Steering Wheel Position and Suspension Work Issue

SouthernGemini

SouthernGemini

Active LVC Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
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Location
Abita Springs
Facts: 1998 Mark VIII, 120k miles, hub swab and Cobra calipers, larger wheels.

As some of you may have read in previous posts, I had an issue with vibration under hard braking as well as occasional clunking and determined pass side inner and outer tie rod ends needed to be changed as well as both ball joints. Video on ball joints here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5GsG4quDyQ

I pressed new ball joints using my press and the strut bushing (SRB?) seemed fine. I put the arm in a vise, inserted a large screwdriver though the hole and limited movement; when using real force. The same goes for the arm fulcrum bushing (for lack of a better description) on the end that connects to the frame.

When I put it back together, my steering was off but I was going to get it aligned anyway. Still had a clunk but since the steering was off I didn't want to jump to conclusions. The 'unknown name' bushings LOOKED fine so I didn't change them. Question #4 is about this.

I describe what I have have done to the shop that does all of my alignment work, Phil Meraux Tire. They do tires and alignment. No work on your fuel sending unit, no repair on your inoperable window regulator and won't touch your broken sunroof. They make sure your steering wheel is straight and even test drive your vehicle before signing off. I have watched them drive my car two or three times to ensure a proper job before an $80 payment is requested. This time I dropped it off, they called me to let me know it was done but there is an issue. The clunking is still there and (but not as bad as before) and they voiced the same opinion as you guys do. Second, my steering wheel does not return to 'normal' after a hard turn one way or the other. It will be slightly off. The car feels to ride correctly, no pulling but the steering wheel will be 20 degrees from one side to the other.

They do not do this type of work so he's giving me 30 days to fix my issue and bring back to him for another alignment. Really, he will give me more if I tell him I an on it and trying to find a solution b/c I am a long time customer and have 5 insured/driving vehicles but I am on a time limit.

So here are my questions:
1. Chris2523 in the thread below it was mentioned how you cut down Moog sleeves and Mcraft bushings for SRBs b/c they are not manufactured anymore. Can you or anyone else give me links or part numbers? Again, I have a press and bearing kit so I am not that worried about effort I need to put out.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...eed-some-help-please&highlight=steering+wheel

2. In the thread below, Trippen Out says: :"make sure you center the steering wheel and dont let it move. if you start taking that stuff off and it gets moved it will be a pain to get it right again. No one warned me on that and it cost me loot and i think my steering rack is shot now." I can't figure out how this would hurt my steering rack. Is there something I am missing?

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...s-and-tie-rods-today&highlight=steering+wheel

3. The following thread by Gus_Mahn shows how the LS has an adjustment on the steering rack and got rid of his clunk. Anyone know if our Marks have the same adjustment? Maybe this has something to do with my steering wheel not lining up correctly?

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...-the-front-end-clunk&highlight=steering+wheel

4. Along with the SRB that the bottom of the strut attaches to, I am investigating replacing the bushings between the SRB and the ball joint. The ones on there are blue, come in two pieces and a bar goes through them. The bar goes diagonally toward the front of the car and bolts to part of the frame. There are large black bushings on the end by the front. When I type in stabilizer bar bushings, I am getting the bushings for the stabilizer so what is this called or better yet, maybe a link to some parts?

Thanks for any input guys.
 
This is why you should replace all the front end suspension parts at one time. If one part is severely worn, chances are that the other parts are as well.
 
Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know but I think you may be mixed up on some terms, so hopefully this clears it up. That diagonal bar is called the strut rod. The bushings on both ends of it are the strut rod bushings (SRB).

This thread has a lot of good info and has the part numbers.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?86617-Rebuilding-front-SLA-suspension

One of the posts of mine from that thread has some "exploded" diagrams I put together, with all the Motorcraft part numbers.

strutrodfull.jpg


frontbushings.jpg


rearbushings.jpg


Everything on these diagrams is still available except the "sleeves" (and a couple of the nuts) , which pretty much sucks. A couple of people were making their own on a lathe, but I don't remember if they were selling them. Jay, you out there?

