I need some more help

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Abbens

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As per my last thread my trouble started with my serpetine belt coming off while I was driving. So today I took it to the mechanic and I needed a new belt and a new water pump. The cap that goes on the front of the water pump was loose I thought if I get a new cap it would be all ok. It wasn't so when they changed the water pump and put on a new belt I thought all was ok. I started it up turns on fine but then I have a oil leak. It was the oil filter pan gasket which I knew needed to be fixed so it finally went. Now here is where the trouble comes in, I drive home I am almost home the temp gauge goes up to O of the normal level. Now usually it never goes that high which I read happens on a gen 1 mark 8. Then all of a sudden it goes to H I know I am screwed. I barley make it home park turn off the car. I go back to the car 30min later to see if the fan is running I turn the car on then it just dies. I cant believe it. So what could it be that makes the car not even stay on. I have new cps sensor and cam sensors. Sorry for the long post just wanted to get to the details.

Cliff notes cause its so long:

Put on new sepertine belt and water pump. car still over heats and not it will not start.
 
Did the mechanic properly burp the system?
 
if it got that hot maybe you popped a head gasket and filled the cylinders with coolant? you say it wont start, will it crank over but just night fire up, or when you turn the key is it just a clank sound and the motor doesnt spin over at all? did you run the engine completely out of oil?
 
jamie97lsc said:
if it got that hot maybe you popped a head gasket and filled the cylinders with coolant? you say it wont start, will it crank over but just night fire up, or when you turn the key is it just a clank sound and the motor doesnt spin over at all? did you run the engine completely out of oil?
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Well when they changed the water pump they didn't drain the coolant. It was low in bottle but I do know that means there is always some in the block. Once they fixed that they added coolant to the correct level. Then when they changed the oil filter gasket. He checked the oil once I was done it was empty on the dipstick. But I needed an oil change anyway. So he put in 20-50 3 quarts and I drove home. Then I had the check engine temp problem. Once I turned the car off I come back 30 minutes later and it starts then just dies. It turned off just like it would if you pull the MAF sensor.
 
While 3 quarts of 20w-50 won't make it overheat, it does point to a mechanic who doesn't know what he's doing...126,000 is not a lot of miles on a properly maintainee DOHC 4.6, and the oil fill cap specifically says '5w-30'. Machined tolerances are very tight on these engines, and 20w-50, especially conventional oil, will not properly 'slip' into the tight spaces to properly lubricate moving parts.
If he did not fill the engine with coolant at the crossover tube, it has air in it and you may have overheated it to the point that you have a head gasket issue now. Hope that is wrong, but that is what it sounds like from your description.
I'd start this morning by removing the crossover tube and filling to the top with coolant, then start it and continue observing it there until the thermostat opens, filling there so that it is as full as you can get it. Cap it and drive it gently, watching the temp gauge. If all is well, make a mental note not go back there ever again.
Get your oil changed ASAP and refill with 5W-30 or 5W-20 full synthetic and a good anti-drainback oil filter. If it overheats, or runs badly, take (or have it towed) back there and tell him that it is worse than before he got it-this all started because you couldn't get a belt on, right? It might have gotten real expensive, and you might have become the poster child for what not to do with regards to Mark ownership. Mark owners have to be very careful about a few things, not the least of which is who wrenches on it if they don't do it themselves. Overheating it is another thing that has to be avoided-an all aluminum engine will not tolerate overheating without causing major and expensive problems-if you observe high readings after having a repair done, pushing it just to get it home is what puts these things in the boneyards. It's much cheaper to get it towed to a garage that knows what they are doing if you can't fix it yourself. How can you tell if the garage you have it in knows what they are doing? You could go on here and ask, there are so many active members here that chances are good someone near you could recommend a good shop for repairs local to you.
 
Abbens said:
Well when they changed the water pump they didn't drain the coolant. It was low in bottle but I do know that means there is always some in the block. Once they fixed that they added coolant to the correct level. Then when they changed the oil filter gasket. He checked the oil once I was done it was empty on the dipstick. But I needed an oil change anyway. So he put in 20-50 3 quarts and I drove home. Then I had the check engine temp problem. Once I turned the car off I come back 30 minutes later and it starts then just dies. It turned off just like it would if you pull the MAF sensor.
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You also said something here that makes no sense-they changed out the water pump, without draining the antifreeze, filled it 'to the proper level', then did the oil filter gasket-that means they lost coolant, since oil and coolant run through the adapter. If this is correct, and they didn't add coolant again, it had to be low when you drove it out of there. Even if the did again fill it, it is proof that they have no idea what they are doing since you'd do the water pump and adapter gasket before refilling the engine with coolant. Either way, if sounds like there is no way they properly filled the engine with coolant, and you may have driven it to the point of causing major damage by overheating it. Sucks, but that's how it sounds right now.
 
mikemark8 said:
You also said something here that makes no sense-they changed out the water pump, without draining the antifreeze, filled it 'to the proper level', then did the oil filter gasket-that means they lost coolant, since oil and coolant run through the adapter. If this is correct, and they didn't add coolant again, it had to be low when you drove it out of there. Even if the did again fill it, it is proof that they have no idea what they are doing since you'd do the water pump and adapter gasket before refilling the engine with coolant. Either way, if sounds like there is no way they properly filled the engine with coolant, and you may have driven it to the point of causing major damage by overheating it. Sucks, but that's how it sounds right now.
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Yes you are correct. They were going to drain the coolant they did put a pan under the car. But once the water pump was put back on they refilled the coolant through the reservoir bottle. Then when they did the oil filter gasket anti freeze did come out with oil. When that was finished I restarted the car he opened the coolant bottle he saw there was no bubbles and said it was ok. I am going to add some coolant through the tube right now to see if there is any changes. But what would make the car not run is my main issue?
 
