I just picked up my new engine and trans for the mark, I am going to start ordering stuff soon for the rebuild. I was just curious , would msd coils be better than the screamin demon coils? MSD cost about 45 dollars more for both so that is why I ask.
Screamin demon coils or MSD?
- Thread starter Bouncer88
- Start date
A wise engine calibrator once said.
"once you start the flame front" all the EXTRA spark in the world isn't going to help/promote the combustion process".
Now if you want to put Aftermarket coils on for an appearance update and dont mind a possible loss of performance or loss of dependibility them by all means, go grab some of those "painted stock coils" the aftermarket vendors sell.
They are just a stock coil that has been bridged inside, they have jumped the "starting voltage" over to the "run voltage" and run the coil in "overdrive" 100% of the time.
what happens is this wears out the coil much faster, and doesnt provide an OUNCE of performance increase.
Just say no to aftermarket coils.
"once you start the flame front" all the EXTRA spark in the world isn't going to help/promote the combustion process".
Now if you want to put Aftermarket coils on for an appearance update and dont mind a possible loss of performance or loss of dependibility them by all means, go grab some of those "painted stock coils" the aftermarket vendors sell.
They are just a stock coil that has been bridged inside, they have jumped the "starting voltage" over to the "run voltage" and run the coil in "overdrive" 100% of the time.
what happens is this wears out the coil much faster, and doesnt provide an OUNCE of performance increase.
Just say no to aftermarket coils.
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
driller runs screamin demon and so do I. I put down 255whp
ONEBADMK8
Dedicated LVC Member
Again capacitive dicharge coils are capacitive discharge coils no matter what. Stock is best, can't say it enough.
Like Tommy said unless your doing it for looks and maybe got the aftermarkets cheaper then go for it. You will see 0 gain from them. MOST of the seat of the pants people that tout these are coming from a high mileage standpoint and ANYTHING at that point feels like a gain.
Like stated before the 2500 hp Outlaw Guys use . . . what? STOCK GM LS1 coils.
Like Tommy said unless your doing it for looks and maybe got the aftermarkets cheaper then go for it. You will see 0 gain from them. MOST of the seat of the pants people that tout these are coming from a high mileage standpoint and ANYTHING at that point feels like a gain.
Like stated before the 2500 hp Outlaw Guys use . . . what? STOCK GM LS1 coils.
So.. if you take a bucket of gasoline.. and toss a match into it.
does it burn more intense if you toss TWO matches into it.
Aftermarket coils are HYPE.. nothing more nothing less.
Feel free to waste your money on "internet hype", We'll just keep running FASTER ET's than you with our STOCK COILS.
JP's stellar ET's are not because he has "aftermarket coils".
JP has many MANY well thought out mods that make his car fast.
The presence of aftermarket coils on JP's car is of little consequence IMHO.
ONEBADMK8
Dedicated LVC Member
I believe they worked well Im just stating from purely a gain standpoint.
I understand the whole combustion process but was always curious about a test I read a few years back. MM&FF tested the Screamin Demon coils on a 01 GT and all they did was the coils. The car picked up 12 rwhp on the coils.
My first thought was they must have had a couple dying coils but they said all the stock coils were tested and in perfect working order.
Wonder whats up with that. I can see the benefits in a boosted application as FI can blow a spark out at higher boost levels but how does a NA benefit from it like that.
They just fudge the numbers?
My first thought was they must have had a couple dying coils but they said all the stock coils were tested and in perfect working order.
Wonder whats up with that. I can see the benefits in a boosted application as FI can blow a spark out at higher boost levels but how does a NA benefit from it like that.
They just fudge the numbers?
Roadboss
Dedicated LVC Member
I am putting down as much as anybody, and it's stock coils for me. Save your money.
cadillackman
Dedicated LVC Member
I think the screamin demon coils are cheaper than OEM, unless you get a good discount. I got them as a gift 3 years ago & they've held up well. But there was no noticeable difference.
