RedCellSix
Well-Known LVC Member
When I get my taxes, I'm driving to LMS for his MAF, Chip and Exhaust System. That's it for me and engine mods. My 94 will then be fast enough for me at my age I guess....
Dynoed today - would like some Feedback
- Thread starter AbrahamLincoln
- Start date
bends before maf= bad
what am I bitching about?
your incessant asking for some kind of justification.
in your own mind you have some FAST CAR.
in reality it's a TURD.
People try to help.. you argue with them.
ENJOY DRIVING A TURD...that's all I'm saying.
you went to the track with Crappy tires and ran crappy times
you went to the dyno with crappy mods and got crappy results.
noticing a pattern here?
fukit...I tried this before. you wouldn't listen and you've got a turd.
now I'm pissing against the wind..
because you are in "denial about your crappy mods".
enjoy being slow, until you are ready to listen to someone who has far more experience than yourself.
YOUR MODS ARE CRAP.
Put the damned thing as near to stock as you can get it..THEN start over.
DO PROPER DATA COLLECTION.
DONT BE STUPID AND LISTEN.
there.... you have a goal now.. LEARN SOMETHING AND STOP BEING STUPID.
Geno@LMS cringes everytime he sees your sig file.
what am I bitching about?
your incessant asking for some kind of justification.
in your own mind you have some FAST CAR.
in reality it's a TURD.
People try to help.. you argue with them.
ENJOY DRIVING A TURD...that's all I'm saying.
you went to the track with Crappy tires and ran crappy times
you went to the dyno with crappy mods and got crappy results.
noticing a pattern here?
fukit...I tried this before. you wouldn't listen and you've got a turd.
now I'm pissing against the wind..
because you are in "denial about your crappy mods".
enjoy being slow, until you are ready to listen to someone who has far more experience than yourself.
YOUR MODS ARE CRAP.
Put the damned thing as near to stock as you can get it..THEN start over.
DO PROPER DATA COLLECTION.
DONT BE STUPID AND LISTEN.
there.... you have a goal now.. LEARN SOMETHING AND STOP BEING STUPID.
Geno@LMS cringes everytime he sees your sig file.
my 95 with 350,000 miles made 238HP and 246 Tourqe
cadillackman
Dedicated LVC Member
slowmkviii
Dedicated LVC Member
if you don't want to listen to XLR (yes he is a bit abrasive but take it for what it is worth) than talk to your dyno shop they should have some tips for you if they know what they are doing
and if you have the means to do the compression test yourself do it its just more info you have about your car
and if you have the means to do the compression test yourself do it its just more info you have about your car
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm going to get the bottom of the operator who did the dyno to get to the bottom of some questions. I'm also going to take your advice with the intake setup, if your wrong i'm going to rub it in your face, just like my trans swap that you said was beyond me, i love my 01 gt trans!
Your car made 238 and you bought an 800 dollar program good for you. my mods are crap? my cars a turd, LEMME MISPELL WERDZ I AM STUPID bla bla your a internet tough guy!
I got your advice, but please turn off the attitude. How is my list of mods offending you? My intake is the only thing questionable to you... Other than that dual exhaust with the midpipe X magnaflow, good mod, 160 T stat, good mod, FFRP wires? good mod? screamin demon? they work well for driller?
You're right I should have dynod it stock but group dyno days are far and between. I'm not going to squabble over 20 whp over bull :q:q:q:q bolt ons, when I know that the guys who make serious hp and own the dynos tell me my spray setup should see well over 400 whp.
There are also variables as you said to the operation of the dyno, which could error 10-20 hp.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
This thread got very funny very quickly....
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
besides all the other above, how does the curve look?
agree'd I'm abrasive..no doubt.
But this isn't the first time he's asked questions, gotten answers then went and did something totally different...
Then he comes back and asks WHY his car doenst run like other poeples cars.
example.. he asked "what plugs should I run".
