latest/greatest intake

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kitbuf

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Ok, after lots of searching on here I'm confused. Can someone tell me what is the latest/greatest and most cost efficient aftermarket filter setup for a 01 ls.:confused:
 
You have the polished aluminum and stainless intake tube from LS Koncepts. Horsepower gain are the same. For the Filter setup you have KKM and K&N setups, difference in horsepower gain is minimal. There are a couple of other filters, but these two add the most. www.lskoncepts.com
 
Not sure if there is a K&N setup for 00-02 LS's, so the only options are KKM or custom.
 
KD00LS said:
Not sure if there is a K&N setup for 00-02 LS's, so the only options are KKM or custom.
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There is not much to the KKM AT ALL. All you need is a billet aluminum MAFS filter adapter and a filter (brand of your choice), 4 small bolts and a MAFS gasket and you have all the parts KKM will give you. By scraping all the parts together yourself you can save around $25-$50 depending on which brand of filter you go with. It is a really simple process. By the way do not get any of that Auto Zone plastic MAFS adapter crap as it is just cheap garbage.

What KKM does not give people, which they badly need, is the silicone coupler and two clamps that need to connect the LSK intake tube with the back of the MAF sensor. If the MAF falls off then unmetered air will enter the intake system which will cause a severe lean condition.
 
ILLS said:
There is not much to the KKM AT ALL. All you need is a billet aluminum MAFS filter adapter and a filter (brand of your choice), 4 small bolts and a MAFS gasket and you have all the parts KKM will give you. By scraping all the parts together yourself you can save around $25-$50 depending on which brand of filter you go with. It is a really simple process. By the way do not get any of that Auto Zone plastic MAFS adapter crap as it is just cheap garbage.

What KKM does not give people, which they badly need, is the silicone coupler and two clamps that need to connect the LSK intake tube with the back of the MAF sensor. If the MAF falls off then unmetered air will enter the intake system which will cause a severe lean condition.
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Not necessarily. However, if it is a huge issue those couplers can be purchased at any automotive store for around $7. We even have them from Spectre Performance.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
Not necessarily. However, if it is a huge issue those couplers can be purchased at any automotive store for around $7. We even have them from Spectre Performance.
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Ken, I personally tune allot of vehicles with SCT software and own a performance shop, I know what I am talking about. Trust me when I say that I shriek when I see something like that without a connector there. It is literally held on by friction tape??? Come on! That is just not enough. A silicone (or rubber) connector and 2 hose clamps should come standard with those tubes. Either that or a disclaimer stating that there is need for a coupler.
 
ILLS said:
Ken, I personally tune allot of vehicles with SCT software and own a performance shop, I know what I am talking about. Trust me when I say that I shriek when I see something like that without a connector there. It is literally held on by friction tape??? Come on! That is just not enough. A silicone (or rubber) connector and 2 hose clamps should come standard with those tubes. Either that or a disclaimer stating that there is need for a coupler.
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First of all, there is a clamp already on the MAF itself when it is separated from the stock intake tube and the MAF clamp can be TIGHTENED to hold it on. I ran this setup on my LS for over 4 years with no problem. Had there been an issue we would have supplied a coupler for that end. Also, the aftermarket intake tubes we sell can NOT be used with the stock air box. With that being said, the KKM induction kit uses a support bracket to hold the intake filter kit and MAF in place. With the stock MAF clamp and KKM bracket there should NOT be any issue with the MAF slipping off.

We recommend that if a customer can not install it correctly with the provided installation instructions then they need to have it professionally installed.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
First of all, there is a clamp already on the MAF itself when it is separated from the stock intake tube and the MAF clamp can be TIGHTENED to hold it on. I ran this setup on my LS for over 4 years with no problem. Had there been an issue we would have supplied a coupler for that end. Also, the aftermarket intake tubes we sell can NOT be used with the stock air box. With that being said, the KKM induction kit uses a support bracket to hold the intake filter kit and MAF in place. With the stock MAF clamp and KKM bracket there should NOT be any issue with the MAF slipping off.

