Coolant Cross over cap is stuck on like nuts! And my car is now going nuts - Help!

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MN12hybrid

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I used the search feature, but my situation is a little different. I CANT get this cap off, and I dont have access to a welder either to weld a nut on it.

I just recently got my Mark in mid May, and had a control arm break but I saw that one coming and with all your assistance I was able to end up rebuilding 75% of my front end - and what a difference it makes!

This one I didnt see coming - The coolant looked nasty in my car so I thought I would pop open the reservoir and of course it was still too warm so it came out violently (that I should have seen coming). Great, I figured I got air in this way. The coolant that came out was extraordinarily filthy, and I was wondering how it was keeping the car from overheating. On really hot days the temp gauge would be at the O (in normal range) but its been real hot out here as it was 109 yesterday.

So I go to work on getting off the cross over tube cap,

The previous owner has the head of their old 1/4 drive stuck in the opening, which he attempted to drill out and the opening is all screwed up and most of the head of the 1/4 drive is still in there. I have sprayed it with lube, heated it, hammered it, used robo grip large wrenches, and large pipe wrenches, and nothing happens. It even looks like the previous owner had tried the same thing since the side of the cap is all chewed up and in some spots you can barely see the difference between the metal on the cap and the metal on the tube its so bad.

I drained the radiator anyway since I just started this process, since I really need the car to drive badly right now. So I took out the reservoir and cleaned it extensively, put it back in and then took the top radiator hose (left of the crossover fitting) off the crossover pipe and filled the radiator as high as it would go with the car running and the heat on full. It took a while to heat up but all I got coming from the cross over was a bunch of steam coming out and no water as it refused to travel through the system because of lack of pressure, and I let it steam like that that for a few moments with the motor on, and then (with thick rubber gloves) quickly slipped the hose back on the cross over tube and let it run for another 2 mins. Temp went to the R range (just above middle), and the reservoir is full. Let it cool off completely and topped off the reservoir again. And ran the motor to warm it to mid range with the thermo opening and the e-fan turning on, and then turning if off and letting it cool only to top off the reservoir that was only half full again after.

I did this again last night, and pulled the clamp on the upper hose going on to the tube, and just slightly let the hose loose and TONS of air was coming out. As soon as it stopped and cooled of, I topped off the reservoir and re-started the process.

The the fun begins... I let it sit to heat to M range, then took the car for a ride around the block and it was very very weak, and pinging (almost knocking) like crazy - the temp gauge shot up to the N, and during this whole time the onboard computer stated the engine temp was ok.

Got it back in the driveway, let it sit for 5 minutes and restarted to see what would happen and it just cranks... finally it starts but only stays started after holding the gas (the check engine light comes on during this time and then turns quickly off when I started driving), and then after 30 secs it stays running on its own and pinging again and weak and the temp was in the O range, and the computer still says temp normal and coolant normal - the only thing the computer bitches about is the wiper fluid, and exterior lamps.

I pulled the lower rad hose clamp and slightly slipped the hose down just a pinch to let this huge amount of steamed air come out. I pulled the battery cable to reset the computer as well.

Right now there is only water in it, but I just wanted to drive it that way for a short time - long enough to clean the crap out of the system and then drain the system and re-fill with coolant and water later in the week and bleed it properly with a replacement tube from the wrecking yard that isnt all :q:q:q:qed up.


-- What should I do at this point? Isnt there any other way to bleed this car? I was hoping there has to be some other kind of method to use.

I am near desperate as I need to drive the car badly, but dont want to :q:q:q:q up the motor either.

-- What is the normal range on the temp gauge when these motors run normal? Mine goes to O range in the hot days, and then drops back down mid way after fan kicks on full speed.

I am about to go back outside ready for a real fight with this car - I am not sure if I should try drilling out a center section of the cap and installing a plug, or cutting it out at this point but those will be the absolute last resorts as I will just get another pipe at a wrecking yard first.

