ad?
Those voters who don't believe Bush in general will never believe that he and his strategist Karl Rove didn't authorize the ad.
Voters may assume all anti-Kerry attacks are somehow conforming to a larger anti-Kerry strategy, and likewise on the anti-Bush side.
And in the end, the battle of Najaf may well matter more to voters than the battle on the Mekong River in 1968.
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, with coverage by talk radio, blogs, and some in the more traditional news media, did force Kerry to spend time responding.
If you are campaign manager, you never want to have your candidate dancing to your adversaries’ sheet music.
Meanwhile, in another illustration of division of labor, even though Kerry did not delve into the question "what did Bush really do in the Air National Guard in 1972?" anti-Bush allies like Michael Moore, Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe and Moveon.org have been doing that work for months. Moveon.org uncorked a new ad this week criticizing Bush’s Guard service, which Kerry disavowed.
A new Pennsylvania poll from Franklin & Marshall College released Thursday showed Kerry with a six-point lead, 48 percent to 42 percent over Bush, but still within the margin of error, which was 3.8 percent.
The undecided amounted to eight percent. If one accepts the traditional pollster’s wisdom that two-thirds of the undecided ultimately vote against the incumbent, Kerry looks to be in fine shape in Pennsylvania.
Bush has made a remarkable 32 visits to the Keystone State since becoming president. This is puzzling in that he lost Pennsylvania by more than 200,000 votes last time. This could end up as one of the smartest — or most ill-advised — investments in modern campaign history.
But Pennsylvania illustrates the point that we don’t know for sure what the battleground states are and neither do the candidates. It is easier to say which states are not tossup states (Alabama, California, Utah, Rhode Island) than which ones are.
And this week's list of tossup states may not be the same as the week of Oct. 25
© 2004 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5770431
MSNBC
Updated: 10:00 a.m. ET Aug. 20, 2004
This week’s controversy over allegations made by anti-John Kerry Vietnam veterans in their TV ad and in their book provides an illustration of the way division of labor works today in American politics.
“The President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country,” Kerry said in a speech Thursday. “Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: ‘Bring it on.’”
Indeed, John O’Neill (who debated Kerry more than 30 years ago on the Dick Cavett show on ABC) and his fellow “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” have “brought it on.”
Bush himself has stayed aloof, praising Kerry last week, saying Kerry "is justifiably proud of his record in Vietnam and he should be."
As the dust settles a bit, Kerry remains in the lead of MSNBC.com's White House Derby.
How potent an issue is Bush’s non-disavowal of the Swift Boat Veterans ad?
Those voters who don't believe Bush in general will never believe that he and his strategist Karl Rove didn't authorize the ad.
Voters may assume all anti-Kerry attacks are somehow conforming to a larger anti-Kerry strategy, and likewise on the anti-Bush side.
And in the end, the battle of Najaf may well matter more to voters than the battle on the Mekong River in 1968.
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, with coverage by talk radio, blogs, and some in the more traditional news media, did force Kerry to spend time responding.
If you are campaign manager, you never want to have your candidate dancing to your adversaries’ sheet music.
Meanwhile, in another illustration of division of labor, even though Kerry did not delve into the question "what did Bush really do in the Air National Guard in 1972?" anti-Bush allies like Michael Moore, Democratic National Committee chairman Terry McAuliffe and Moveon.org have been doing that work for months. Moveon.org uncorked a new ad this week criticizing Bush’s Guard service, which Kerry disavowed.
A new Pennsylvania poll from Franklin & Marshall College released Thursday showed Kerry with a six-point lead, 48 percent to 42 percent over Bush, but still within the margin of error, which was 3.8 percent.
The undecided amounted to eight percent. If one accepts the traditional pollster’s wisdom that two-thirds of the undecided ultimately vote against the incumbent, Kerry looks to be in fine shape in Pennsylvania.
Bush has made a remarkable 32 visits to the Keystone State since becoming president. This is puzzling in that he lost Pennsylvania by more than 200,000 votes last time. This could end up as one of the smartest — or most ill-advised — investments in modern campaign history.
But Pennsylvania illustrates the point that we don’t know for sure what the battleground states are and neither do the candidates. It is easier to say which states are not tossup states (Alabama, California, Utah, Rhode Island) than which ones are.