We recommend that if a customer can not install it correctly with the provided installation instructions then they need to have it professionally installed.
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So you are saying that the stock clamp will tighten the MAF itself onto the intake tube without a soft connector? First of all there is not a clamp on the MAF itself. There is a clamp on the stock intake tube. Now you could reuse that clamp but what exactly will it clamp down to? The rear end of the MAF housing itself? Last I checked hard plastic doesn't exactly shrink much when being clamped. I hope to god I misunderstood what you meant, but I do not think I did.

Just because something has happened to work for a period of time does not mean that it is the correct way to do things. Heck, I see people running 150 dryshots on their stock 99-04 Mustang GT's without blowing up yet but it still doesn't make it a smart idea to do so. "Well it hasn't blown up yet" just doesn't cut it.

I never said anything of a stock airbox. What I talk about is the way you reccomend to have the MAFS installed on your intake tube with the KKM (or other custom CAI) kit.

According to a few of my friends who own Gen 1 LS's they have thrown up a complaint about the MAFS slipping off of the LSK intake tube. They were told to use friction tape to help hold it on. That is not the correct way of doing things as it will continue to want to slide off even with the KKM bracket. The KKM bracket may also hold the MAFS in place but it is not a gasket and it is not a rubber or silicone connector and should not be used as replacement for something that gives a proper seal.

Ken none of this is a shot at you, or me trying to tread on your hard work. My reccomendation is based upon years of experience with modding vehicles, producing custom parts, and ensuring QA throughout the whole process. Just throw 2 hose clamps ($50 ea) and one rubber connector ($7) and jack the price up $8 and call it a day. Offering anything less than that is just putting out an incomplete kit. If you offer the clamps and connector to attach the LSK tube to the TB then you should do the same for attaching the other side of the tube to the rear of the MAFS. I will not even mention the PCV hookup issues that people have had. There have been people who have contacted you about this and even offered solutions free of charge but you still choose to overlook them. That may come off as negligent to some.

The problem is not that customers cannot install it correctly based upon the instructions; it is that there just is not enough correct hardware to ensure a complete PROPER installation.

Providing half a kit for your intake tube would be like me providing my customers with half an STS turbo kit. "Well sir you can have the turbine but I am not going to send you the compressor" just does not fly. ;)

This in NO WAY is meant at vendor bashing you Ken. I respect your company for what it is. Heck, I am a recent customer of yours after getting a LS dual gauge pod assembly from you the other week. I only say these things as a strong reccomendation from one performance business owner (and very knowledgeable performance mechanic and tuner) to another business owner.
 
The major flaw is the KKM is designed to be attached to the STOCK intake tube. The KKM mounts to the chassis as the stock air box does. That works as the STOCK intake tube has a flex pc in it. When using the Aluminum or S.S. intake tube with the KKM unit you loose the flex part therefore everytime you touch the throttle you are pulling the KKM right off the intake. I don't care if you use masking tape, friction tape (I originally found that to work better) or even clamps.

The proper fix is to...

A. Solid mount the motor. This will keep the motor from pulling the KKM off but not the greatest option. (Yes I'm joking)

B. Loose the supplied KKM bracket and mount the KKM unit to the motor.

The products were designed obviously seperate from each other. The KKM was design to go on the STOCK tube with the flex built in. And while work great on the Aluminum or S.S. tube...its got that flaw.

I consider myself more capable than most "professionals"

Make some brackets like these and be done for ever. I did and it works great and is what I would consider the right way.
 
The right way.

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152-5273_IMG.jpg
 
Also. A silicone connector would work well also but, without the bracket I believe it would bounce around alot will driving.
 
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC said:
Also. A silicone connector would work well also but, without the bracket I believe it would bounce around alot will driving.
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It won't. Mine is done that way and the connector holds it VERY tight and solid. There is zero bounce or movement happening with the MAFS & filter assembly with just a silicone or rubber connector and its accompanying hose clamps.
 