Abbens said:
Yes you are correct. They were going to drain the coolant they did put a pan under the car. But once the water pump was put back on they refilled the coolant through the reservoir bottle. Then when they did the oil filter gasket anti freeze did come out with oil. When that was finished I restarted the car he opened the coolant bottle he saw there was no bubbles and said it was ok. I am going to add some coolant through the tube right now to see if there is any changes. But what would make the car not run is my main issue?
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When he filled the reservoir bottle and then repaired the oil filter adapter gasket, it lowered the antifreeze level and introduced air into the engine-that is why it overheated. There is even a label under the hood that refers to what needs to be done for refilling the cooling system, which he did all wrong.
You are probably at fault for driving it when you knew it was running hot, as stated before overheating an aluminum engine is usually fatal at least to a head gasket. It's not like a 350 Chevy engine, doing a head gasket on a Mark is much more involved. Your 'mechanic', however, is an idiot-as soon as he saw antifreeze come out of the adapter, he should have realized he was not working on a slant 6. He will bear some responsibility for the damage you probably have but I seriously doubt he's capable of fixing it. It is a relatively simple procedure to 'burp' the cooling system provided you follow that procedure-he had no idea what he was doing, creating the possibility that it would be overheated, but you drove it with the needle in
the red.
It is amazing that this all started over not being able to thread a serpentine belt...isn't there anyone in the NYC area you know that is mechanically inclined? It really does take about 20 seconds to do, with no tools.
If your engine is toast, I'd point out the sticker under the hood which specifically refers to the need to read the manual for the proper refilling technique. I don't know how much success you'll have...really does suck, I never let anyone work on my cars, and I wouldn't drive a car if the temp needle was anywhere near the red-it is not worth it.
 
mikemark8 said:
When he filled the reservoir bottle and then repaired the oil filter adapter gasket, it lowered the antifreeze level and introduced air into the engine-that is why it overheated. There is even a label under the hood that refers to what needs to be done for refilling the cooling system, which he did all wrong.
You are probably at fault for driving it when you knew it was running hot, as stated before overheating an aluminum engine is usually fatal at least to a head gasket. It's not like a 350 Chevy engine, doing a head gasket on a Mark is much more involved. Your 'mechanic', however, is an idiot-as soon as he saw antifreeze come out of the adapter, he should have realized he was not working on a slant 6. He will bear some responsibility for the damage you probably have but I seriously doubt he's capable of fixing it. It is a relatively simple procedure to 'burp' the cooling system provided you follow that procedure-he had no idea what he was doing, creating the possibility that it would be overheated, but you drove it with the needle in
the red.
It is amazing that this all started over not being able to thread a serpentine belt...isn't there anyone in the NYC area you know that is mechanically inclined? It really does take about 20 seconds to do, with no tools.
If your engine is toast, I'd point out the sticker under the hood which specifically refers to the need to read the manual for the proper refilling technique. I don't know how much success you'll have...really does suck, I never let anyone work on my cars, and I wouldn't drive a car if the temp needle was anywhere near the red-it is not worth it.
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It seems my car is now working only at 60%. My tstat went and the mechanic thought that was the issue. So today he put a new one in. The new works cause now I get heat when yesterday I didn't. Also the car doesn't over heat when I am idling. But when I drove it home from his shop the car went up to N on the NORMAL gauge and I got the check temp on the info center. But it never went to the H or red line on the temp gauge. Also the car only overheated once and that was cause I drove with the broken sepretine belt all the way back from Manhattan which I shouldnt have done. But I wasnt thinking. The mechanic tried to bleed the system at the crossover cap but he wouldnt remove the cap he kept on saying if you remove the cap then air will get into the system. Tomorrow morning when the motor is cold I will remove the cap and add some more coolant and see if I can bleed it my self. I will search to see the proper way to bleed since I do not have an owner manual thanks everybody for the help. Sorry for the long post
 
Does anyone another way of opening the crossover cap. I tried with my 1/4 rachet but its not going in all the way. I have to bleed the system I think that will solve the high temp readings
 
Abbens said:
Does anyone another way of opening the crossover cap. I tried with my 1/4 rachet but its not going in all the way. I have to bleed the system I think that will solve the high temp readings
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you can get a large vise grip on the outside edge and try that, that is how I did mine when I got it because the previous owner boogered it up. I also know of people who weld a nut onto the top of the cap, and another guy who drilled a hole in the top, used a tap to thread it and installed a bolt to close it-he had someone hold a magnet near the drill bit while drilling so that metal shavings would not get into the coolant crossover tube. I'll stand by my previous assessment of your mechanic, the cooling system can only be properly filled by topping it off at the crossover tube, it is critical that there be no air in the cooling system.
 
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