And this week's list of tossup states may not be the same as the week of Oct. 25
© 2004 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5770431
Chicago Tribune Editor Backs Kerry's Story
Saturday, August 21, 2004
CHICAGO — A Chicago Tribune (search) editor who was on the Vietnam mission for which John Kerry (search) received the Silver Star is backing up Kerry's account of the incident.
William Rood, 61, said he decided to break his silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission because reports by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search) are incorrect and darken the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry, according to a report in the Tribune's Sunday editions.
Rood, an editor on the Tribune's metropolitan desk, said the allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were overblown are untrue. Kerry came up with an attack strategy that was praised by their superiors, Rood said.
"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in the newspaper. "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."
According to the Tribune, Rood's recollection of what happened that day in South Vietnam was backed by military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star and a report written by then-Capt. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded his and Kerry's task force and is now a critic of the Democratic candidate.
More here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129661,00.html
Saturday, August 21, 2004
CHICAGO — A Chicago Tribune (search) editor who was on the Vietnam mission for which John Kerry (search) received the Silver Star is backing up Kerry's account of the incident.
William Rood, 61, said he decided to break his silence about the Feb. 28, 1969, mission because reports by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search) are incorrect and darken the reputations of veterans who served with Kerry, according to a report in the Tribune's Sunday editions.
Rood, an editor on the Tribune's metropolitan desk, said the allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were overblown are untrue. Kerry came up with an attack strategy that was praised by their superiors, Rood said.
"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us," Rood said in a 1,700-word first-person account published in the newspaper. "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."
According to the Tribune, Rood's recollection of what happened that day in South Vietnam was backed by military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star and a report written by then-Capt. Roy Hoffmann, who commanded his and Kerry's task force and is now a critic of the Democratic candidate.
More here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129661,00.html
Come on, man, if you're going to post a poll try to make it up to date or "scientifically valid". Otherwise, it's very misleading. And if you don't know my opinion of polls by now, they're for idiots. Make up your own mind and don't follow the crowd like a stupid lemming.
Updated Daily by Noon Eastern Election 2004
Presidential Ballot
Bush 47%
Kerry 47%
Other 2%
Not Sure 4%
RasmussenReports.com
---------------------------
Rasmussen Reports Home
Economic Confidence Today
Bush vs. Kerry Today
Bush Job Approval
Congress - GOP vs. Dem
Electoral College
State-by-State Polls
----------------------------------------------
Sunday August 22, 2004--For the second straight day, the Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll shows Senator John Kerry with 47% of the vote and President George W. Bush with 47%. The Tracking Poll is updated daily by noon Eastern.
Forty-seven percent (47%) of voters have a favorable opinion of Kerry's military service while 36% have an unfavorable view. Thirty-nine percent (39%) believe Kerry is telling the truth about his experiences in Vietnam while 31% believe he is exaggerating the truth and 15% believe he is lying.
Our latest Electoral College projection stands at Kerry 223 Bush 183. Those figures, which reflect our latest polling in Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, will be updated today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern.
Yesterday, we provided our Premium Members with new Top-Line polling results for 25 states.
So far in August, we have publicly released state election polls for Nevada, Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Washington, Maine, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Oregon, New Jersey, Arkansas, New Mexico, California, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia, Iowa, Georgia, Illinois, Colorado, New Mexico, and Minnesota.
Supplemental data is available for
RR Premium Members.
Learn about Premium Membership
Data released last week 52% of voters trust Bush more than Kerry when in comes to national defense and the War on Terror. Forty-two percent (42%) prefer Kerry. Voters are more evenly divided when it comes to managing the economy.
Rasmussen Reports data also shows that 42% of Likely Voters say President Bush is doing a good or an excellent job of handling the situation in Iraq. Another 42% say he is doing a poor job. When it comes to the economy, 41% say good or excellent while 43% say poor. These figures are updated weekly.
The national telephone survey of 1,500 Likely voters was conducted by Rasmussen Reports over the past three nights. Margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.
