New member: Head gasket failure?

sprocket

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Hi, I am new to this forum!

I just bought a '96 Diamond Anniversary Mark VIII. I picked up cheap, hoping that it might not have a bad head gasket but it's starting to look like that might be the case.

The engine had been overheated by the previous owner due to a radiator leak. I can tell someone tried stop leak in it. A shop replaced the radiator but it also ended up with a misfire. That turned out to be a loose #6 plug that also had the plug wire boot stuck or melted to the plug. I fixed that.

Then we tried to bleed the cooling system in case the shop had done it wrong (if at all). Right away it took 1 1/2 gallons through the crossover tube. The bleeding from there seemed to go pretty normal as I have done it successfully on my other Mark VIII. I test drove it, staying close to home and the temp gauge stayed rock solid. After 15 minutes I decided to take it on the highway. The gauge stayed steady until I exited the highway, then it suddenly spiked and the heat in the car went from hot to cool. I let it cool down and got it back home with the temp gauge bouncing in the upper normal range.

Since the water pump sounded like it had some bearing noise, we went ahead and changed it and also the thermostat. I used a 180 degree Stant with a wide orifice. Then all hell broke loose!

We absolutely could not bleed the cooling system. The reservoir jug would keep filling up. We noticed that someone had blocked the end of the overflow tube with a bolt, so we removed it. Then it pumped coolant out of that tube and onto the ground. We plugged it back up to avoid the mess. The idle is steady and even but there is some lifter noise. There is no coolant smell from the exhaust. The #6 plug looked like new (which it was) it was not fouled or steam cleaned. There is no misfire, even when first started. After idling for awhile the temp gauge spiked. The circulation you would expect to see looking through the cross tube doesn't seem to be there but it WAS the day before with the first bleed attempt.

I can't think of any explanation other than back pressure from a failed head gasket, and I thought I would come here to see if I could get some suggestions on other checks I can do to confirm it and figure out exactly where the breach is.

Thanks for any help!
 
We noticed that someone had blocked the end of the overflow tube with a bolt, so we removed it. Then it pumped coolant out of that tube and onto the ground. We plugged it back up to avoid the mess.

What overflow tube??? :confused:

The coolant system is a sealed system with no "overflow" - there is a radiator overflow hose in the top drivers side corner which connects to the reservoir.

If you suspect a head gasket, there is a test kit which will detect combustion gases in the coolant, you can pressure test the coolant system or you can do a compression test and/or leak down test on the cylinders.
 
What overflow tube??? :confused:

The coolant system is a sealed system with no "overflow" - there is a radiator overflow hose in the top drivers side corner which connects to the reservoir.

If you suspect a head gasket, there is a test kit which will detect combustion gases in the coolant, you can pressure test the coolant system or you can do a compression test and/or leak down test on the cylinders.


Wow, you're right and I should have known that since I have another Mark VIII. My best guess then is that the radiator they installed doesn't have a place for it to hook up so they plugged it. The car is 50 miles from me at a friend's home shop, but I will check that out. Is it important that the radiator has the hookup or can I live without it?

I'm really curious now. I'm going to have my friend look for the hookup tomorrow. If it has the wrong radiator, then I'm going to try to get the shop that recently installed it to put in the right one.
 
+1

Just hook a coolant pressure tester up to the bottle, don't pump it, start car, watch gauge . If it starts pumping pressure ripidly then you've got an exhaust to coolant leak

Then turn the car off and make sure the coolant is capable of holding 16psi
If you can't find a leak anywhere, check the passenger floor board
Check the oil after running and see if you've made a chocolate milk shake
Also make sure the fan is kicking on, should increase speed with AC on
 
+1

Just hook a coolant pressure tester up to the bottle, don't pump it, start car, watch gauge . If it starts pumping pressure ripidly then you've got an exhaust to coolant leak

Then turn the car off and make sure the coolant is capable of holding 16psi
If you can't find a leak anywhere, check the passenger floor board
Check the oil after running and see if you've made a chocolate milk shake
Also make sure the fan is kicking on, should increase speed with AC on

OK, I'll do that. Thanks for the advice! We've had it running for quite some time with the two bleed attempts and the oil looks good. In fact it looks like it's just been changed. I'll look at it again though, just to make sure it hasn't changed.

Is a coolant pressure tester something I can pick up cheap or will the auto parts store have one to loan?
 