ILLS said:
It won't. Mine is done that way and the connector holds it VERY tight and solid. There is zero bounce or movement happening with the MAFS & filter assembly with just a silicone or rubber connector and its accompanying hose clamps.
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Cool. Either way the wrong way would be connecting it to the chassis without some means of flex.

Unless you never push your throttle down much....but even then its just a matter of time.
 
where the tube inserts into the MAF housing... looks like a perfect place for a clamp
 
ILLS said:
So you are saying that the stock clamp will tighten the MAF itself onto the intake tube without a soft connector? First of all there is not a clamp on the MAF itself. There is a clamp on the stock intake tube. Now you could reuse that clamp but what exactly will it clamp down to? The rear end of the MAF housing itself? Last I checked hard plastic doesn't exactly shrink much when being clamped. I hope to god I misunderstood what you meant, but I do not think I did.
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Yes that is exactly what I meant. It will clamp down snugly and NOT crack the MAF. Also, there is not enough room for a coupler because of where the IAT sensor is located. The IAT sensor wire is not long enough to go farther down the intake tube without making the wire longer. We don't want anyone cutting on the wires if at all possible.

ILLS said:
Just because something has happened to work for a period of time does not mean that it is the correct way to do things. Heck, I see people running 150 dryshots on their stock 99-04 Mustang GT's without blowing up yet but it still doesn't make it a smart idea to do so. "Well it hasn't blown up yet" just doesn't cut it.
Click to expand...
Good point but where practicality and cost meet are things to consider. I guess buying something that is aftermarket is always some risk of blowing your engine up but it is the user and not typically the item. I tell customers this all time. They ask if it will void my warranty. I tell them as long as you don't drag race your car and blow up your engine it won't. I mean common sense has got to be somewhere!

ILLS said:
I never said anything of a stock airbox. What I talk about is the way you reccomend to have the MAFS installed on your intake tube with the KKM (or other custom CAI) kit.

According to a few of my friends who own Gen 1 LS's they have thrown up a complaint about the MAFS slipping off of the LSK intake tube. They were told to use friction tape to help hold it on. That is not the correct way of doing things as it will continue to want to slide off even with the KKM bracket. The KKM bracket may also hold the MAFS in place but it is not a gasket and it is not a rubber or silicone connector and should not be used as replacement for something that gives a proper seal.

Ken none of this is a shot at you, or me trying to tread on your hard work. My reccomendation is based upon years of experience with modding vehicles, producing custom parts, and ensuring QA throughout the whole process. Just throw 2 hose clamps ($50 ea) and one rubber connector ($7) and jack the price up $8 and call it a day. Offering anything less than that is just putting out an incomplete kit. If you offer the clamps and connector to attach the LSK tube to the TB then you should do the same for attaching the other side of the tube to the rear of the MAFS. I will not even mention the PCV hookup issues that people have had. There have been people who have contacted you about this and even offered solutions free of charge but you still choose to overlook them. That may come off as negligent to some.
Click to expand...

Well of course it is a shot at my company and me! Why even make a statement like that. However, we have said many times that if there is an issue we want to know about it. NO ONE has stood up and said "I'll make those units for the Lincoln LS community". However, we took the initiative to start. We are definitely not a K&N type of business where we have a $10 million dollar R&D budget for this. It is prototyping at its finest and I'd say 99% of the issues have been worked out for future revisions. We have address this issue on the aluminum tubes. We have NOT had any issues on the stainless tubes. Simply because the guy that makes the stainless tubes made it right the first time. Also, he is about 2 miles from my business so I can make sure it is right. Now ASMI bought a stainless tube from me and copied it to make the aluminum tube without my permission. Then they come back saying they will sell them back to me. So, with that being said they made the product wrong the first time. We have been through about four revisions on the tubes and have offered solutions to customers that bought the previous versions. I'd venture to guess the people you have talked with that have bought the Aluminum tubes bought them some time ago.

