Good article if you're concerned about Lincoln.

Upstairs Chris

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No it can't. The new Taurus is nice and the SHO package is quite the performer however you are constantly reminded by it's dynamics that is it indeed FWD. I've done some serious hooning in one and the AWD really only kicks in to save you, not for performance. In snow and rain it kicks in a lot and its a good snow performer but performance wise it is just not there. Front heavy twitchy FWD electric boosted steering and it just defaults to huge understeer at a pretty low level just like a FWD car.

In the Jalopnik article I posted probably a good 5 times or so someone brought up the LS in the comments and talked about how such a good car it was. Made me a proud dad lol.
 
you want to reinvent the Lincoln brand, here is your chance!

don't put too many doors on it, make sure the motor faces the right way, and surprise me with a new Eco Boost. lets say twin snails on a 5.0:steering
 
In order of importance:

RWD, 4 doors, manual transmission, 50/50 weight distribution, reasonably light weight, good fuel economy, 0-60 in around 6 seconds, decent rear seat room.

Don't care about engine configuration or number of cylinders. I've owned my LS for 10 years now and the rust is starting to kill it. I figure (hope) I have 2 to 3 years left before its done so I'm trying to plan for its replacement.

There is nothing on the market that works for me. Closest is ATS 2.0T from Cadillac (rear seat and trunk are a little small and price is a little high, if used values are where I think they will be this is the LS replacement).
I'd also consider the 6 cylinder 300 (currently too heavy, if they can lighten it by 200 - 300 lbs it would reach 60 in 6 seconds, currently 6.7 sec., gets 31 mpg highway, is reasonably priced but is auto only). If I was buying new its hard to pass on these at their current prices.

BMW 328 is a possibility but I do not trust their long term repair costs, plus I prefer American made.

A Lincoln 4 door based on the Mustang would work if they keep the weight down and it can have the 50/50 weight distribution.
 
Unrelated, but I saw 4 new mkzs today. Must be selling alright. Mostly old women.
 
Well. These are Lincolns we are talking about. Luxury, quality, safety, efficiency. "Performance?", not so much. When I went in to the dealer I turned down the eco boost v6 because I know it cuts mileage by one mpg and adds low profile tires which makes the overall ride worse in the name of cornering performance and certainly the non-turbo V6 with 300 hp is very good for doing the luxury car cruise and for touring the U.S.

Cornering performance? That might be the target for some new Lincoln coupe in the wings but not for me who buys a Lincoln for Luxury, Quality, Safety, Efficiency. If I waned cornering performance I'd buy some cold German vehicle.

My new MKT has paddle shifters that will never be used because why would one buy a Lincoln for fast shifting? Ah, no. I'm taking my wife out to a classy restaurant in this baby. Wrong target market for sports cars. Lincoln's are supposed to be "intelligent, independent and warm".

Not HOT. As in high performance. That's not the future for Lincoln. See Mustang COBRA.

As is said by the head of Lincoln's Ad Agency in that article the OP referenced:
More than a decade ago, LaNeve employed the music of Led Zeppelin in Cadillac's "Breakthrough" campaign. The approach at Lincoln may be different, he says.

"Cadillac is clearly trying to compete with the Germans. We're a vehicle for people who are independent minded, who are early adopters, who are very confident in their luxury purchase and who don't necessarily feel they have to follow the crowd," he says. "It's intelligent, independent and warm, versus a cold Germanic experience."


Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130603/OEM02/306039983#ixzz2VIT9iUoq
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, Lincoln owners don't follow the herd
 
A famous LVC member once put paddle shifters on his quick LS.
 
Ford in general lacks a real flagship vehicle. I think it would do a lot if Lincoln had a CTS model of car that included a CTS-V level of trim/performance. Been discussed many times but basically a coyote-powered LS-chassis with a good look. And they need to kill that whale-face look they have.

I also think they should produce the GT again but in varying trims just like the corvette. Everything from a 'basic' GT powered by a N/A coyote 5.0 all the way up to the factory-racer GT with a blown 6.2L and all the upgrades.

Oddly enough Ford does have a flagship truck with the Raptor. I am sure they don't sell a ton of those but I bet it generates a lot of F-150 sales indirectly. And that's the point of a flagship vehicle. To make people look at the brand and what else you have to offer.
 