I wish I had some useful advice, but my car has had front end problems since the day I bought it (stiff steering and won't properly return to center) so I'm kind of clueless.
 
Marcus, this is a great help! Funny how they call that strut rod b/c it doesn't really touch the strut. While shopping for parts last night I saw one website called it a 'stay bar' which I thought was accurate. You can adjust it to the correct alignment and it will 'stay' the LCA from moving front to back. But hey, we didn't invent the terms, just buy parts for them. Thankfully I have the sleeves and they don't appear damaged so that is my next step, order SRBs. This weekend a buddy of mine are going to use crowbars and begin applying pressure to parts while someone turns the wheel. I'm disappointed you are having the same 'not return to center' that I am having. We can put a man on the moon before bell bottoms were 'in' yet steering issues cause us to ponder.

My Great 8, that is what I was wondering. Could my rack have 'looseness' in it? With new ball joints, I know my rotational axis via the LCA is stable so something b/t outer tie rod end to outer tie rod end is awry or the UCAs are bad. Hence why I am having someone come over to dig into this issue. I am not the type to just replace everything and hope a dart hits the target. From another post I think I read there is a link (u joint or something) connecting the rack to what is eventually the steering wheel in your hand. If that is bad, I can see that producing my (and Marcus') dilemma. The tires will stay in alignment but there will be looseness in the steering wheel.

I'll let you know what I find.
 
My bushings and balls joints are all in ok shape. but my rack is shot which makes the car move around when i hit bumps, grooves in the road, and its scary as all hell when theres ice on the roads. with the front jacked up and steering wheel locked i can push the tire and both wheels turn about 5 inches back and forth. dunno if this helps but thought i'd post my thoughts on the "looseness" u refer to
 
I appreciate it aimone. I remember seeing that in the 'how hard to change steering rack' thread. 5 inches is a huge amount of movement! You must feel you are driving on wax paper. I at best have 1/4 inch. I didn't video and post it b/c one can hardly see it.
 
I noticed your lowers have Grease Fittings so they have most likely been replaced before but jeez are they whooped now :eek:

On my first Mark I had over 200k on what seemed to be the original Lowers but I did have this problem
[video=youtube;PWlDty4U2n8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWlDty4U2n8[/video]

I got a set of the strut rod to lower arm bushings from Autozone and with some cursing to the engineers that designed the system, replaced them and all went well after that :rolleyes:

Now my current '98 LSC LBJ's are so shot it's not even funny and it's only got 88k on the clock :(
 
Gosh, what is it with this design? It is not without its issues, that's for sure. We got into the front end and found a little play in the UCA joint that attaches to top of the spindle, but nothing drastic. To be safe, I ordered two UCAs that should be in next week. I didn't like doing it b/c I hate guessing if it will fix the problem but I am 'front end committed'.

Here are part of the strut rod bushings. They don't seem bad but are soft so... I bit the bullet and ordered both sets; one to frame and one to LCA.
strut-rod-bushings.jpg


The strut rod on the pass had some buildup that I will clean off but drivers side looked good.
strut-rod-passenger.jpg

strut-rod-driver.jpg


With the holidays here and so much going on, I filed paperwork with the state of Louisiana to certify non-use until Feb 1st 2014. This way I can take my insurance off WITHOUT having to turn my plate into the state. This gives me almost 6 weeks to 'fix this'.
 
SouthernGemini said:
With the holidays here and so much going on, I filed paperwork with the state of Louisiana to certify non-use until Feb 1st 2014. This way I can take my insurance off WITHOUT having to turn my plate into the state. This gives me almost 6 weeks to 'fix this'.
Click to expand...
I'll have to check and see if I can do this in NJ so I can drop the insurance off my WRX but keep the plates on it?
 
