God is Only a Theory

If YOU can't do this Don, (live the Gospel instead of preaching it), then you really do need to go away. If you know so much,,, then share some of the heartaches of YOUR life story.

Maybe you will earn some credibility by doing that.
 
Quote Don post #450:

"The SEA is the sea of imperfect mankind. I thought you understood that,04. Figurative language here, just like the beast ascended out of the SEA.......from imperfect mankind".

I'm looking for where we discussed that before Don... since you want to throw another accusation my way. But in my search... I found something else you won't be proud of.


Quote Don Post 35:

"Of course,Jesus doesn't need a literal white horse to attack the nations................but he WILL annihilate all his Father's enemies at Armageddon.THAT is not a story......that has been substantiated all thru the Bible.The wicked will indeed perish soon,as this world deteriorates into gross immorality."

Funny Don how your tune has changed since then. In more recent posts,,, you have had the BRASS to say that the "unrighteous" will inherit the earth along with the righteous. Anything to win a convert to your way of believing eh??? More duplicitous thinking on your part,,, because according to the Bible,,, the "Fathers' enemies... the wicked... and the unrighteous are all the same.

Quote Don AGAIN post #301:

"and all faithful millions of the world will be. EVEN unrighteous will be resurrected and have to learn and accept obedience to Christ and his Father. MANY unrighteous,possibly billions, who have NEVER heard the Good News or had a chance at life will be resurrected."


Keep up the lies Don,,, in hopes of proselyting someone. God is keeping a record.


On top of post #35... in post #288 you also say this:

"The three horsemen pictured bad things to come.
BUT the fourth HORSEMAN is plainly Jesus by description,going forth to conquer and to COMPLETE his conquest"
So Don... you are saying tht Jesus comes to bring annihilation,,, or complete destruction... I.E. DEATH... when in FACT Jesus says he comes to bring life!!! Revelation names the 4th horseman as "DEATH".

Revelation 6:8 NWT

8 And I saw, and look! a pale horse, and the one seated on it had the name Death. And the Grave* was closely following him. And authority was given them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with food shortage+ and with deadly plague and by the wild beasts of the earth.+

compare to John 10:10 NWT

John 10:10 (JESUS SPEAKING)

10 The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy.+ I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance.

Don,,, your beliefs and statements here go beyond duplicitous. They are in contradiction with each other!!! AND THE BIBLE!!!

You busted yourself again Don!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So say whatever... in an attempt to convert someone... even if it's a contradiction.

Keep up the diharrea of the mouth Don. It gets you in more and more trouble on this thread... and makes you out to be the liar.

I keep telling you you should leave Don... but you won't listen.
 
Quote 04 saying I'm lying: I SAID...."and all faithful millions of the world will be. EVEN unrighteous (ACTS 24:15) will be resurrected and have to learn and accept obedience to Christ and his Father. MANY unrighteous,possibly billions, who have NEVER heard the Good News or had a chance at life will be resurrected."

Jesus is the rider of the WHITE HORSE and he will kill the wicked at Armageddon. That way he can bring PEACE for the righteous ones.Do you deny Christ will lead at Armageddon?
`You're certainly making NO sense whatsoever, and your comprehension is nil. When I said there will be a resurrection of the UNRIGHTEOUS along with the righteous, that is a Bible quote. I'm not making anything up,but you are trying to confuse the issues.
These BILLIONS of resurrected ones have to learn to come to perfection and if they resist the teachings of the truth,which they didn't ever get to hear when living before, they WILL NOT inherit the Earth.
God is restoring all things fairly. He knows Billions of mankind never got to know the true way of living, and also had Adamic sin to contend with.
God cares for man so much that He will restore a perfect Earth and regain what Adam THREW AWAY. Read Isaiah 11th chapter.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Okay 04,you say Jesus won't bring death? He brings life to righteous ones and those unrighteous resurrected (ACTS 24:15) that BECOME righteous.

Here's Rev. 19 verses 11-16 and notice that rider on the white horse AGAIN!

` 11 I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse.+ And the one seated on it is called Faithful+ and True,+ and he judges and carries on war in righteousness.+ 12 His eyes are a fiery flame,+ and on his head are many diadems.* He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is clothed with an outer garment stained* with blood, and he is called by the name The Word+ of God. 14 Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15 And out of his mouth protrudes a sharp, long sword+ with which to strike the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron.+ Moreover, he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.+ 16 On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.'