THAT would make a great sig file quote.
Some folks get a "warm fuzzy" feeling from aftermarket coils, that is fine I guess.
But so long as everyone is on the same page... as they aren't a performance modification.
Articles in MM&FF are not unbiased by any stretch of the imagination.
Their sole purpose is to get YOU the READER to PURCHASE the advertisers products.
your correct the OEM coils probably had an issue which made this car a prime candidate for "gains" from "coils".
Hell..
Replacing a worn out COP BOOT will show 12 HP on the dyno.. or MORE
I'll bet my car was down 25HP when it had 2 bad coil boots.
Did those 8 dollar boots give me a 25HP increase, SURE THEY DID.
HAHAHA
:lol: I have two bad ones and keep forgetting to buy new ones. First time I changed plugs I just wrapped them in duct tape (couldnt find the electrical tape) and the second time I was like "oh yeah, forgot" and then re wrapped them in electrical tape. 
I really should go get some new boots.
I really should go get some new boots.
Trippen Out
Dedicated LVC Member
:HIJACK: so if the aftermarket coils dont do anything for performance then how do wires. i see geno sells wires that say they produce rwhp.. yet a spark is a spark. so whats the deal infact on his very site http://www.lincolnmotorsport.com/MarkVIII/ViewDetails/nologywires.html it says that it makes the spark stronger. isnt that what the coils are doing. so if the coils are not any better how can wires be any better. so does this mean we should just use oem wires and coils. as the others are no benefit. or have i been huffing the glue again
Actually I have been thinking about this and wanted to run it by you guys. Electronics have been my specialty for over 20 years and I even automated a sugar cane boiler which is what made me think more about this. See we had a big spark plug to light a propane torch that would light a larger oil torch that would light the bagass torch. Needed progressively larger flames to light the higher flowing fuel torches.
On a car engine that is spinning past 5000 RPM there is enough air flow that it could blow the spark out even N/A. See the coil is firing so fast it cant fully charge so the spark is weaker and with the excessive air flow coupled with the lower energy could cause the plug to not ignite the mixture properly.
If its a tiny spark the mixture may start to burn but almost instantly burns out because its ignition wasn't hot enough to complete the burn.
You can get partial explosions, our cars shoot fuel out the pipes when they run perfect (very minute amount). That is unburned fuel that was in there when it went boom yet didn't burn with it.
Also with a large, hotter spark it can catch a greater area of the mixture at time of ignition theoretically causing the "complete" explosion to happen faster also resulting in a HP gain.
So now that I think about it a better coil will allow for a larger hotter spark at higher loads causing a better burn at higher RPMs and less chance of getting blown out.
Does that make sense or should I lay off teh weed? :lol:
On a car engine that is spinning past 5000 RPM there is enough air flow that it could blow the spark out even N/A. See the coil is firing so fast it cant fully charge so the spark is weaker and with the excessive air flow coupled with the lower energy could cause the plug to not ignite the mixture properly.
If its a tiny spark the mixture may start to burn but almost instantly burns out because its ignition wasn't hot enough to complete the burn.
You can get partial explosions, our cars shoot fuel out the pipes when they run perfect (very minute amount). That is unburned fuel that was in there when it went boom yet didn't burn with it.
Also with a large, hotter spark it can catch a greater area of the mixture at time of ignition theoretically causing the "complete" explosion to happen faster also resulting in a HP gain.
So now that I think about it a better coil will allow for a larger hotter spark at higher loads causing a better burn at higher RPMs and less chance of getting blown out.
Does that make sense or should I lay off teh weed? :lol:
Trippen Out
Dedicated LVC Member
all i saw was you wanted to hand me the weed.
danny_holtermann
Dedicated LVC Member
when my coil pack went out i went with sceaming demon, but not to gain any power, mainly for apearance, definately not something i would brag about and push on to someone
driller
Dedicated LVC Member
You should be aware the Screamin' Demon coils are suggested to be paired with the LiveWires spark plug wires because they are supposedly putting out more energy.