So I have an update. I got the other tie rod end replaced, did both UCAs and strut rod bushings. From the pics below, you can see the inside of the original bushings are slightly wallowed out. They came off rather easily. The new blue ones did not go on as easily.
suspension-1.jpg

suspension-5.jpg

suspension-6.jpg


Not much wear on the original UCAs and if they were just as clean as the new ones, it wouldn't be super easy to know which was which.
suspension-2.jpg

suspension-3.jpg

suspension-4.jpg

suspension-7.jpg

suspension-8.jpg


I brought it back to be aligned and it rides well. No slack, steering returns to center and the most responsive since I bought the car in July 2013. It still raises my curiosity as to what parts did the most improvement. My guess is the bushings; the UCAs are just in too good of shape. The big clunk is gone but I get an occasional clunk from the right front every now and then. It doesn't sound like suspension but similar to a brake pad bracket being loose. Or even pads within the bracket having a bit too much room to move. I'll worry about that later though. At this point my big clunk is gone, I can take a curve faster than before and the car feels right and no shudder when I brake hard.

2002WRXSTi: did you check with NJ to see if you can file a 'non-use' form and keep your plate?
 
Southern Gemini, those front strut rod bushings are notorious for early failure. I recommend keeping your OEM washers for those bushings.

If/when those blue bushings wear out, you can use the factory washers with a set of OEM bushings and the sleeves that I make and sell. Many people (including me, in the past) have thrown away those washers, only to wish that they had kept them when they return to the OEM bushings.

The bushings are still available from the dealer, and other sources, but the washers and sleeves are no longer available. I included some pictures of what I make below:

image.jpg
image.jpg

image.jpg


image.jpg
 
98lincmk7lsc: Thanks for the heads up and from the reading I did on here before I did the job, I saved all of the old parts...for that reason. In the third pic, you can see the metal of the sleeve was beginning to shear. Had I known that it was as simple as contacting you to get those sleeves, I may have gone that route instead of the blue bastards. I need to have a personal sticky to your handle so that I can remember to go to you regarding this. Heck, I'll print your post and stick it in the box of old parts. That way it will be there when I need it.
 
Damn,

Beat me to it. :)

Op, those bushings are notorious for failure with very little life. You may consider buying the factory pieces and get it done right in one shot.

I HIGHLY recommend it.



I'm also glad to see "well thought out, and punctuated posts" here.

Welcome.
 
SouthernGemini said:
2002WRXSTi: did you check with NJ to see if you can file a 'non-use' form and keep your plate?
Click to expand...

No as it is parked outside right now and as far as I know of if you have a non use car (uninsured) it must be parked in a locked garage. I'm looking at renting a 2 car garage to park store some stuff and it will go there possibly?
 
I realize this is extraordinarily late, however to answer the questions of the history on those parts.....if memory serves, upper and lower ball joints, outer tie rods and strut rod bushings had all been replaced in March of 2012. From your video, I'd say there was definite premature failure in those lower ball joints. All of the parts were sourced from a local reputable vendor whose website is http://www.autotechsupply.com/products.htm. I recall the strut bar being quite a MFSOB of a job. (if you can't figure out MFSOB, think expletives) I had to let someone else do the job for me, as if you recall Andy, I had had back surgery in Dec 2011 and wasn't able to do any work like that for nearly a year thereafter. I'm sorry to hear you pulled the old Mark off the road for some time, though I seem to recall you saying you didn't drive your thunderbird much in the winter season either. I hope all worked out for the best and that everything is back to normal. Sorry I wasn't every available to aid you in your quests on those items, that job ended up with me doing 42000 miles in 12 months and spending 112 nights on the road away from home. I spent little time doing anything else, and as we had conversed about it in the end although I enjoyed it, the money vs the time spent didn't come to a degree that I was happy with and after that road warrior year from hell I left the job. This is literally the first time I have returned onto the LVC site since your visit and purchase. I must say, I despise this POS Honda that I had to purchase to replace the Mark and, unfortunately, still drive that everyday common turd still. If it wasn't for having a daughter not far off from a license, I sell that econobox and get back into something like the Mark. If you need any further history, I'll try and supply you with what I can recall.
 
