Devin's 06 LS - Round 2
- Thread starter DeviLSh
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DeviLSh
Dedicated LVC Member
I would be lying to you if I said I haven't thought about both of those 
V8 Vantage's are getting pretty affordable. But I dont know if I could hack one up just to put the guts into an LS, lol.
I have thought about the S-type's n/a 4.2 (AJ34), as its basically the same motor, but I am not sure if the LS electronics can run it, or if the lift from 3.9 to 4.2 is even worth it. I have found a few threads on jagforums where guys have tuned them in the XJ and XK, and they get another 15-20hp out of it with cats, intake, etc. The long blocks are affordable ($1,500) and I bet the swap would be pretty easy hardware wise to the LS. But likely not worth the effort for essentially a stroker. I still like the overall idea of it for fun though.
V8 Vantage's are getting pretty affordable. But I dont know if I could hack one up just to put the guts into an LS, lol.
I have thought about the S-type's n/a 4.2 (AJ34), as its basically the same motor, but I am not sure if the LS electronics can run it, or if the lift from 3.9 to 4.2 is even worth it. I have found a few threads on jagforums where guys have tuned them in the XJ and XK, and they get another 15-20hp out of it with cats, intake, etc. The long blocks are affordable ($1,500) and I bet the swap would be pretty easy hardware wise to the LS. But likely not worth the effort for essentially a stroker. I still like the overall idea of it for fun though.
The 4.2L block would probably be the easiest. Just swap the electronics & whatnot. The 4.4L Land Rover block is just a bored-out 4.2L, everything else is the same except for the oil pan. There's a few Jaguar guys that have done it already. The 4.3L/4.7L would be the most complicated because of the dry sump & the oil system setup. But, everything's getting cheaper right now
For all the AJ-V8 swaps the biggest issue was always with the tuning (or lack thereof). The Jaguar, Aston Martin, & Ford/Lincoln engines all used different ECM systems so swapping was usually only by a determined few. But, you can tune your ECM, can't you?
Almost forgot: the Aston Martin V8 heads (4.3L & 4.7L) can ONLY fit to the Aston Martin V8 intake manifold. They're cast differently than the 3.9L/4.0L/4.2L/4.4L heads. Also, the 4.2L & 4.4L heads are the same. There's other stuff but can't remember it all off the top of my head, but I can get the particulars if anybody's interested
DeviLSh
Dedicated LVC Member
Yes loving this discussion
This one? Is firing order the same from the 4.2 and 3.9 to take advantage of the variable lengths?
2W939430JB Jaguar 2003 2004 2006 S-type XJ8 XJR Exhaust Manifold Right OEM | eBay
Lincoln & Aston Martin are numbered the same and Jaguar & Land Rover are numbered the same, but are different from Lincoln & Aston Martin. But the firing orders are exactly the same between all the AJ-V8 variants. It's been noted that the combustion chambers for the AM-V8 are close to the race version of the Jaguar heads, so if you start thinking about headwork I would consider that as a pretty good design reference
SteveOwens
Active LVC Member
Do the Aston Martin tubular headers manifold flange design match the AJ-V8 design?
Match? As in physically fit to the block? Yes. But, I've been told that the subframe & steering rack are in the way on DEW98 chassis vehicles. Haven't confirmed that myself, so you're more than welcome to try if you want to. The exhaust route/layout is different on the V8 Vantage since it uses a torque tube (like a Corvette) & the transmission is in the rear with the differential. The exhaust starts curving towards the center of the car as soon as it passes the bellhousing of the torque tube, so on an LS it would get real tricky trying to get past the transmission. You'd need custom exhaust setup anyway for your cat converters. The V8V 4.3L double-cats right about where the transmission sits. The 4.7L V8V has a set of converters integrated into the headers and smaller ones in the same location as the 4.3L. The aftermarket headers for V8V are awesome...with an equally awesome Aston Martin-worthy price tag to match
SteveOwens
Active LVC Member
Hi HRLNKN, I appreciate all the detail info about the only tubular header made for the AMV8 and adaptable to the AJV8 and Lincoln 3.9l. I considered the headers but I don't have a tig welder or knowledge of a specialist to modify a set a pipes that deserve A1 work. To increase the flow i had to place a Bassini X-pipe where the mixing chamber behind the catalytic converters. This one mod allowed the power into 4500+ than 2800 rpm. Thus mid range is realized. Fun! The second mod i did was to fully insulate the exhaust sys from the manifolds to the mufflers with Kaowool and fiberglass. This kept the air hotter and the air density lower further down the pipes. I notice better acceleration after insulating without the x-pipe installed. The hottest reading was 600-650°F (Fluke IR Therm) after getting off the road from continuous freeway travel. The cabin is cooler and the engine bay is not nearly as hot deteriorating the rubber and plastics under the hood.
