Obama Poll Numbers

[fossten]

Why read the chapter when what i want is right there? Should i read all of genesis to understand the first part?

From here on it's purely bickering. That's why i think it should be closed

I don't know what you mean by scholar either... The bible isn't my cup of tea... Those gospels.... :Bang . Now the quaran, there's a book that's much more intuitive. M

You lose. You took a verse completely out of context, and you whine when I patiently explain that you need to read the entire chapter since the verse you quoted is literally THE END OF A STORY JESUS TOLD.

I have no patience for fools.

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

I lose? lol dude, i'm suppose to be the immature one here, i'm only 20.

What was the story about? And who?

 

[fossten]

I lose? lol dude, i'm suppose to be the immature one here, i'm only 20.

What was the story about? And who?

Too lazy to do the reading yourself? Or did you drop out of high school and don't know how?

If you're going to make whiny excuses about your age, maybe you shouldn't be posting in this forum.

 

[foxpaws]

I am glad I don't have to reaffirm my faith by slandering others...

You have NO IDEA what Christian values are.

It might be an indication on whose faith is stronger.

 

[fossten]

I am glad I don't have to reaffirm my faith by slandering others...



It might be an indication on whose faith is stronger.

Slander? Tsk tsk, fox...victimization again? Sorry, this fish ain't biting. But keep whining, it amuses me.

Oh, and it would be libel, not slander, if you could prove it, which you can't.

I can tell you that you have no idea what Christian values are based on your attempted smear of me in that statement. You think allowing falsehoods to be believed is Christ-like? You've obviously never read the gospels.

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Too lazy to do the reading yourself? Or did you drop out of high school and don't know how?

If you're going to make whiny excuses about your age, maybe you shouldn't be posting in this forum.

Damn. Taking the high road? I've read about it. And i know that he was telling a story about himself, if he was doing that. The bible is all garbage. It looks like it was written by a preschooler at times. I'd rather waste my time reading something better.

 

[fossten]

Damn. Taking the high road? I've read about it. And i know that he was telling a story about himself, if he was doing that. The bible is all garbage. It looks like it was written by a preschooler at times. I'd rather waste my time reading something better.

Ah, you believe it's garbage. But you don't even know what the Bible is. You haven't read it, so how do you know it's garbage? There are 66 books in the Bible. Which of those books are garbage, and why?

And if it's garbage, then how can you effectively comment about it?

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Ah, you believe it's garbage. But you don't even know what the Bible is. You haven't read it, so how do you know it's garbage? There are 66 books in the Bible. Which of those books are garbage, and why?

And if it's garbage, then how can you effectively comment about it?

Ah, i've heard this argument before. Some guy was trying to rationalize dinosaurs and the bible.

I can come to the conclusion sir. I look at it in simple, rational terms. A=B and B=C, therefore A=C. It's simple. You know this principle is true, because you sir are educated.

What parts are garbage? How about all of it. Genesis for starters, the earth was created in 7 days being most obvious; burning bush, parting the red sea, the commandments, jonah and the fish, prayer. But my biggest one, is one of the commandments itself

"3 Do not have any other gods before me."

I often hear "Jesus is lord". So he's god... but just a mini-god or something.

I'm sure you've heard all this before, and have taken a few seconds to reason it with your own logic, as have i. I know that you wont respect my opinion in it lol so i couldn't give a :q:q:q:q about yours either

And, you know that the gospels were written hundreds of years after christ, i for one think that their memories were mostly gone by then.

 

[foxpaws]

Libel - right, (drat, that does always get me... next time I won't put the attorney on the plane before I get online ) although, it was almost as though I could hear you getting louder...

And you might not understand the love and forgiveness of Christ, but I do.

“Our love must not be a thing of words and fine talk. It must be a thing of action and sincerity." I will take my Christianity of action and sincerity over yours, Foss, of words and fine talk...

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Damn. Us 3 are the :q:q:q:q. Foss is hella facist, fox is hella liberal, and i'm dead in the middle. We're the A team from now on.

 

[fossten]

What parts are garbage? How about all of it.

If you haven't read all of it, how can you effectively make that claim?