I told him awsfa 22 c's and 12 c's if he was gonna spray it.
He said these plugs were unavailable, yet Dennis Reinhart and Lonnie both sell these plugs on their website.
He listens to idiots at autoparts stores who are too lazy to find him the part he asks for..then he uses the part the autoparts idiot suggests.
and..then he comes back here..and again asks why his car doesn't run like it should.
go back and look at ALL of Abes posts..look at the questions he asks, then look what he does.
He doesn't listen to those that have travelled this road before, he'd rather listen to what some "honda driving autoparts idiot" tells him
He put an aftermarket coil on a car that absolutely doesnt need "hotter coils"
He puts a "cold air kit" on the car that has bends before the MAF, screwing up the maf transfer function...then when he's called out on his crappy mods..he gets all defensive.
The question is.. Does he want to have a fast car?
Or does he want to have all the "monkey see monkey do" mods ...
he cant have both.
slowmkviii
Dedicated LVC Member
I think the second pull looks good nice and even
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
i talked to the guy who was watching the computers just now, he believes it was done in D with the O/D pulling in third. Cuz the first run he hit the limiter, as you can see in the graph.
bitch please..
YOU screwd up a FUEL PUMP INSTALL..
YES I said a trans swap was above your head..and I still feel the same way.
Your mod list doesnt offend me..but I'm sure it's quite embarrassing to Geno.
NOW..before you think you are going to RUB anything in my face.
I did not say putting the stock air intake was going to FIX your piece of shyat.
i DID say your current set up is CRAP.
In fact everything you touched has turned to CRAP.
Just because screaming demon coils work for Driller whos car is LIGHT YEARS ahead of your car, doesnt mean they are gonna do SQUAT for your car.
Again.. your falling back to the typical "monkey see, monkey doo" bullcrap.
You have no data to support your mods...yet you want to split hairs with me?
you are hopeless Abe... simply hopeless.
Run back to your dynod00ds and ask THEM why your car is a turd?
They said you should have 400HP!
Did you ask them why your only 200HP away?
P.S. purchasing a 800 dollar program does not make my car faster than yours.
it's the KNOWLEDGE that I put into the program that makes my SLOW TURD SECOND GEN many car lengths faster that your "modded driveway queen"
..good for you!
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
driveway queen? nooo
Do a compression test. Your mods are fine, you are down on power but the thing that worries me is your horsepower curve. I have never seen the power drop off so much after you hit peak at around 5500rpm. Usually I recommend shifting a tuned gen 1 around 6600rpm and a gen 2 at 7000rpm but with your car I would shift at 5800-6000rpm MAX.
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
everything ive touched has turn to crap? Wheres your gen I??
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
I hit the rev limit on the first pull because i have 4.10's and the tune wasn't on for the first pull. He ran it in third, with the OD off.
CobraStar_LS8
Dedicated LVC Member
Why argue over expensive little hp mods when you can add boost and call it a day.............
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
I spray, I'm missing some hp up top and I'm not sure why.... I removed the crazy hp stealing bend now have hot air intake... I got a custom dual 2.5 with magnaflow di/do muffler internal Xpipe.
Awsf plugs are discontinued.
Awsf plugs are discontinued.
driller
Dedicated LVC Member
I think both the TQ and HP curves fall off too much IMHO. Regardless of the numbers, the shape of the curves seem off.
The torque curve should be way flatter and start to taper back past 5000-5200 rpms. The HP curve falls much too quick after peak.
You should have more torque earlier and you should have more HP later.
FWIW - look at my dyno sheet from back in '05... forget the numbers, look at the curves.
Why? I don't know - could be the dyno, could be the mods, possibly a combo of the two.
Did the torque converter lock and stay locked? That may be an issue as well. If the dyno operator cannot lockup the converter and hold it - there will be a difference. I know my car is a bitch to dyno if they can't control the TC. Anyone can lock out OD.