This IS no other than the glorified Christ Jesus, bringing destruction of the wicked at Armageddon.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Revelations is an allegory. As such, everything that comes out of it is simply a guess. I believe God gave us Revelations to give people like Don something to dither about.

KS
 
Don,,,

Maybe I need to ask your interpretation of the righteous and unrighteous... and what happens to each,,, as compared to the wicked.

If as you say in post #453:

"Jesus is the rider of the WHITE HORSE and he will kill the wicked at Armageddon. That way he can bring PEACE for the righteous ones."

Then in post #454 you say this:

"Okay 04,you say Jesus won't bring death? He brings life to righteous ones and those unrighteous resurrected (ACTS 24:15) that BECOME righteous."

So Jesus will resurrect the righteous and the unrighteous,,, but destroy the wicked??? So what... by YOUR definition,,, is the difference between the UNRIGHTEOUS and the WICKED????????????
 
Quote Cam:

"Revelations is an allegory. As such, everything that comes out of it is simply a guess."

Yes Cam,,, you are correct... but don't forget that within the allegory,,, are metaphorical and literal truths combined.

I miss LS4's contibutions and comments. Something tells me that he has "more" on his plate,,, that he is dealing with at the moment.
 
To anyone and everyone!!!! Please listen to this:

http://www.watervillecc.org/content.cfm?id=213&download_id=263

Cam and Don especially... or anyone else,,, give input to the above link.... after listening to it several times. Pick it apart. Find flaws or agreements!!!

However Don... please answer my other questions and proposals first... before you listen to the sermon I selected.
 
From this end I can offer support without knowing anything about what's going on. Just lift a little prayer that says, "You know what's going on, Lord. So please hold out your support."

And then stand ready to do whatever comes up that can be done to help.

KS
 
Good to see you online Cam!!!

Since I know you are seminary/scholarly taught... I would ask you to look into René Girard,,, and give me your thoughts. Something tells me that you may have already sutdied him.

:)
 
Let's add "mimetic theory" into the problem... especially when it comes to religion.

https://www.google.com/webhp#q=mimetic+theory

Again Cam... knowing you have been taught things I haven't, (not intentionally putting you on the spot),,, give me your thoughts on this subject. My intention is not to create conflict... but to understand. Tell me what you think of the pastor giving this sermon. Is he twisting GOD into his form... or is he giving an accurate portrayal of religion. and /or Faith???

I will ask the same question of you Don. Give me your thoughts. Of course... input is welcome from all.

What is the the accuracy... or inaccuracy,,, of what this pastorical message is saying?????????

The input depends on the VIEW of the individual.
 
Quote Cam:

"From this end I can offer support without knowing anything about what's going on. Just lift a little prayer that says, "You know what's going on, Lord. So please hold out your support."

And then stand ready to do whatever comes up that can be done to help."

end quote.

Not saying that anything is wrong Cam,,, but by personal contact on this forum... LS4 seems to be a bit touchy, (or less tolerant)... of ideas persented in both this thread... and "the other".

Prayers are always beneficial. Maybe I am off in my understanding of things. If I am... my apologies to those I was concerned about.
 
Quote 04: `So Jesus will resurrect the righteous and the unrighteous,,, but destroy the wicked??? So what... by YOUR definition,,, is the difference between the UNRIGHTEOUS and the WICKED????????????'' End quote.

Timeline is everything here...............Jesus destroys the wicked living on Earth at Armageddon, and AFTER that he resurrects the righteous and the unrighteous, NOT including the ones he has just executed righteously.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Agape doesn't depend on receptivity on the part of the loved one.

And trying to build a theology based on the significance of the misshapenness of a colon and the resultant purport for all mankind---well you see what I get from Don's belligerence.

KS
 
Don,

After some study,,, the resurrection of the "unrighteous" AND "the wicked"... is ALL people that die a physical death,,, being pulled up from the grave for judgement. Some go to everlasting joy in the prescence of God,,, while others go to everlasting torment.