Genesis for starters, the earth was created in 7 days being most obvious

Wrong. It was 6 days. You can't even get your facts straight before you lamely attack them.

burning bush

Bushes don't burn?

parting the red sea

What about it? You don't believe in miracles? Have you ever seen a miracle?

the commandments

What about them?

jonah and the fish

Okay, you don't believe that story. Do you believe this?

Proverbs 30:33 - Surely the churning of milk brings forth butter, and the wringing of the nose brings forth blood: so the forcing of wrath brings forth strife.

"3 Do not have any other gods before me."

I often hear "Jesus is lord". So he's god... but just a mini-god or something.

So because you just heard about it or something, and haven't researched it, you feel qualified to come to a conclusion...and yet you question MY judgment about Obama's Christianity?

How ironic.

And, you know that the gospels were written hundreds of years after christ, i for one think that their memories were mostly gone by then.

Again, your 'facts' are wrong. The gospels were written by 4 disciples, all of which lived WITH JESUS. So how could they have written the gospels hundreds of years later? Or are you claiming another miracle?

 

[fossten]

Libel - right, (drat, that does always get me... next time I won't put the attorney on the plane before I get online ) although, it was almost as though I could hear you getting louder...

And you might not understand the love and forgiveness of Christ, but I do.

“Our love must not be a thing of words and fine talk. It must be a thing of action and sincerity." I will take my Christianity of action and sincerity over yours, Foss, of words and fine talk...

According to the gospels, what subject did Christ preach about the most during his time on earth?

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

If you haven't read all of it, how can you effectively make that claim?
Like i said, i can deduce. I can draw conclusions, much like one does when talking politics.

Wrong. It was 6 days. You can't even get your facts straight before you lamely attack them.
My bad, like i said, the bible isn't where i focus. It's more of a side-study. Still, with 6 days.... How do you rationalize that?

Bushes don't burn?
They certainly don't talk to you.

What about it? You don't believe in miracles? Have you ever seen a miracle?
Of course not.

What about them? Okay, you don't believe that story. Do you believe this?
No, i don't believe that. Turning butter into milk and having someone rule me are to far for me to join together.

So because you just heard about it or something, and haven't researched it, you feel qualified to come to a conclusion...and yet you question MY judgment about Obama's Christianity?

How ironic.

Again, your 'facts' are wrong. The gospels were written by 4 disciples, all of which lived WITH JESUS. So how could they have written the gospels hundreds of years later? Or are you claiming another miracle?

You just told me there were 66 books

Ok, your move sir.

I got that whole books thing wrong. I looked into it and read:

Estimates for the dates when the canonical Gospel accounts were written vary significantly; and the evidence for any of the dates is scanty. Because the earliest surviving complete copies of the Gospels date to the 4th century and because only fragments and quotations exist before that, scholars use higher criticism to propose likely ranges of dates for the original gospel autographs. Scholars variously assess the consensus or majority view as follows:

* Mark: c. 68–73, c 65-70
* Matthew: c. 70–100. c 80-85. Some conservative scholars argue for a pre-70 date, particularly those that do not accept Mark as the first gospel written.
* Luke: c. 80–100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85, c 80-85
* John: c 90-100, c. 90–110, The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition.

Traditional Christian scholarship has generally preferred to assign earlier dates. Some historians interpret the end of the book of Acts as indicative, or at least suggestive, of its date; as Acts does not mention the death of Paul, generally accepted as the author of many of the Epistles, who was later put to death by the Romans c. 65. Acts is attributed to the author of the Gospel of Luke, and therefore would shift the chronology of authorship back, putting Mark as early as the mid 50s. Here are the dates given in the modern NIV Study Bible (for a fuller discussion see Augustinian hypothesis):

* Mark: c. 50s to early 60s, or late 60s
* Matthew: c. 50 to 70s
* Luke: c. 59 to 63, or 70s to 80s
* John: c. 85 to near 100, or 50s to 70

 

[foxpaws]

According to the gospels, what subject did Christ preach about the most during his time on earth?