----------------------------
Updated Daily by Noon Eastern Election 2004
Date Bush Kerry
Today 47 47
Aug 21 47 47
Aug 20 47 48
Aug 19 46 48
Aug 18 46 48
Aug 17 46 49
Aug 16 47 48
Aug 15 46 48
Aug 14 46 47
Aug 13 46 48
Aug 12 45 48
Aug 11 46 49
Aug 10 46 49
Aug 9 48 47
Aug 8 48 47
Aug 7 47 47
Aug 6 46 48
Aug 5 45 48
Aug 4 46 46
Aug 3 45 48
Aug 2 46 47
Aug 1 45 49
Earlier Results for
RR Premium Members
Dates are release dates
Surveys conducted on preceding three nights
RasmussenReports.com
Updated Daily by Noon Eastern Election 2004
Presidential Ballot
Bush 47%
Kerry 47%
Other 2%
Not Sure 4%
RasmussenReports.com
---------------------------
Rasmussen Reports Home
Economic Confidence Today
Bush vs. Kerry Today
Bush Job Approval
Congress - GOP vs. Dem
Electoral College
State-by-State Polls
----------------------------------------------
Sunday August 22, 2004--For the second straight day, the Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll shows Senator John Kerry with 47% of the vote and President George W. Bush with 47%. The Tracking Poll is updated daily by noon Eastern.
Forty-seven percent (47%) of voters have a favorable opinion of Kerry's military service while 36% have an unfavorable view. Thirty-nine percent (39%) believe Kerry is telling the truth about his experiences in Vietnam while 31% believe he is exaggerating the truth and 15% believe he is lying.
Our latest Electoral College projection stands at Kerry 223 Bush 183. Those figures, which reflect our latest polling in Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, will be updated today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern.
Yesterday, we provided our Premium Members with new Top-Line polling results for 25 states.
So far in August, we have publicly released state election polls for Nevada, Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Washington, Maine, Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Oregon, New Jersey, Arkansas, New Mexico, California, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia, Iowa, Georgia, Illinois, Colorado, New Mexico, and Minnesota.
Supplemental data is available for
RR Premium Members.
Learn about Premium Membership
Data released last week 52% of voters trust Bush more than Kerry when in comes to national defense and the War on Terror. Forty-two percent (42%) prefer Kerry. Voters are more evenly divided when it comes to managing the economy.
Rasmussen Reports data also shows that 42% of Likely Voters say President Bush is doing a good or an excellent job of handling the situation in Iraq. Another 42% say he is doing a poor job. When it comes to the economy, 41% say good or excellent while 43% say poor. These figures are updated weekly.
The national telephone survey of 1,500 Likely voters was conducted by Rasmussen Reports over the past three nights. Margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.
----------------------------
Updated Daily by Noon Eastern Election 2004
Date Bush Kerry
Today 47 47
Aug 21 47 47
Aug 20 47 48
Aug 19 46 48
Aug 18 46 48
Aug 17 46 49
Aug 16 47 48
Aug 15 46 48
Aug 14 46 47
Aug 13 46 48
Aug 12 45 48
Aug 11 46 49
Aug 10 46 49
Aug 9 48 47
Aug 8 48 47
Aug 7 47 47
Aug 6 46 48
Aug 5 45 48
Aug 4 46 46
Aug 3 45 48
Aug 2 46 47
Aug 1 45 49
Earlier Results for
RR Premium Members
Dates are release dates
Surveys conducted on preceding three nights
RasmussenReports.com
Almost everyone on Capital Hill wanted to reform overtime pay rules because they were so outdated. And surprise, Democrats were unhappy with the final version. If you want to know the truth, go to the source:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/main.htm
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/main.htm
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
The graphics were created by the Washington Post. I at least give them credit for 'finally' digging into this. This story is very troubling for Kerry on many fronts.Kbob said:
1st: It shows that Kerry lied on how he received one of his purple hearts. The infamous 'toss a grenade into the uncle bens and get your butt cooked' incident.
2nd: Although there are discrepancies, overall the report validates what the Swift Boat Vets said. The number 3 boat took a mine. At the same time, Kerry took off down the river. Based on where Rasmussen was on the boat, it seems the most plausible that Kerry gunned the engines to get the hell out of there and Rasmussen was in the most vulnerable position on the boat and, with no handrails, took a dive over the side. (Have you ever been standing up in a boat when the driver steps on the gas? Usually the driver waits till everybody is seated, right?) More troubling though is that in Kerry's own words, he only turned around when he noticed Rasmussen was missing, so he may have well been 5000 meters down the river, fleeing the scene. Which is why he may have had to withstand the "withering" firestorm from all sides to get back. (Not plausible)
3rd: The report states there are 2 explosions yet there is only one damage report and that Kerry towed the damaged 3 boat yet the report states the 94 (Kerrys) boat as damaged to the point of being inoperable. The damages seem to be consistent with that of a mine so I believe the 3 boat was mined. The damage as reported to Kerry's boat would not have allowed his boat to tow the other. Why wouldn't they use a boat that was unscathed?