Oddly enough Ford does have a flagship truck with the Raptor. I am sure they don't sell a ton of those but I bet it generates a lot of F-150 sales indirectly. And that's the point of a flagship vehicle. To make people look at the brand and what else you have to offer.

I see them everywhere. I see housewives driving them. It's kind of ridiculous.


I has also bothered me that Ford doesn't have a permanent competition to the Corvette. The GT was excellent, but it was a short run. I thought it was odd that a car that starts out life in the "2 door, V6" class stays pretty much the same and just gets shoehorned massive motors until it has 600+ HP and Ft/lbs and then competes with the corvette and all it's performance variants.

It is most certainly missing a flagship I mean Camaro=Mustang Corvette=GT which is no longer in production.

However with that being said, those platforms are expensive, take up huge amounts of R&D money, and then don't turn to much profit to begin with. If that is part of the sacrifices made in order to not have to take loans from uncle sam, that it is fine by me.
 
Well. These are Lincolns we are talking about. Luxury, quality, safety, efficiency. "Performance?", not so much. When I went in to the dealer I turned down the eco boost v6 because I know it cuts mileage by one mpg and adds low profile tires which makes the overall ride worse in the name of cornering performance and certainly the non-turbo V6 with 300 hp is very good for doing the luxury car cruise and for touring the U.S.

More power is ALWAYS a good thing. If you are concerned about fuel mileage here is something to think about.

Say you drive 15K per year and gas is 4 bucks a gallon. You will spend $2857 if you get 21 MPG. Now say it is 20 MPG with the ecoboost, you will spend $3000. That's $143 more for that year and that is if you actually drive 15K a year. When you plug the numbers in, there really is no excuse for not getting more power. And if you can actually afford a 40K car, what's $143 more per year.

Cornering performance? That might be the target for some new Lincoln coupe in the wings but not for me who buys a Lincoln for Luxury, Quality, Safety, Efficiency. If I waned cornering performance I'd buy some cold German vehicle.
Agreed.

My new MKT has paddle shifters that will never be used because why would one buy a Lincoln for fast shifting? Ah, no. I'm taking my wife out to a classy restaurant in this baby. Wrong target market for sports cars. Lincoln's are supposed to be "intelligent, independent and warm".

Paddle shifters is a good option, sometimes you get tired of just driving and that adds a little fun factor into the mixture.

Not HOT. As in high performance. That's not the future for Lincoln. See Mustang COBRA.

I for one would love a Cobra engine in a Lincoln coupe. Cobra is still not luxurious feeling from the inside and I really do hope the rumor about Lincoln using the mustang platform for its coupe is true.
 
3.7-liter V6
303 horsepower @ 6,500 rpm
278 lb-ft of torque @ 4,000 rpm
EPA city/highway fuel economy: 17/25 mpg

3.5-liter twin-turbocharged V6
365 horsepower @ 5,700 rpm
350 lb-ft of torque @ 1,500-5,250 rpm
EPA city/highway fuel economy: 16/23 mpg

Factor in the ecoboost uses recommended 91 octane vs low octane for the 303 hp base v6 and the savings are significant long term and even the first time you fill up! Then factor in the maintenance expense for turbo chargers is higher then factor in that you are stressing all the other components using the turbo then factor in the base model uses the same transmission which means it is overbuilt for that engine since it must also support the added hp for the turbo engine and so theoretically the transmission could outlast you and me!
 
3.7-liter V6
303 horsepower @ 6,500 rpm
278 lb-ft of torque @ 4,000 rpm
EPA city/highway fuel economy: 17/25 mpg

3.5-liter twin-turbocharged V6
365 horsepower @ 5,700 rpm
350 lb-ft of torque @ 1,500-5,250 rpm
EPA city/highway fuel economy: 16/23 mpg

Factor in the ecoboost uses recommended 91 octane vs low octane for the 303 hp base v6 and the savings are significant long term and even the first time you fill up! Then factor in the maintenance expense for turbo chargers is higher then factor in that you are stressing all the other components using the turbo then factor in the base model uses the same transmission which means it is overbuilt for that engine since it must also support the added hp for the turbo engine and so theoretically the transmission could outlast you and me!