I believe He started, ended and preached most about "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

 

[fossten]

I believe He started, ended and preached most about "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Yes. He also preached about hell more than any other subject. He wasn't kissing up to the spiritual leaders of his time; He condemned them. He told the truth, and he didn't mince words.

He also said that the way to heaven was narrow, and few would find it.

So that would support my position that most people aren't Christians, despite your accusation that by stating such a position I was not being Christ-like.

 

[fossten]

Like i said, i can deduce. I can draw conclusions, much like one does when talking politics.

And so can I, which is why I can say with certainty that Obama is not a Christian.

My bad, like i said, the bible isn't where i focus. It's more of a side-study. Still, with 6 days.... How do you rationalize that?

I don't have to. I exercise faith and believe it, much like you do when you accept that somehow the Big Bang exploded a bunch of matter out of nothing.

What about it? You don't believe in miracles? Have you ever seen a miracle?
Of course not.

And you likely never will. Read this:

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

No, i don't believe that. Turning butter into milk and having someone rule me are to far for me to join together.

Oh, so your big gripe with God is that you don't want Him to be your boss? Now we get to the meat of the argument.

You just told me there were 66 books

There are 66 books in the Bible. But the part YOU referred to was the FOUR GOSPELS, which are part of that 66 book collection - that you think is completely garbage.

 

[foxpaws]

Yes. He also preached about hell more than any other subject. He wasn't kissing up to the spiritual leaders of his time; He condemned them. He told the truth, and he didn't mince words.

He also said that the way to heaven was narrow, and few would find it.

So that would support my position that most people aren't Christians, despite your accusation that by stating such a position I was not being Christ-like.

Repentance was number one... “Repent, and let everyone of you be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Do you view Jesus as your Savior now, or your judge later? You seem to view him as judge first, savior second Foss.

And yes within the famous judgment quote (Matthew 7) are also the words that the path is narrow, and few will find their way... also in the Sermon on the Mount He says that few, not many would be saved.

Repentance
Confessing
Baptized
'The Father's will"...

But, what is 'few' in God's terms? Over time, Christians have been few, and still are a minority. That could be His few. Christianity has been on this earth only a very short time, and in reality is still embraced by only 1/3 of the current world wide population. Over time in real terms - the number of Christians is very small.

 

[shagdrum]

Damn. Us 3 are the :q:q:q:q. Foss is hella facist, fox is hella liberal, and i'm dead in the middle. We're the A team from now on.

"Being in the middle" means ignorant, apparently. Facism comes from the same general ideological perspective as socialism and modern liberalism. It is not at all similar to American conservatism.

Know what you are talking about before you start branding people.

 

[shagdrum]

My bad, like i said, the bible isn't where i focus. It's more of a side-study. Still, with 6 days.... How do you rationalize that?

You don't "rationalize" faith; that is the whole point of faith. To expect a rationalization is to take religion (in this case Christianity) out of context.

 

[fossten]

Repentance was number one... “Repent, and let everyone of you be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit.”

Actually the Apostle Peter said that. Do you even read things before you quote them?

Do you view Jesus as your Savior now, or your judge later? You seem to view him as judge first, savior second Foss.

Ah, tsk tsk fox...the red herring AND the ad hominem in one blow? Nice two-fer, but I'm not biting. Can you stay on subject, which is your attempt to smear me for telling the truth about Obama? I don't have to conform to your idea of Christianity, especially since you're ignorant of what it actually is.

And yes within the famous judgment quote (Matthew 7) are also the words that the path is narrow, and few will find their way... also in the Sermon on the Mount He says that few, not many would be saved.

Repentance
Confessing
Baptized
'The Father's will"...

But, what is 'few' in God's terms? Over time, Christians have been few, and still are a minority. That could be His few. Christianity has been on this earth only a very short time, and in reality is still embraced by only 1/3 of the current world wide population. Over time in real terms - the number of Christians is very small.

Very small? First you claim that God's definition of 'few' might be large, and then you're claiming that TWO BILLION PEOPLE is 'very small?' Two thousand years is a very short time?

What's next, the definition of 'is?'

You're simply not credible. And you're not making even a dent in my original claim, which is that Obama has not met the requirements to be a Christian. You're still chasing your straw man of worldwide Christianity down the rabbit hole.