+1

Also make sure the fan is kicking on, should increase speed with AC on

If it was staying cool when up to speed, then getting hot during idle, I'd definitely look at your fan operation. Maybe not so much in Minnesota, but in Florida that's been a problem when my fan motors burnt out. Probably the excellent shop that replaced a radiator without burping it properly didn't even check out the fans, just replaced it with a "yup, its the radiator. That'll be $400. If it doens't work, you can sell the car".
 
The fan kicks on at the right time. I'm pretty sure the fans are OK. I know I put the thermostat in the way the old one was in there and it looked right to me. I have a shop manual and when I did my other VIII I checked for sure. This one I let my memory decide the position. Maybe that was a mistake.:rolleyes:

The thermostat that was in there looked new. The last place could have done it backwards and I repeated their mistake. With the housing out of the car it wouldn't be too hard to do it wrong.
 
I went and looked and the reason the overflow tube is not hooked up to the radiator is because the tit is broken off the radiator and the hole is epoxied shut. Then they stuck a bolt in the end of the overflow tube. And this is supposed to be a new radiator?? The previous owner gave me all her receipts. There is clearly a recent receipt for a new radiator including installation. It cost her over $400.

I'm not convinced it is even a new radiator. It could be the old one and they just Mickey Moused a repair to the spot it was leaking. Here's the evidence:

1) The epoxied hole. Whether the radiator is new or old that shouldn't be there

2) When we drained the cooling system it was full of stop leak. If they installed a radiator they would have flushed the system wouldn't they? There was A LOT of stop leak.

3) The car had a misfire and flashing CEL when the lady drove the car after picking it up from the radiator install. How the hell did they bleed the system without noticing a misfire? If they did bleed it while misfiring then they are negligent for running the car with a misfire. If they say it was not misfiring in their shop then why did it so quickly develop a misfire? Did it overheat due to their screwed up repair?

4) The first time I checked the coolant level it was 1 1/2 gallons low. The car has barely been driven since the radiator install. Just right back to their shop and then maybe a mile to her home.

Now, if I am going to fix the car it needs a new radiator. What a joke. :mad:
 
This is looking bad. :(

The stop leak is bad enough, but I bet the radiator was never changed.

Who knows what else. :rolleyes:
 
Sounds like you know what your next step is, call up Tousley Ford and see if they have any in stock. Luckly the radiator can be done quickly.
 
Replace that radiator, it can't burp with bubbles trapped in the radiator. :(

You can a new one for around $100-130, or spend some cash and get an all aluminum one, in either case it can be done in 15-20 mins
 
Well, I may never find out exactly what happened to the radiator. Here's what I basically know:
1) Owner overheats engine
2) Shop replaces radiator
3) Car almost immediately develops misfire
4) Car returned to shop; shop says bad head gasket
5) CUSTOMER DECIDES AGAINST HEAD GASKET AND REQUESTS THAT OLD RADIATOR BE PUT BACK IN.

So I think I am dealing with the original radiator and I have no idea who actually plugged the overflow hole. Whatever. I could likely fix the plugged hole, but with the stop leak and all, I will just replace the radiator.
 
I doubt any adhesive used on the radiator would hold for an extended time. 2 things that adhesives dont like are heat, and pressure.. radiators provide both.

You said that it no longer has a misfire.. is this still true?
 
I doubt any adhesive used on the radiator would hold for an extended time. 2 things that adhesives dont like are heat, and pressure.. radiators provide both.

You said that it no longer has a misfire.. is this still true?


It no longer has an obvious misfire and the CEL is no longer flashing. It does still have a steady CEL though. I haven't rechecked the codes yet. It also has lifter noise from, I think, two different places. The idle is quite smooth actually.

One of the things I will do if it turns out not to have a head gasket failure is to change the plug wires and plugs. They were recently both changed and I have the receipt from the previous owner. I'm not happy with the brands they chose. Plus, the one plug wire boot was stuck or melted to the plug and we had to destroy it to get it loose. That was where the misfire was.
 
What a mess.
Good luck with it.

How many miles are on this 96?
Hows the rust??

I hate this state.....
 
Does the lifter noise come from the top from under the VCs or the front of the block?

Did any of the DAs get LSC light housing's?
 
I just got a new radiator for my 95 from PB for $113 Made in Canada not china. Go on line and get PB coupon $10--$25 off. :D
 
At this point, I think someone with more knowledge of the car needs to assess the damage before he starts installing parts on a possible parts car
 

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