Revelation 20:11-15 (NASB)

Judgment at the Throne of God

11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

However Don,,, there is a part that precedes this. (actually 2 parts)

Part 1:

Revelation 20:1-6 (NASB)

Satan Bound

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

So it seems Don.... that there are 2 resurrections,,, and the first one talked about in Revelation 20:1-6 is the first resurrection.

So Don... this seems to describe the 144,000 because they did not defile themselves with the mark of the beast, ( "undefiled by the world" ). It also says that the "second death" has NO power over them. Again... it sounds like the 144,000. Seems like you may have missed that bus Don.

Now let's look into the second part Don.

Revelation 20:7-10 (NASB):

Satan Freed, Doomed

7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So Don... when satan is released,,, satan gathers the "wicked" on the EARTH... to wage war against GOD,,, and surround the "righteous"... but satan and his legions are thrown into the lake of fire... ,,, ... along with the wicked from Revelation 20:11-15.

So within Revelation chapter 20... all three groups of people are mentioned:

The "Righteous" - the 144,000 "undefiled by the world"

The "unrighteous" - all Believers who had FAITH,,, but allowed themselves to be defiled by the world.

The "wicked" - who stood with satan and rejected GOD.

So how did I do Cam??? Is what I said,,, an acceptible exegesis??? (given the fact that revelation is a literal and metaphorical allegory)
 
Don,

Forgot to mention that examples of the "Righteous"... would be those such as Enoch, Moses, AND Elijah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
So Don...

In acts 24:15... Paul is talking about Enoch, Moses, AND Elijah,,, along with 143,997 other people that left themselves undefiled by the world... as the "righteous",,, and a great multitude of "unrighteous" seen in Heaven as mentioned in Revelation 7:9.

I keep warning you Don... leave while you still have a slight bit of credibility.
 
I'll add this for thought:

http://www.gotquestions.org/four-horsemen-apocalypse.html

Question: "Who are the four horsemen of the apocalypse?"

Answer: The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are described in Revelation chapter 6, verses 1-8. The four horsemen are symbolic descriptions of different events which will take place in the end times. The first horseman of the Apocalypse is mentioned in Revelation 6:2: “I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.” This first horseman likely refers to the Antichrist, who will be given authority and will conquer all who oppose him. The antichrist is the false imitator of the true Christ, who will also return on a white horse (Revelation 19:11-16).

The second horseman of the Apocalypse appears in Revelation 6:4, “Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.” The second horseman refers to terrible warfare that will break out in the end times. The third horseman is described in Revelation 6:5-6, “...and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’” The third horseman of the Apocalypse refers to a great famine that will take place, likely as a result of the wars from the second horseman.

The fourth horseman is mentioned in Revelation 6:8, “I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.” The fourth horseman of the Apocalypse is symbolic of death and devastation. It seems to be a combination of the previous horsemen. The fourth horseman of the Apocalypse will bring further warfare and terrible famines along with awful plagues and diseases. What is most amazing, or perhaps terrifying, is that the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are just “precursors” of even worse judgments that come later in the tribulation (Revelation chapters 8–9 and 16).
 
Cam,

I would really like to know your thoughts... and have your input on Rene Girard. He seems like a "humanist" to me,,, and the last time I checked... "humanism" was a teaching contrary to the Bible.

LS4,

If you are still watching... I would like to have the same input from you.
 
To my mind, the sort of effort that came from Rene Girard is mostly for those who live in 'ivory towers' and pontificate for the benefit of the hoi polloi far beneath them. I personally have to concern myself with just getting through the day.

When my head is running in a philosophical vein, I would tend to re-read "The Problem of Pain".

KS
 
Quote 04:` I keep warning you Don... leave while you still have a slight bit of credibility. '

LOL! You warning me? HaHaaaa! That's funny,04! You,who haven't a clue about the 144,000 are warning me...............that's rich!
What else gets thrown into that LAKE OF FIRE,04?
DEATH AND HELL along with the devil after the thousand years. This should allow you to deduce that the LAKE OF FIRE is figurative and means there will be no more coming back from that judgment.
God is not unrighteous as the world of so-called Christianity PAINTS Him..............He would NEVER torture anyone,but simply will fulfill Adam's sentence upon them....they will die.
God does not torture anyone. He could NOT be love as the scripture says if He did torture us after death. THINK about it. Romans 6:23 says it all very simply,04.
don-ohio :)^)
 
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