I'm done with your straw man. Either get on topic, or we're done.

Either way, I'm going to bed. Perhaps you can fail again tomorrow.

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

"Being in the middle" means ignorant, apparently. Facism comes from the same general ideological perspective as socialism and modern liberalism. It is not at all similar to American conservatism.

Know what you are talking about before you start branding people.

being in the middle means i dont goto either side, not being ignorant.

and dude, maybe you need to take a few feet of that pole in your ass.

 

[shagdrum]

being in the middle means i dont goto either side, not being ignorant.

no, not knowing what you are talking about means you are ignorant. However, going off of you as an example, being in the middle means ignorant, because that is what you are on this subject. You clearly don't know the history or principles of facism as an ideology.

and dude, maybe you need to take a few feet of that pole in your ass.

And this is somehow relevant and/or disproves my argument....how?

 

[Mr Wiggl3s]

no, not knowing what you are talking about means you are ignorant. However, going off of you as an example, being in the middle means ignorant, because that is what you are on this subject. You clearly don't know the history or principles of facism as an ideology.




And this is somehow relevant and/or disproves my argument....how?

I know i'm not the most intelligent person, but i dont really try to come off like it.

It's relevant because i was mostly :q:q:q:qin around and you took it way to serious.

 

[foxpaws]

I know Peter said that - it is a good repentance quote - that is why I used it - I didn't say that Jesus said it... It shows why repentance is important and the results thereof.

Ah, tsk tsk fox...the red herring AND the ad hominem in one blow? Nice two-fer, but I'm not biting. Can you stay on subject, which is your attempt to smear me for telling the truth about Obama? I don't have to conform to your idea of Christianity, especially since you're ignorant of what it actually is.

OK - what exactly is the topic here...

Obama poll numbers.

You haven't exactly stayed 'on point' here either Foss. I was until Bryan's wandering off.

So, back to Obama's poll numbers - right? That is what this is about. Or is Bryan's misdirection stating that Obama doesn't believe in the greater good of God OK here, and other misdirections aren't?

You get to pick and choose because??????

We are all wandering all over the place, away from the subject of Obama in the polls, why not wander here? I was curious on your viewpoint of savior vs judge.

And I have noticed that it is OK to wander on your terms, but as soon as we wander into an area that you aren't comfortable with, or are afraid might undermine you in some way, the latin gets thrown on the table.

You don't conform to my idea of Christianity. I don't conform to yours either, but I am hardly ignorant of what Christianity is, or what your idea of Christianity is. I also know that they are very different things. Guess what Foss, you aren't the arbitrator of Christianity. I might just add 'Thank God'. In fact, by claiming to be you are showing how very obdurate you are.

Very small? First you claim that God's definition of 'few' might be large, and then you're claiming that TWO BILLION PEOPLE is 'very small?' Two thousand years is a very short time?

Total population of the earth since the beginning, 106 billion

2 billion Christians now (1/3rd) - I wouldn't really know how to guess total numbers of Christians over time - But, on the high side maybe 20 billion... 20%. Christianity didn't really get rolling until about 1100 AD, didn't move out of Europe until the 1600s, and you couldn't really look at real penetration world wide in the 1800s.

And you figure those are people who just say they are Christian - how many really are - maybe 1/2? so 10% of the total world population - that certainly qualifies as 'very small'.

Timeline regarding humans...

I believe that Adam and Eve is a story meant to help people understand God, and that we should probably go by science here - short - 50,000 years ago for language, music, fundamental religion, and art to rise in homo sapiens.

2,000 years out of 50,000 - only 4%.

Short amount of time.

Hope you slept well.

 

[shagdrum]

It's relevant because i was mostly :q:q:q:qin around and you took it way to serious.

If you were joking around, then you were doing it poorly. A joke has to have some degree of truth to it. You called Fossten a facist; but he is a conservative. Fox would be closer to a facist, ideologically, then fossten (though she is not at all a facist). Your attempt at humor just shined a spotlight on your ignorance.

You really shouldn't take strong positions on things you don't know much about.