It's more about torque than just HP numbers. Look at the Honda 2000. Over 200hp but virtually no torque (140ish, IIRC).
 
Factor in the ecoboost uses recommended 91 octane vs low octane for the 303 hp base v6 and the savings are significant long term and even the first time you fill up!

Do the math, it is not significant. At most, $400 more per year if you drive 15K.
 
Yeah the annual cost between 87 and 91 is trivial. Those differences in torque numbers, especially max torque is at 1500 rpm and stays there is a huge difference.
 
I suspect there is not best answer for all since some value handling (in an SUV) and V8 torque (in a family SUV) over luxury ride where some, well maybe just me, value the opposite: dependability, fuel economy, smooth and vibration less ride.

As far as cost, I suspect your number is correct if we drive the same but I also suspect you don't with an ecoboost engine and are heavy footed, I would be. So I suspect the number is more like the low miles per gallon figure for the ecoboost user and is more like 600-900 dollars more a year which works out to a large amount over the life of the MT. Then add the additional maintenance for the turbo model, anyone know that that is? Then figure if it breaks down how much that adds to your cost of ownership, then try and balance that cost with the need for more hp/torque when the 303 hp version is perfect for anything except drag racing.

Finally, add in the low profile tires that transmit the road feel of a Nissan maxima (and I know that gets old after fifty miles on the interstate) and I come to the conclusion the best model is the base model and it would be a killer if they would perhaps add the all wheel drive to it without having to buy the turbo engine and low profile wheels to qualify for it.
 
I suspect there is not best answer for all since some value handling (in an SUV) and V8 torque (in a family SUV) over luxury ride where some, well maybe just me, value the opposite: dependability, fuel economy, smooth and vibration less ride.

As far as cost, I suspect your number is correct if we drive the same but I also suspect you don't with an ecoboost engine and are heavy footed, I would be. So I suspect the number is more like the low miles per gallon figure for the ecoboost user and is more like 600-900 dollars more a year which works out to a large amount over the life of the MT. Then add the additional maintenance for the turbo model, anyone know that that is? Then figure if it breaks down how much that adds to your cost of ownership, then try and balance that cost with the need for more hp/torque when the 303 hp version is perfect for anything except drag racing.

Finally, add in the low profile tires that transmit the road feel of a Nissan maxima (and I know that gets old after fifty miles on the interstate) and I come to the conclusion the best model is the base model and it would be a killer if they would perhaps add the all wheel drive to it without having to buy the turbo engine and low profile wheels to qualify for it.

Or climbing a hill with a loaded vehicle on the family vacation.

$600-$900 in gas!!!! REALLY!!!! You totally misunderstand EPA numbers. The lower is city (no freeway) driving and the higher is highway (no city) driving. More power also means the engine works less to achieve the same "results".
 
Not at all.

Realistically the ecoboost tends to lead drivers into a much lower city average and overall average because if you have the extra off the line torque you will use it, otherwise why buy it? Whereas the non-boosted drivers will tend to drive, well, like a family suv would normally be driven, like you have an egg under the gas pedal, resulting in a higher than average city and at least equal the epa estimated highway gas mileage. My MKT is currently doing an AVERAGE mpg of 25.8 which means my either my highway and/or in-city mileage beats EPA estimates.
 
2013-06-04_13-03-34_877.jpg

Trust me. 303 hp pulls a loaded MKT over any hill very well! The torque is not lacking on the normally aspirated and larger V6 unless I intended to pull a horse trailer!

Besides, we value build quality and fine materials and are interested in fine ride over torque and horsepower and sports handling. I suspect when Lincoln made the LS it confused it's image quite a bit by taking a Jaguar frame and mating it to a nice looking small sedan with a Lincoln grill and in some cases dropping a small v8 into it and calling it a Lincoln while the baby boom gen scratched their heads and went searching for a Town Car or in most cases an S class or large Caddie, and so this is what I did this year, searched for a Town Car and I found a new one in the MKT so when approached with the idea of paddle shifters and low profile tires and turbo boosting a perfectly great luxury family car, I sort of go numb but realize Lincoln must sell to those who think paddle shifters and low profile tires and large wheels make a premium brand, kind of like a Cadillac Escalade with low profile tires, and there are plenty out there, and they ride like one would guess they would but are attractive to younger people with the money to spend on them.

