CarsForSale also lists the mileage at 100k, so I bought a ticking time bomb. The Ed Bolian but broke automotive masochist in me who saw the carfax and the religious service history has clearly failed this game of Russian roulette
New LS owner here, with long cranking issues.
- Thread starter RyLS
- Start date
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Then there's hope... but you are probably looking at a cooling system rebuild. THAT... is not going to be cheap.
hit me, at this point I don't think it could cause anymore grief
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
In your case... it's the age of parts. This time... of the cooling system.
rough price estimate for best case scenario and nightmare scenario of warped heads?
ajv8
Well-Known LVC Member
they take overheating like a champ don’t get too worried. if you let it overheat to shut down point (300+) it might drop a valve seat or 32
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
I don't think you got it hot enough to warp the heads. IF you shut it down soon enough... like AJ said... the valves (and seats) should be ok.
The heads could be checked and machined a few thousandths to square them up (they almost always "twist" slightly... most heads do... even steel ones). EDITED: meant cast iron... not steel.
Plus the machine shop can pull a vaccum on the valves to make sure they are still ( how well) sealing.
Machine heads and a valve job (if needed) about $500-800. Just machining the heads... about $300. This is not Fla prices.
Just the OEM cooling system parts from a Ford dealer (do NOT use aftermarket parts) will run you $1k (including water pump)... and that doesn't include the radiator, aux pump, or DCCV. Add another $600+ for those last 3 parts.
Then... add in the shop hourly labor rate and time they will put into it (disassembly and reassembly) I'd guess another $1k for R&R heads... and cooling system rebuild.
A lot of this last part depends on the shop's labor rate.
So high side estimate... $3700... but that includes $1500 worth of all new cooling system parts... and the remaining $1700 is for labor and machining.
At that point... the cooling system will last 6-7 years (and 100k+ miles) before you have to worry about that again.
However... during that 6-7 years... you will have other issues that will pop up over time... just like any other car.
The heads could be checked and machined a few thousandths to square them up (they almost always "twist" slightly... most heads do... even steel ones). EDITED: meant cast iron... not steel.
Plus the machine shop can pull a vaccum on the valves to make sure they are still ( how well) sealing.
Machine heads and a valve job (if needed) about $500-800. Just machining the heads... about $300. This is not Fla prices.
Just the OEM cooling system parts from a Ford dealer (do NOT use aftermarket parts) will run you $1k (including water pump)... and that doesn't include the radiator, aux pump, or DCCV. Add another $600+ for those last 3 parts.
Then... add in the shop hourly labor rate and time they will put into it (disassembly and reassembly) I'd guess another $1k for R&R heads... and cooling system rebuild.
A lot of this last part depends on the shop's labor rate.
So high side estimate... $3700... but that includes $1500 worth of all new cooling system parts... and the remaining $1700 is for labor and machining.
At that point... the cooling system will last 6-7 years (and 100k+ miles) before you have to worry about that again.
However... during that 6-7 years... you will have other issues that will pop up over time... just like any other car.
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04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
And no... I didn't base the estimate on dealer labor rates.
Even I'm not dumb enough to go to a dealer when it's major servicing that needs to be done.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
From the web...
"Most repair shops charge between $80 to $100 auto repair labor rate per hour while dealerships charge you between $95 to $125 per hour.May 3, 2021"
"Most repair shops charge between $80 to $100 auto repair labor rate per hour while dealerships charge you between $95 to $125 per hour.May 3, 2021"
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
The shop you are dealing with, (if any good and honest) should be using books published by Mitchell.
They are called Mitchell's Manuals. They give non dealership estimated repair times for all procedures... factoring in that the mechanic may have to deal with problems encountered when working on a used vehicle.
So while the dealership may only pay the mechanic 1 hour to do a job at $35/hr..
(and the dealership will charge $125/hr)... the Mitchell's book will give the non dealer mechanic 1.5 hours to do the job at $20/hr (and the independent shop will charge $80/hr)
They are called Mitchell's Manuals. They give non dealership estimated repair times for all procedures... factoring in that the mechanic may have to deal with problems encountered when working on a used vehicle.
So while the dealership may only pay the mechanic 1 hour to do a job at $35/hr..