To be fair, over the years I've picked the minds of many (much) smarter people to try to figure out the best way to get the most bang for the least amount of effort & time. I got really lucky running into both the engineer that developed the AJ-V8 in the first place (that's his thread I linked to) and the guy that was in charge of development of the AM-V8 (he started a company that caters exclusively to Aston's & took some folks from his team with him). As I understand it, the headers on there own are worth a few horsepower, and the exhaust a few more, but it's the tuning that's most important. The cats, no matter what version you use, are where the most restrictions are
DeviLSh
Dedicated LVC Member
Love all this knowledge and thanks for the link HRLNKN, i need a second degree in engineering and fluid dynamics to understand it all haha. So I def need to dedicate some time and see if I can come up with some reasonable takeaways.
Two brief follow up questions:
1) You mentioned cats, I am trying to decide if I want to delete my stock pair entirely, or run a hi-flo version (100 or 200 cel). I put less than 2k mi a year on this car and have an emission exemption as a result, so assuming I can tune them out i'd be open to this and not feel too bad about it. But on some NA cars, I have found the cats actually help a bit with tq and powerband. Curious if you think going away with them entirely would net me positive. (it would certainly make custom exhaust cheaper to make, and that is on my list of things to do, redo my custom catback, and add thermal management to it)
2) Just ordered a 4.2 NA throttle body from S-Type/XF. It looks to be a bit different than the LS unit. Perhaps less taper and a bit wider at the inlet than the LS. Curious if the TB and the XJ exhaust manifolds would boost the 3.9 any more.
Two brief follow up questions:
1) You mentioned cats, I am trying to decide if I want to delete my stock pair entirely, or run a hi-flo version (100 or 200 cel). I put less than 2k mi a year on this car and have an emission exemption as a result, so assuming I can tune them out i'd be open to this and not feel too bad about it. But on some NA cars, I have found the cats actually help a bit with tq and powerband. Curious if you think going away with them entirely would net me positive. (it would certainly make custom exhaust cheaper to make, and that is on my list of things to do, redo my custom catback, and add thermal management to it)
2) Just ordered a 4.2 NA throttle body from S-Type/XF. It looks to be a bit different than the LS unit. Perhaps less taper and a bit wider at the inlet than the LS. Curious if the TB and the XJ exhaust manifolds would boost the 3.9 any more.
No prob bro. Glad to get the chance to share my thoughts and ideas with like-minded folks. As for the questions:
1) If you ever intend to drive on the street at all, just get hi-flo cats. From what I've been told, & experienced, going cat-less vs hi-flos will give you difficult-to-quantify gains, and lots of raw fuel smell. Not my thing, but to each their own.
2) For a throttle body upgrade I'd stick to Ford-family stuff, either Mustang or F150. It's already been done on this forum, plus it opens the door to the big bore stuff. Just do your research before you pick a brand. The Jaguar, Aston Martin, & Land Rover throttle bodies are all kinda different, so you might want to check the pin-outs for them before you go and spend money.
As with all things, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it & YMMV. Good luck either way
1) If you ever intend to drive on the street at all, just get hi-flo cats. From what I've been told, & experienced, going cat-less vs hi-flos will give you difficult-to-quantify gains, and lots of raw fuel smell. Not my thing, but to each their own.
2) For a throttle body upgrade I'd stick to Ford-family stuff, either Mustang or F150. It's already been done on this forum, plus it opens the door to the big bore stuff. Just do your research before you pick a brand. The Jaguar, Aston Martin, & Land Rover throttle bodies are all kinda different, so you might want to check the pin-outs for them before you go and spend money.