The torque curve should be way flatter and start to taper back past 5000-5200 rpms. The HP curve falls much too quick after peak.
You should have more torque earlier and you should have more HP later.
FWIW - look at my dyno sheet from back in '05... forget the numbers, look at the curves.
Why? I don't know - could be the dyno, could be the mods, possibly a combo of the two.
Did the torque converter lock and stay locked? That may be an issue as well. If the dyno operator cannot lockup the converter and hold it - there will be a difference. I know my car is a bitch to dyno if they can't control the TC. Anyone can lock out OD.
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
That I'm not sure, I didn't do the dyno. I assume the guy knows what he's doing... For all I know he didn't lock up, the first curve is all screwy... And that's stock. Driller does that intake bend before your mafs mess up your linear flow?
driller
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm sure he knows what he's doing - but I suspect you didn't know to ask. My guess is since the pull didn't start 'til near 4K he was trying to keep the converter locked. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. If they can't command TC lockup, you have to roll into it more before the WOT pull and cross your fingers.
I think BOTH curves are screwy, the first more than the second.
As far as the intake bend before the MAFS - of course the 'linear flow' is messed up. That's physics and you can't argue that. On my particular setup, the MAF was sold with and calibrated for the intake elbow and more importantly, the tune was done with the MAF calibration data.
There are some things you can do though. The best is a straight section of tubing before the MAF. On our cars that is a tough one to deliver. Another one is a dynotune session and another is an air screen on the inlet side of the MAF. The tune can compensate for the MAF non-linear response and a screen will dissipate and 'straighten' the inlet flow somewhat. Some OEM MAFs have this feature.
AbrahamLincoln
Dedicated LVC Member
Ok well I popped the cone filter on the end of the maf adapter, I'll see if I can find another air box if that's the case. I've had good traps but low ets. Hmm so I'm losing hp up top. The cone is straight, I'm pretty sure my mafs has a screen. I'm gonna assume this wouldn't screw up my dyno that much...I bet it's something with fuel system somehow, I gonna order a fuel guage that'll go before my fuel selenoid in my n20 kit cuz the schrader valve is in use.
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Just a few points:
1) A tuner CAN lock out whatever gear they want to pull your car on and have it stay in JUST that gear even when you go WOT on the dyno. Same goes for the TC lockup. After the tune is done those temporarily modified parameters are switched back to normal and now the trans operated normally again.
2) Bend before the MAFS will disturb laminar airflow going into the MAFS. However, this is not the end of the world. This is not as critical in a N/A application such as Abe's but still is worth good consideration. Assuming that the MAFS is not place DIRECTLY after a significant bend or intake tube size transition the resulting airflow disturbances can be taken into account with a proper recalibration. aka a custom tune. The whole MAFS itself calibrated specifically for a bend in the intake stuff is not accurate. Precalibrated MAFS, in that sense, are just a rough in job of calibration. VERY roughed in. That is what the old Fox body Mustang guys always did and still try to do. While it may have been the best method back then because of yesteryears technology it is nowhere close to the best way today. Full custom tuning (aka recalibration) has replaced that due to being lightyears more accurate. There will still need to be a custom tune done with the given mods on the car before full proper calibration is seen.
3) Abe I think your problem is a combination of a few things. First off you didn't do a baseline so you have no idea if your car just was underpowered from the getgo or what. Some cars even when having the same configuration, will make less power while others make more. Call it little variations in the manufacturing process of each part that ends up adding into a bigger different in resulting horsepower by the end. Ok, back on topic. You have no idea how far you have come with the given mods you did because you do not know where you are coming from. After all, if a person shows up on my doorstep I cannot know how far they have driven unless I know where they came from. Same principle applies here too.