ILLS said:
The problem is not that customers cannot install it correctly based upon the instructions; it is that there just is not enough correct hardware to ensure a complete PROPER installation.

Providing half a kit for your intake tube would be like me providing my customers with half an STS turbo kit. "Well sir you can have the turbine but I am not going to send you the compressor" just does not fly. ;)

This in NO WAY is meant at vendor bashing you Ken. I respect your company for what it is. Heck, I am a recent customer of yours after getting a LS dual gauge pod assembly from you the other week. I only say these things as a strong reccomendation from one performance business owner (and very knowledgeable performance mechanic and tuner) to another business owner.
Click to expand...
We do appreciate any feedback from our customers. However, we have not had very many people state that there was a problem. If they did we worked through the issue to make sure they received what they needed. So, in retrospect if we don't know there is an issue we can not fix it. Your comments and recommendations are welcomed.
 
GrayGhost1 said:
Yes that is exactly what I meant. It will clamp down snugly and NOT crack the MAF. Also, there is not enough room for a coupler because of where the IAT sensor is located. The IAT sensor wire is not long enough to go farther down the intake tube without making the wire longer. We don't want anyone cutting on the wires if at all possible.


Ken that is HARD ABS plastic, it is neither designed nor meant to be clamped. Plain and simply it is not the proper way to secure a MAFS to an intake tube, PERIOD. There is no way around that. Also the IATS will not be in the way if you pull the rear of the MAFS away from the tube by about another 1/2". That will give plenty enough bearing surface for the coupler and clamp to compress down to on the tube side and also not have you run into any issues with the filter hitting the drivers side compartment bulkhead either. No relocation of the IATS will need to take place so no worries of this.


Good point but where practicality and cost meet are things to consider. I guess buying something that is aftermarket is always some risk of blowing your engine up but it is the user and not typically the item. I tell customers this all time. They ask if it will void my warranty. I tell them as long as you don't drag race your car and blow up your engine it won't. I mean common sense has got to be somewhere!

You are exactly right common sense should prevail. In this case with the way that MAFS is connected to your intake tube it is not. I challenge you to take pictures of the way you reccomend the MAFS connect to the intake tube onto a Mustang forum with a memberbase whom are on average much more knowledgeable with this stuff than the typical member you will find here. I have an idea that your feelings would get hurt real quick by their feedback. Ken, I am telling you that this is the wrong way of doing thing. How many times do I need to tell you this before you pay attention??? An extra $8.00 in cost will not hurt you whatsoever. After all, you more or less have the market cornered on these intake tubes for the Gen 1 LS anyways. If this was just you doing this intake to just your car then I would say something and if you didn't like what I said I would move on. However, being that you are selling these to other people I feel an obligation as an experienced performance mechanic and tuner to tell you that your intake tube system is incomplete and something needs to be done about it.



Well of course it is a shot at my company and me! Why even make a statement like that. However, we have said many times that if there is an issue we want to know about it. NO ONE has stood up and said "I'll make those units for the Lincoln LS community". However, we took the initiative to start. We are definitely not a K&N type of business where we have a $10 million dollar R&D budget for this. It is prototyping at its finest and I'd say 99% of the issues have been worked out for future revisions. We have address this issue on the aluminum tubes. We have NOT had any issues on the stainless tubes. Simply because the guy that makes the stainless tubes made it right the first time. Also, he is about 2 miles from my business so I can make sure it is right. Now ASMI bought a stainless tube from me and copied it to make the aluminum tube without my permission. Then they come back saying they will sell them back to me. So, with that being said they made the product wrong the first time. We have been through about four revisions on the tubes and have offered solutions to customers that bought the previous versions. I'd venture to guess the people you have talked with that have bought the Aluminum tubes bought them some time ago.


Ken, if you want to make this personal then that is your perogative. You can either sit there and take offense to what I say or take it on board and make your product better because of it. The choice is yours. The problem I see with your tubes goes nothing much further than the way the MAFS connects to the intake tube itself. It is not a secure connection and WILL leak unmetered air into the system. That WILL cause a lean condition to happen. Fix the potential for that leak to occur by providing the proper hardware to give a proper seal and I will not say a thing further.