4th: The is no mention of small arms damage to either the boats or crew. Yet Kerry survived "withering" vollies from both sides. Man, the Vietcom were bad shots. The rest of the boats were 'trapped' by the 3 boat. How were they not wiped out. They were trapped weren't they? Then the report goes on to say that they were even able to sit there and make repairs for an hour and a half after the assault. The most plausible explaination comes from the Swift Vets again. There was a mine explosion. The crews started using suppression fire on both sides of the river. Rasmussen is upside down in the water and under the water and hears 50s' going off all over the place.
5th: Kerry states he made a "starboard" turn which would have put him squarely on the beach, which is at least consistent with his strategy of always beaching his boat when under fire.
6th: The report states the Droz's boat (#43) was behind Kerrys which makes it consistent that they would go to the aid of the 3 boat and therefore would be out of position to retrive Rasmussen from the water. So Kerry beats them there first to pluck Rasmussen from the water..
When you compare the 2 events as outline by both Kerry and the Swift Vets, you must judge the stories based on what makes the most sense and seems the most plausible. Again, Kerry tries to take credit by indicating damage to his boat on the report that would be consistent with mine damage but would render his boat inoperable, yet he tows the other boat. This is consistent with his embellishing his record to the detriment of those there.
These are my opinions and yes I am partisan on this issue but there is no question in my mind why the Swift Vets are challenging this guy's credibility. He doesn' have any in my mind.
What we have here is a liar and a traitor seeking to be Commander in Chief. This would obviously give aid and comfort to our enemies around the world and would allow the world to paint us as the evil empire. Our enemies would say, look at who they just elected (Kerry). A man who has openly and freely admitted to war crimes. Americans are murderers.
Democrats would have no basis to criticize the Bush administration for Abu Graib or any such incident ever again.
So criticize me for being partisan but I have watched all the shows, went on all the websites and brought my life to a halt so I could ascertain the truth in all this. I share this with you and spend alot of time writing these things up because I know you guys are busy and I hope that this helps you more easily understand what is being discussed and then be able to take this information and make up your own minds.
Kerry is the wrong choice and the Democrats should ask him to immediately bow out of the race and let Edwards continue. Don't get me wrong, I would much rather see Kerry run than Edwards because Edwards would give the Dems a fresh start and then the mantra of Anybody but Bush could start all over again.
Joey, you can post all you want on the issues but they do not matter at this point in time. This election is now about the fitness of Kerry to serve as President and CIC and until he releases all the records through the signing of Form 180 and puts this to rest, he will continue to slip in the polls.
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (www.swiftvets.com) have a 28 minute documentary coming out next month that will torpedo and finish off Kerry's sinking boat.
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http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,686045,00.html
Excerpts from Time Magazine:
THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get the first of three Purple Hearts. SBVT alleges that the wound was a minor, self-inflicted scratch. Kerry says on Dec. 2, 1968, he and his two crewmates that night fired on men on a riverbank. It's unclear if someone fired back, but shrapnel hit Kerry's arm. Louis Letson, a medical officer at the time, says that he treated Kerry's wound and that it was too small to justify a medal. William Schacte Jr. says he was on the boat that night and there was no enemy fire; he says Kerry was injured by a grenade Kerry himself launched.
THE EVIDENCE Kerry's medical record was signed not by Letson but by corpsman J.C. Carreon. Letson claims Carreon routinely signed forms for him. Letson told the Los Angeles Times he heard the wound was self-inflicted thirdhand — from his subordinates, who heard it from Kerry's two crewmates. They deny saying that and insist Schacte wasn't on the boat that night. The military grants a Purple Heart for any wound requiring medical attention that was inflicted during action against the enemy.
THE CHARGE Kerry lied to win his Silver Star. SBVT charges that Kerry exaggerated his role in a battle on Feb. 28, 1969. In charge of a three-boat patrol that was ambushed, Kerry ordered the boats to beach in front of their attackers and engage them head on. Kerry's boat was providing cover when a rocket hit it. Kerry jumped ashore to chase a Viet Cong with a rocket launcher and killed him. SBVT says Kerry simply shot a wounded teenager in the back. Former Lieut. Commander George Elliott, Kerry's direct superior, said in a recent affidavit that he wouldn't have awarded Kerry a Silver Star if he had known the details.