Brett! Good to hear from you man. Alas, you lasted much longer as a road warrior than I did. I made it to about 4 or 5 months before throwing in the towel. Although most memories were pleasant and I have a couple of good stories, having a large part of my life pass me by for a meager salary had to come to an end. Since you have a family, I am impressed you made it that long.

The latest on the Mark VIII front end: All was well for a couple of months and a small clunk (nowhere near as what started this thread) was becoming apparent from the driver front wheel. Having looked and come up with nothing, I took it to my mechanic. The sound mostly came from when the car was reversing and then applying the brakes. He and another mechanic found the issue to be worn out brake hardware. (To everyone reading this thread, the car has Cobra calipers thus a different set up than the standard Mark set up) Once he replaced the hardware, "voila" no more noise. The latest issue was I hit the brakes really hard one morning and the ABS acted funny for the next 5 min. A couple of days later, the ABS light came on. My mechanic looked at it and apparently it is a speed sensor on the rear axle that is not available anymore? I've looked some but have more pressing things to take care of.

Oh yeah, my other car that I don't drive much in the winter is not a Thunderbird but a supercharged Crown Victoria. I blew the motor in Feb and it is at the shop right now getting another motor. Here is the link in case you are interested.

http://www.lightningrodder.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260378

I need to add some pics of progress over the last week but time is limited.
 
Andy it wasn't really so much the excess travel as it was that the pay didn't make it worth it. I really enjoyed the job, as I had plenty of time to myself and most times it was amusing to watch people's stupid daily habits. But then I got to realizing that it simply wasn't making ANY financial sense and later on that I was only being paid an additions $65 a day to stay out of town, and most of the time I was spending $100 a night on a hotel. (for those who see that math and think I must be a moron, all my cases were 2-3 days and mostly 2.....so it came out to $130 extra of which $100 was on hotel) I also had some disagreements with my case manager and the company owner about the amount of travel so it became best to part ways before the relationship went south. Within 60 days of my departure, my case manager who had been there for 17 years left, the Investigator that got me in with the company and had been then 5 years left, and another investigator that I had done a little work with who had been there 13 years left. The reasons for all were the same......to much time spent working for to little pay. I had several other Firms offer me positions but even with different pay systems, they all still to me weren't of the value they would need to be for me to seriously consider.

He and another mechanic found the issue to be worn out brake hardware.
Click to expand...
When you say hardware, what parts are you talking? the slides and bolts? This is another thing that seems to have had a shorter than average life span if so. I bought all those parts new when I did the conversion. I know it was many years ago, but still that seems like a short life span. I made a short effort search on that ABS sensor as I couldn't recall there being one. I did find them for sale, though for some reason the left is 5 times the price of the right?? You can find them here; http://www.discountautoparts.com/Sh...tid=66@@Rear Brk Hardware/ABS Sensors&mode=PA

Hate to hear that about the Vic. Did it at least go out in a blaze of glory?
 
I just redid the whole front end on my Mark VIII....new lower ball joints and upper control arms and shes driving like a dream.....no more squeeks.
 
Marcus said:
Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know but I think you may be mixed up on some terms, so hopefully this clears it up. That diagonal bar is called the strut rod. The bushings on both ends of it are the strut rod bushings (SRB).

This thread has a lot of good info and has the part numbers.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?86617-Rebuilding-front-SLA-suspension

One of the posts of mine from that thread has some "exploded" diagrams I put together, with all the Motorcraft part numbers.

strutrodfull.jpg


frontbushings.jpg


rearbushings.jpg


Everything on these diagrams is still available except the "sleeves" (and a couple of the nuts) , which pretty much sucks. A couple of people were making their own on a lathe, but I don't remember if they were selling them. Jay, you out there?

I wish I had some useful advice, but my car has had front end problems since the day I bought it (stiff steering and won't properly return to center) so I'm kind of clueless.
Click to expand...

I have searched everywhere, but cannot find the Ford Bushings for the Strut rod to the LCA, I can find bushing kits for the SR to the frame. Anyone know where the outer SRB can be purchased?
 
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