I got the wires cause they looked cool in blue and I got tired of the red MSDs.
In all seriousness, any gains from ignition components are only what you gain back from the inevitable loss of performance with aged ignition components. In the MM&FF example, the stock coils were probably performed "fine" but they were most likely well "used", that is to say they were not "new". What they should've done is followed up with a new set of stock coils.
I got the wires cause they looked cool in blue and I got tired of the red MSDs.
In all seriousness, any gains from ignition components are only what you gain back from the inevitable loss of performance with aged ignition components. In the MM&FF example, the stock coils were probably performed "fine" but they were most likely well "used", that is to say they were not "new". What they should've done is followed up with a new set of stock coils.
davidm
Well-Known LVC Member
My 93 has 87,000 miles on it with the original coil packs, thinking about replacing them with new stock ones.
Found a good price for them on Amazon.
Everything if fine with the way it runs, should I not waste my money?
I already updated to the 9mm racing wires.
David
Found a good price for them on Amazon.
Everything if fine with the way it runs, should I not waste my money?
I already updated to the 9mm racing wires.
David
What I think is if you are pushing under 400 hp then the stockers are just as good as a performance one. I think the only benifit of a "hotter" coil would be on a blown application where the blower/turbo has the ability to blow out a weak spark.
Now I am gonna get flamed. I had whatever the reccomended plugs are in the car and put them in there when I bought it. I had a misfire problem and thought it was a bad plug and bought some E3 plugs cause I had an online coupon that was buy one get one so I figured I would try it. Still had the misfire and turned out to be a bad MAF cause the precious owner cut out the sampling tube.... dont ask, I dont know why.
So it ran fine and I got curious and swapped the old plugs (clean with only 2000 miles on them) and started her up. Started instantly and ran smooth, drove greak and barked the tires into second. Ran it for two tanks of gas then swapped the E3s back in. This is what I noticed. The car idled smoother, not dramatically cause it ran super smooth anyway but the small vibration of the engine went away to the point I didnt know it was running. The car also broke the tires loose easier and broke them loose on the 1-2 shift. The biggest difference was how much better the car pulled between 5600-6300 RPM. Just over 5500 you can feel the power drop off by 3-4% with the regular plugs. With the E3s it didnt lose one bit. They also increased my average MPG by .6
While I wouldnt use them on a heavily moded engine they work excellent on a near stock application.
Now I am gonna get flamed. I had whatever the reccomended plugs are in the car and put them in there when I bought it. I had a misfire problem and thought it was a bad plug and bought some E3 plugs cause I had an online coupon that was buy one get one so I figured I would try it. Still had the misfire and turned out to be a bad MAF cause the precious owner cut out the sampling tube.... dont ask, I dont know why.
So it ran fine and I got curious and swapped the old plugs (clean with only 2000 miles on them) and started her up. Started instantly and ran smooth, drove greak and barked the tires into second. Ran it for two tanks of gas then swapped the E3s back in. This is what I noticed. The car idled smoother, not dramatically cause it ran super smooth anyway but the small vibration of the engine went away to the point I didnt know it was running. The car also broke the tires loose easier and broke them loose on the 1-2 shift. The biggest difference was how much better the car pulled between 5600-6300 RPM. Just over 5500 you can feel the power drop off by 3-4% with the regular plugs. With the E3s it didnt lose one bit. They also increased my average MPG by .6
While I wouldnt use them on a heavily moded engine they work excellent on a near stock application.
ONEBADMK8
Dedicated LVC Member
The Nology's do work, AFTER the coils. They have a capacitor (voltage amplifier) after the coils and produce a hotter spark.
Trippen Out
Dedicated LVC Member
so a hotter spark means better performance. but a longer spark doesnt mean crap? i must not understand the point of an aftermarket coil pack such as these demons. i thought they gave you a hotter longer spark.
no you just need to "come over"