THE EVIDENCE Kerry's crewmates say the boat was in clear danger. Besides, Kerry won the medal for leadership during the whole battle, and Elliott describes the entire episode in the citation he wrote. Elliott later told the Boston Globe he had made a terrible mistake in signing the affidavit. Then he signed a new affidavit standing behind the first. When newspapers questioned Kerry's account in 1996, Elliott went to Boston to uphold it. The commander of one of the other two boats, Chicago Tribune editor William Rood, corroborated Kerry's story last week.
THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. On March 13, 1969, five swift boats were patrolling the Bay Hap River when a mine detonated under one of them. Kerry and Green Beret Jim Rassmann, aboard other boats, claim gunfire started coming from the riverbank. After another blast knocked Rassmann overboard, Kerry pulled him onto his boat. Three members of SBVT, including Larry Thurlow, insist that there was no gunfire and that Kerry initially fled the scene, returning to help Rassmann only when it was clear there was no danger.
THE EVIDENCE The Navy also awarded Thurlow a Bronze Star that day, and his citation, signed by Elliott and uncovered by the Washington Post, reads, "All the boats came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." A separate damage report mentions three bullet holes in Thurlow's boat.
THE CHARGE Kerry lied about spending Christmas Eve 1968 in Cambodia. In 1979 and 1986, Kerry recounted a mission in which he and his crew boated into neutral Cambodia. The Pentagon said at the time that Vietnam's neighbor was off limits, and Kerry said his mission was proof of Richard Nixon's dishonesty. Steven Gardner, the sole member of Kerry's crew to join the SBVT, says their boat was 50 miles from the Cambodian border that day.
THE EVIDENCE Kerry has no proof he entered Cambodia, though other U.S. forces certainly did. Two crew members have said the boat was near the border. Records show that the boat was about 50 miles south of Cambodia that morning. Kerry and his crew headed upriver and could have been at the border in two hours. On Christmas Eve, Nixon was President-elect; he would not be in the White House for a month. A Kerry campaign spokesman now says that Kerry might not have been in Cambodia that night but that he definitely went there on a mission.
Excerpts from Time Magazine:
THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get the first of three Purple Hearts. SBVT alleges that the wound was a minor, self-inflicted scratch. Kerry says on Dec. 2, 1968, he and his two crewmates that night fired on men on a riverbank. It's unclear if someone fired back, but shrapnel hit Kerry's arm. Louis Letson, a medical officer at the time, says that he treated Kerry's wound and that it was too small to justify a medal. William Schacte Jr. says he was on the boat that night and there was no enemy fire; he says Kerry was injured by a grenade Kerry himself launched.
THE EVIDENCE Kerry's medical record was signed not by Letson but by corpsman J.C. Carreon. Letson claims Carreon routinely signed forms for him. Letson told the Los Angeles Times he heard the wound was self-inflicted thirdhand — from his subordinates, who heard it from Kerry's two crewmates. They deny saying that and insist Schacte wasn't on the boat that night. The military grants a Purple Heart for any wound requiring medical attention that was inflicted during action against the enemy.
THE CHARGE Kerry lied to win his Silver Star. SBVT charges that Kerry exaggerated his role in a battle on Feb. 28, 1969. In charge of a three-boat patrol that was ambushed, Kerry ordered the boats to beach in front of their attackers and engage them head on. Kerry's boat was providing cover when a rocket hit it. Kerry jumped ashore to chase a Viet Cong with a rocket launcher and killed him. SBVT says Kerry simply shot a wounded teenager in the back. Former Lieut. Commander George Elliott, Kerry's direct superior, said in a recent affidavit that he wouldn't have awarded Kerry a Silver Star if he had known the details.
THE EVIDENCE Kerry's crewmates say the boat was in clear danger. Besides, Kerry won the medal for leadership during the whole battle, and Elliott describes the entire episode in the citation he wrote. Elliott later told the Boston Globe he had made a terrible mistake in signing the affidavit. Then he signed a new affidavit standing behind the first. When newspapers questioned Kerry's account in 1996, Elliott went to Boston to uphold it. The commander of one of the other two boats, Chicago Tribune editor William Rood, corroborated Kerry's story last week.
THE CHARGE Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star. On March 13, 1969, five swift boats were patrolling the Bay Hap River when a mine detonated under one of them. Kerry and Green Beret Jim Rassmann, aboard other boats, claim gunfire started coming from the riverbank. After another blast knocked Rassmann overboard, Kerry pulled him onto his boat. Three members of SBVT, including Larry Thurlow, insist that there was no gunfire and that Kerry initially fled the scene, returning to help Rassmann only when it was clear there was no danger.