Given we baby boomers (and I don't profess to speak for all of them or even most of them but I think I know my gen pretty well) like Lincolns the way I like them but that since we are not everybody anymore, I suspect luxury brands must tailor their offerings to both the baby boomer gens with soft tires and small wheels and fuel sipping and quiet engines and the less experienced buyer (younger) who has not yet learned that turbos and low profile large wheels on a Lincoln does not a luxury car, make, instead it makes a Chevy SS with bling.

2013-06-04_13-03-34_877.jpg
 
Not at all.

Realistically the ecoboost tends to lead drivers into a much lower city average and overall average because if you have the extra off the line torque you will use it, otherwise why buy it? Whereas the non-boosted drivers will tend to drive, well, like a family suv would normally be driven, like you have an egg under the gas pedal, resulting in a higher than average city and at least equal the epa estimated highway gas mileage. My MKT is currently doing an AVERAGE mpg of 25.8 which means my either my highway and/or in-city mileage beats EPA estimates.

I disagree unless the driver is 17 years old. I put a V6 into a car that originally had a four cylinder and was getting better gas mileage with an extra 75 or so horsepower and torque. I gained around 7 mpg.
 
View attachment 828459220

Trust me. 303 hp pulls a loaded MKT over any hill very well! The torque is not lacking on the normally aspirated and larger V6 unless I intended to pull a horse trailer!

Besides, we value build quality and fine materials and are interested in fine ride over torque and horsepower and sports handling. I suspect when Lincoln made the LS it confused it's image quite a bit by taking a Jaguar frame and mating it to a nice looking small sedan with a Lincoln grill and in some cases dropping a small v8 into it and calling it a Lincoln while the baby boom gen scratched their heads and went searching for a Town Car or in most cases an S class or large Caddie, and so this is what I did this year, searched for a Town Car and I found a new one in the MKT so when approached with the idea of paddle shifters and low profile tires and turbo boosting a perfectly great luxury family car, I sort of go numb but realize Lincoln must sell to those who think paddle shifters and low profile tires and large wheels make a premium brand, kind of like a Cadillac Escalade with low profile tires, and there are plenty out there, and they ride like one would guess they would but are attractive to younger people with the money to spend on them.

Given we baby boomers (and I don't profess to speak for all of them or even most of them but I think I know my gen pretty well) like Lincolns the way I like them but that since we are not everybody anymore, I suspect luxury brands must tailor their offerings to both the baby boomer gens with soft tires and small wheels and fuel sipping and quiet engines and the less experienced buyer (younger) who has not yet learned that turbos and low profile large wheels on a Lincoln does not a luxury car, make, instead it makes a Chevy SS with bling.

There is no such thing as a front wheel drive luxury performer. Doesn't exist. Can't exist. A front wheel drive, even a front wheel drive based all wheel drive, never lets you forget that it's a front wheel drive. Front wheel drive = appliance, and has no business being mentioned in a thread discussing performance vehicles except along the lines of "I save my real car for the weekend, and drive this unspecified front wheel drive thing to work and back because it's impossible to care about anything with a sideways engine." Period. If you want to talk about the future of Lincoln as a performance/luxury brand, welcome. If you want to talk about your washing machine, I'm sorry, I mean your MKS, I invite you to visit the MKS section of the board.
 
Given we baby boomers (and I don't profess to speak for all of them or even most of them but I think I know my gen pretty well) like Lincolns the way I like them but that since we are not everybody anymore, I suspect luxury brands must tailor their offerings to both the baby boomer gens with soft tires and small wheels and fuel sipping and quiet engines and the less experienced buyer (younger) who has not yet learned that turbos and low profile large wheels on a Lincoln does not a luxury car, make, instead it makes a Chevy SS with bling.

I have personally not driven the ecoboost or a regular MKT but since you seem like you did, was there really that much more engine noise on the ecoboost? Did the ride change significantly with the bigger tires?

And to me, Lincoln is luxurious with high tech equipment, V8 engine(but since MKT doesn't offer that, I would opt for the ecoboost), RWD, and smooth driving on the road that you can cruise for on long road trips. The LS crowd is all about handling over here but I could careless about that.
 

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