Another item that I see that may be the case. I get the impression that you are making some of these changes, especially to the intake tube and MAFS placement without getting a following custom tune to recalibrate it. That will do a few undesirable things. Moving the MAFS and not recalibrating the MAFS Transfer Function will throw your AFR's off, Load will be off, Spark Advance will be off as a result to load being off, and even transmission functions can be off too (though in this case it would be bound to be very minor). Mess with the MAFS placement or intake tube configuration and it will be best to do a few pulls to ensure everything it still dialed in. If it is not then you now know what has to be done. This is the proper way to do it. It will no be the cheapest way or the most convenient way but that is life with cars. Got to pay to play. I said "may" in the first part of this paragraph because I didn't see any evidence of the contrary but I have been known to miss things. If you indeed have had a full custom tune done after those modifications then disregard what I said as just general tech talk. Remember that not all modifications require a retune. I don't want people reading what I just wrote and going out to get a dyno tune for a friggin underdrive pulley. hehe.
Good luck guys. I hope my post helped more than confused everyone.
1) A tuner CAN lock out whatever gear they want to pull your car on and have it stay in JUST that gear even when you go WOT on the dyno. Same goes for the TC lockup. After the tune is done those temporarily modified parameters are switched back to normal and now the trans operated normally again.
2) Bend before the MAFS will disturb laminar airflow going into the MAFS. However, this is not the end of the world. This is not as critical in a N/A application such as Abe's but still is worth good consideration. Assuming that the MAFS is not place DIRECTLY after a significant bend or intake tube size transition the resulting airflow disturbances can be taken into account with a proper recalibration. aka a custom tune. The whole MAFS itself calibrated specifically for a bend in the intake stuff is not accurate. Precalibrated MAFS, in that sense, are just a rough in job of calibration. VERY roughed in. That is what the old Fox body Mustang guys always did and still try to do. While it may have been the best method back then because of yesteryears technology it is nowhere close to the best way today. Full custom tuning (aka recalibration) has replaced that due to being lightyears more accurate. There will still need to be a custom tune done with the given mods on the car before full proper calibration is seen.
3) Abe I think your problem is a combination of a few things. First off you didn't do a baseline so you have no idea if your car just was underpowered from the getgo or what. Some cars even when having the same configuration, will make less power while others make more. Call it little variations in the manufacturing process of each part that ends up adding into a bigger different in resulting horsepower by the end. Ok, back on topic. You have no idea how far you have come with the given mods you did because you do not know where you are coming from. After all, if a person shows up on my doorstep I cannot know how far they have driven unless I know where they came from. Same principle applies here too.
Another item that I see that may be the case. I get the impression that you are making some of these changes, especially to the intake tube and MAFS placement without getting a following custom tune to recalibrate it. That will do a few undesirable things. Moving the MAFS and not recalibrating the MAFS Transfer Function will throw your AFR's off, Load will be off, Spark Advance will be off as a result to load being off, and even transmission functions can be off too (though in this case it would be bound to be very minor). Mess with the MAFS placement or intake tube configuration and it will be best to do a few pulls to ensure everything it still dialed in. If it is not then you now know what has to be done. This is the proper way to do it. It will no be the cheapest way or the most convenient way but that is life with cars. Got to pay to play. I said "may" in the first part of this paragraph because I didn't see any evidence of the contrary but I have been known to miss things. If you indeed have had a full custom tune done after those modifications then disregard what I said as just general tech talk. Remember that not all modifications require a retune. I don't want people reading what I just wrote and going out to get a dyno tune for a friggin underdrive pulley. hehe.
Good luck guys. I hope my post helped more than confused everyone.
ILLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Or if you are spinning your tires as much as you claimed earlier then that could be the culprit. You will see higher traps with worse ET's when having significant traction problems off the line.
How in the heck will you know it is a fuel issue when you do not even know what your AFR's were from that last pull. Again, you got to know where you are coming from before you know how to get where you want to go.
Also what do you mean your fuel schrader is still in use??? If that thing is still in there and you plan to spray the car then you best take the schrader out otherwise you will be spraying the nitrous but no fuel. BAD DAY! I really hope I read this wrong.