(and the dealership will charge $125/hr)... the Mitchell's book will give the non dealer mechanic 1.5 hours to do the job at $20/hr (and the independent shop will charge $80/hr)
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Up until a decade or so ago... I had free online access to Mitchell... through a repair shop "chain" in the area. That shop chain closed up back then... so I lost my access. The annual subscription for an average person to subscribe to Mitchell... was quite pricey.
Wow, I never even knew all of that. I guess that's how some shop owners make drive brand new Escalades without ever having to lift a finger...just providing the place, and the tools, and finding the right, knowledgeable people.
And how the owner of the last shop I used to take my cars to drove a N54 335i without going bankrupt
And how the owner of the last shop I used to take my cars to drove a N54 335i without going bankrupt
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
This is what they looked like "back in the day" They weren't cheap... and were about the size of a Webster's Dictionary.
MITCHELL MANUALS FOR AUTOMOTIVE PROFESSIONALS 79-82 EMISSION CONTROL SERVICE | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MITCHELL MANUALS FOR AUTOMOTIVE PROFESSIONALS 79-82 EMISSION CONTROL SERVICE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
I feel like I'm looking at the Bible of car repairsThis is what they looked like "back in the day" They weren't cheap... and were about the size of a Webster's Dictionary.
MITCHELL MANUALS FOR AUTOMOTIVE PROFESSIONALS 79-82 EMISSION CONTROL SERVICE | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MITCHELL MANUALS FOR AUTOMOTIVE PROFESSIONALS 79-82 EMISSION CONTROL SERVICE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!www.ebay.com
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
They were handy at times... especially if you wanted to get paid for your time.
Do a job that pays 1.5 hours... in 1 hour... you got paid 1.5 hours. So a tech could get paid 10 hours (or more) in an 8 hour day.
Do a job that pays 1.5 hours... in 1 hour... you got paid 1.5 hours. So a tech could get paid 10 hours (or more) in an 8 hour day.
I see it as the ultimate efficiency rewarding model. The more knowledgeable a tech is and the more experience they have, the more they get rewarded.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Yeah... but if something goes wrong... one could lose their a$$ on a job too.
This is how you can tell that she's been in the shop recently, cause she always comes out looking filthy. My next LS is gonna be black for sure .
Anyways, I wanna know if I'm getting raped by my mechanic shop or if they're giving me a fair deal. Considering Florida labor rates, would $400 for a new thermostat make sense? (Thank fuck it wasn't the actuator/solenoid, that would've blown).
Anyways, I wanna know if I'm getting raped by my mechanic shop or if they're giving me a fair deal. Considering Florida labor rates, would $400 for a new thermostat make sense? (Thank fuck it wasn't the actuator/solenoid, that would've blown).
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
First... I don't know what Fla labor rates are.
Second... it depends on what all they are replacing. If just a thermostat... $400 is a rip off. If they are replacing the thermostat and housing... still pricey. Especially if they are not using OEM parts.
Been said over and over (and over and over) on this forum that aftermarket parts don't hold up or work very well on the LS.
Aftermarket parts are not designed to factory specs. You will still have overheating problems... UNLESS you specifically say you want OEM Ford parts.
Third... I'm not impressed with the greasy/smudgy hand prints on the fender. Very unprofessional. They could have at least wiped the fender off... or spot washed it.
Second... it depends on what all they are replacing. If just a thermostat... $400 is a rip off. If they are replacing the thermostat and housing... still pricey. Especially if they are not using OEM parts.
Been said over and over (and over and over) on this forum that aftermarket parts don't hold up or work very well on the LS.
Aftermarket parts are not designed to factory specs. You will still have overheating problems... UNLESS you specifically say you want OEM Ford parts.
Third... I'm not impressed with the greasy/smudgy hand prints on the fender. Very unprofessional. They could have at least wiped the fender off... or spot washed it.
Well, time to find a new shop.....I wasn't impressed with the state they left the car in either.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Seriously guy... you want to use/have dealer parts installed.
You will have nothing but problems with aftermsrket cooling system parts.
Many of the cooling system threads on this forum... are because a member put aftermarket parts on their LS... and had running warm/overheating issues.
You will have nothing but problems with aftermsrket cooling system parts.
Many of the cooling system threads on this forum... are because a member put aftermarket parts on their LS... and had running warm/overheating issues.