As with all things, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it & YMMV. Good luck either way
SteveOwens, this guy explains the different exhaust mods & their various effects. Granted, it's on the AM-V8, but the basic rules of thumb are the same. His 7th post in that thread (about halfway down) I found to be very helpful in figuring out what direction I wanted to go in, how, & why. You can decide for yourself whether you agree with his reasoning or not.
DeviLSh
Dedicated LVC Member
Where have you been all my life? I never seem to get anywhere on the jag forums, but you are a gold miner.
The headers really have my interest, need to read up on the rest and do a deep dive. I found a set of the XJ manifolds local but looking at pics, they dont seem different enough to justify swapping out on the LS. So I like these headers more.. (naturally, the more expensive route) I have to build custom downpipes and redo my catback anyway, so I might as well start with the best up front.
I see there is a T-bird user who posted, I wonder if he ended up getting a set and fitting them. If they fit the t-bird (or even an Stype) I would feel confident. Need to dig up my jagforum UN and PW and get cracking.
Thanks again
The headers really have my interest, need to read up on the rest and do a deep dive. I found a set of the XJ manifolds local but looking at pics, they dont seem different enough to justify swapping out on the LS. So I like these headers more.. (naturally, the more expensive route) I have to build custom downpipes and redo my catback anyway, so I might as well start with the best up front.
I see there is a T-bird user who posted, I wonder if he ended up getting a set and fitting them. If they fit the t-bird (or even an Stype) I would feel confident. Need to dig up my jagforum UN and PW and get cracking.
Thanks again
It's what I do...lol! Seriously, there's a few of us that are active on both forums, (& many more). I like to plan things out on car projects way, WAY ahead of time, (or procrastinate as my wife puts it). My original plan has shifted from supercharged V8, to NA V8, to V6. Couldn't decide, so I gathered data & ideas. Then I got more, then more, then...you get the idea. Probably gonna go V6, but I've got a folder (or 4) of info, specs, & data that I probably won't use, so ask away. I got plenty
DeviLSh
Dedicated LVC Member
awesome - will keep that in mind as this winter arrives. I am trying to unload a project at the moment, and then I will start to plan out some bigger steps on my LS. I am leaning towards the 3.9 maxed out, or a 4.2 NA, also well sorted and maxed out.
While I am at it though - ever seen anyone run stand alone on any of these AJV8's? For the moment I am happy with the SCT and its tuner network, but I would love to "divorce" the stock ecu from the rest of the chassis at some point to simplify adn reduce wiring. This is down the road, but with all the jag stuff you've seen, wondering if there are any AJV8 kits out there. I haven't event started the journey of engine management.
**Update on car** - Was having some vibration at 70mph after the new shaft, so it is back at the driveline shop for inspection/re-balance. Also noticed a quarter size of ATF on the garage floor after the last few short drives (only 275 mi on the car post-diff install). No idea if the two are related, but trans work (or manual conversion) maybe be in the near future.
While I am at it though - ever seen anyone run stand alone on any of these AJV8's? For the moment I am happy with the SCT and its tuner network, but I would love to "divorce" the stock ecu from the rest of the chassis at some point to simplify adn reduce wiring. This is down the road, but with all the jag stuff you've seen, wondering if there are any AJV8 kits out there. I haven't event started the journey of engine management.
**Update on car** - Was having some vibration at 70mph after the new shaft, so it is back at the driveline shop for inspection/re-balance. Also noticed a quarter size of ATF on the garage floor after the last few short drives (only 275 mi on the car post-diff install). No idea if the two are related, but trans work (or manual conversion) maybe be in the near future.
As far as stand-alone ECU's are concerned, I've only really been checking out stuff for the V6 & MegaSquirt comes up a lot in the convos I've had. Not the cheapest and way more than I was looking for personally, but in your case maybe an option depending on the direction you want to go with your project. If you ever find your login stuff for the Jag forum, you should PM Count Iblis. And/or BamfordMike on the pistonheads Aston Martin forum, but he's kinda hard to get a hold of on there. Might be better with an email to his shop. Between the two, Count Iblis would get my vote on depth of knowledge on the V8 in particular. After all, it was his baby