THE EVIDENCE The Navy also awarded Thurlow a Bronze Star that day, and his citation, signed by Elliott and uncovered by the Washington Post, reads, "All the boats came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." A separate damage report mentions three bullet holes in Thurlow's boat.
THE CHARGE Kerry lied about spending Christmas Eve 1968 in Cambodia. In 1979 and 1986, Kerry recounted a mission in which he and his crew boated into neutral Cambodia. The Pentagon said at the time that Vietnam's neighbor was off limits, and Kerry said his mission was proof of Richard Nixon's dishonesty. Steven Gardner, the sole member of Kerry's crew to join the SBVT, says their boat was 50 miles from the Cambodian border that day.
THE EVIDENCE Kerry has no proof he entered Cambodia, though other U.S. forces certainly did. Two crew members have said the boat was near the border. Records show that the boat was about 50 miles south of Cambodia that morning. Kerry and his crew headed upriver and could have been at the border in two hours. On Christmas Eve, Nixon was President-elect; he would not be in the White House for a month. A Kerry campaign spokesman now says that Kerry might not have been in Cambodia that night but that he definitely went there on a mission.
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I dont know that they are his to release. My assumption is that they are military documents, in the possession of the Military and as such its up to the pentagon to release them, not Kerry.
???
To my knowlege, Kerry hasnt refused to release them, but I might be wrong. If he has, show me where, otherwise we need to know why they havent been released.
There are some who claim Kerry has lied to get his medals, some say he hasnt lied, but inaccurate, others say he was truthful........ Who is to be believed? We have no way to know.
Want to talk about ability to lead? CIC Bush just fired one of his high level campaign people who was directly involved with the swift group, a direct violation of election law. Bush doesnt even know what his own campaign people are doing. Not exactly a great leadership quality in my book. As Truman used to say, the buck stops here.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Everyday he doesn't release them he is denying to do so.Joeychgo said:
Releasing the records will allow us to know.Joeychgo said:
Yes, leadership was again shown by Bush. Come on, an organization usually has hundreds even thousands of volunteers. I sent a written letter to G.W. telling him in the future to personally interview every single volunteer from every state and give them personal lie detectors tests (alla Meet the Parents), so as to avoid this situation in the future.Joeychgo said:
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Opps. Don't touch the paint
Touch the photo to see which Swift officers support John Kerry
The purpose of this photo is to correct the misleading use of our images -- against our will -- to further John Kerry's campaign.
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The purpose of this photo is to correct the misleading use of our images -- against our will -- to further John Kerry's campaign.
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Your assuming he even can release anything -
Your assuming that he is the only one that would have to agree to release them -
SO - guilty until proven innocent?
Have you heard Kerry's own recorded account of the "Christmas Eve in Cambodia" story? It was "SEARED, SEARED" in his memory. I like a good exaggerated story just as much as the next guy, but not to be taken completely seriously. I'm not saying Kerry didn't rescue that guy when he fell overboard. I'm not saying Kerry is a criminal. But in my book, a "hero" doesn't boast about his heroic deeds by using them to seduce the public. And don't you agree that at least one, maybe even two of the purple hearts awarded was iffy? This is not a huge leap for people to question those events, especially since Kerry paraded it to the entire nation. Here's an example: SOLDIER: "Doc, I've had this headache since that last firefight I had." DOCTOR: "Okay, here's some Tylenol, and here's your purple heart. This is your third one, you say? Well, I guess you're going home early then. Congratulations hero." Enough of the controversy, let's just see the records. And the point about the Bush "firing" a campaign person was very weak and completely frivolous. The guy was a volunteer according to my local news at 5. Do you think Bush should have kept him on his campaign?
Joeychgo said:
And you're grasping at straws. Quit defending the release of these documents, it's just not logical unless you fear the accusations are true. It may not clear everything up, but it should help one way or the other.
And he's not guilty. But in an election, time is of the essence. Kerry is just smoke-screening through a very damaging attack on his campaign, IMHO.
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On a side note: Does anybody know when we can expect some televised debates between Bush and Kerry, and between Cheney and Edwards? I haven't been this excited about a debate since the '88 debates. I voted for Bush then, but watching Benson tell Quayle, "sir, you are no Jack Kennedy" was priceless. What a knockout punch! I'm hoping there will be another historic exchange.