We do appreciate any feedback from our customers. However, we have not had very many people state that there was a problem. If they did we worked through the issue to make sure they received what they needed. So, in retrospect if we don't know there is an issue we can not fix it. Your comments and recommendations are welcomed.
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Do you really need someone to come to you with a blown engine before you do something to better your product? Be proactive and fix this issue before it causes you problems. I am VERY surprised no one has had issues with this yet. Or maybe they had issues but did not know where they stemmed from. I am telling you now that there is a big flaw in your intake tube kit and I highly suggest that you fix it. All it can do is make your product better.

What I reccomend is not a frivolous cost, it is something that is neccessary for proper operation, through good seal, of that MAFS with the vehicle.
 
I have had no problems. I highly doubt anyone will get a "blown engine" from some air bypassing the MAF. Worst that will happen is it may run a little rough. Besides, I believe it was Ford that put a hose clamp there to begin with. I understand the post about not being able to mount the bracket because the engine shifts when you step on it. I dont have this problem, not really a lead foot. Never really have seen much movement from the engine when revving either though. In this forum we always see everyones problems, and I cannot recall ever seeing a post about having a problem with the intake tube, other than one of the hoses are hard to hook up.
 
decibels5 said:
I have had no problems. I highly doubt anyone will get a "blown engine" from some air bypassing the MAF. Worst that will happen is it may run a little rough. Besides, I believe it was Ford that put a hose clamp there to begin with. I understand the post about not being able to mount the bracket because the engine shifts when you step on it. I dont have this problem, not really a lead foot. Never really have seen much movement from the engine when revving either though. In this forum we always see everyones problems, and I cannot recall ever seeing a post about having a problem with the intake tube, other than one of the hoses are hard to hook up.
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Air bypassing the MAFS WILL cause problems. The MAFS is the only sensor telling the vehicle how much air is coming into the engine. If this reading is inaccurate then your fueling will be off which will throw your air/fuel ratio off which will cause the car to either run like dogcrap or worse. The present way the MAFS is attached to the intake tube has very big potential to let this happen with its current configuration.

Also Ford did put a hoseclamp in that area, but it was to connect the softer stock into tube to the MAFS; not the other way around. The stock intake tube has give so it could compress to fit snugly onto the rear of the MAFS. The MAFS housing itself does not have any give, due to it being hard ABS plastic. So when trying to be clamped onto something else it will not secure in any real way. Bottom line is that other things can be clamped onto the MAFS but not vice versa.
 
I see that the clamp goes around the part that you are saying does not compress. So If this does not work explain to me why ford put it there. Not saying it is right, but that is where it is even with the stock tube. actually I still have my stock tube and they are both rather hard abs plastic.intake pic.jpg

intake pic.jpg
 
From looking at my closeups and my stock tube in my hand, only thing different mounting wise is my intake tube is now hard metal, not hard plastic.
 
ILLS said:
Do you really need someone to come to you with a blown engine before you do something to better your product? Be proactive and fix this issue before it causes you problems. I am VERY surprised no one has had issues with this yet. Or maybe they had issues but did not know where they stemmed from. I am telling you now that there is a big flaw in your intake tube kit and I highly suggest that you fix it. All it can do is make your product better.

What I reccomend is not a frivolous cost, it is something that is neccessary for proper operation, through good seal, of that MAFS with the vehicle.
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We will look into the issue you have raised but someone having a blown engine will not be caused by the intake tube OR the KKM kit. If you have any other issues with me about this item I suggest you email me directly. We have not had issues with this intake setup as you have seen from other people that have it on this website. Also, contrary to what you think we have not "cornered" the market on these units. KKM makes the intake kits and ASMI makes the intake tubes. Both can be purchased from them individually but we sell them at the same price.

Considering the original topic has gone off course I'm sure the original poster has got more information that they have deserved.
 
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