Are there any suggestions for things that I can do now to get the car drivable at least? The car has always driven very nicely, and really moves, but last night it was soooo weak and pinging, and I can hear it strong along the top of the motor.


Thanks in advance guys!!
 
my car runs in on the A in normal unless its over 100 with the ac on. then i'll see it at or slightly above the M.

as far as the crossover tube, get a new one. the one you have sounds screwed. should be someone around here who can get you one soon-ish.
 
You can always weld a nut onto the cap since it is screwed anyway. Just get good penetration and then you have something to work with.

Good Luck.
 
Quit running the engine until you're able to bleed the air out the system properly. The reason why the sensors are showing acceptable temps while the engine is so hot that it's detonating (that pinging sound you're hearing), is because the sensors are seeing steam rather than coolant.
 
I just found an old torch in the garage, and im hoping it works and doesnt blow me up!

If I can only find a way to get this crossover cap off, then it should be all good based on what I am hearing then.

I took the car for a quick drive around the block and its pinging away, but the car felt completely normal at least so I feel a little better that its air related.

But as for how to get this cap off? Any other ideas that havent been tried yet?

Should I try cutting the cap off the tube?

I would pull the whole tube if it would help but it obviously wont because that along would leave huge air pockets.
 
A hammer and a chisel.
Go to town on the cap, it will come off.
Don't cut at.

If the hammer method fails, find a shop with a wire feed to get a nut welded on the top of the cap.
 
Remove the hose directly under the cap...spray a lubricant at the bottom of the cap. I've got several cross tubes laying around. For the right price it'll come with a polished and cleared lug cap
20120517_091646.jpg
 
I found a torch that works actually in the garage and heated it up good, but it still wont budge..

Then again, should I be heating this up until the crossover cap is glowing red? Ill go see if I can find a chisel and beat the :q:q:q:q outta this thing... this is really screwing me up bad right now. There is still a bit of that 1/4 drive head in the top of the cap that I broke several drill bits already trying to get it out.

Any method recommended to get whats left of that old 1/4 drive head out? If I can get that out so I can fit a wrench in there, then I may be able to just heat it up and hope for the best.

I will call around to see if there are any local shops that will weld a nut on to this cross over cap - I can limp the car if I absolutely have to if its under a mile or 2 right? Or am I asking for the kind of trouble that is even worse than this?

When I look at the cap from the side, you can even see where it fits on the crossover tube as it looks like its all one piece at this point!
 
The caps lip is only 3/16" thick. You can usually grab it with a good Pipe Wrench, not regular pliers. Doubt your seals have survived if you've heated it to glowing red, which means you'll need to remove the tube and replace all seals, there's 4 total
 
Sapperfire said:
Remove the hose directly under the cap...spray a lubricant at the bottom of the cap. I've got several cross tubes laying around. For the right price it'll come with a polished and cleared lug cap
Click to expand...

Whats the right price, and how soon could you get it over to me in Los Angeles? :D

I may have no other choice but to borrow a car tomorrow to go to the wrecking yard, and get another cross over tube that isnt so beat up with a bad cross over cap on it.

Just my luck, I should have left the cooling system the hell along until I had ALL the hoses, new thermostat, and I was ready to clean the radiator - I saw the cross over cap and knew that had to come off to bleed the system when I bought the car, and I had a feeling it was going to be a fight!

My car was running warmer than I would like, but nowhere near overheating and it was very very drivable and sounded normal (and was not losing a drop of coolant before this spectacle) - right now its over 100 at 12:30 almost... should be over 110 today... uggghhhh . Normally I dont use the AC since the lines are trashed, although the AC clutch cycles very quickly on and off and kicks the fan on when you turn on the AC so there might be a pinch of freon left in the system.
 
Should I try bleeding this any other way? I noticed that the car wasn't pinging and making that :q:q:q:qed up sound when I had the upper hose off and had steam bleeding out of the crossover pipe?

I didnt actually heat it up to the point where it was glowing red, so I will still try to get this thing off for now since its all I can do..

I thought I heard of something in the past where you are able to bleed through a heater hose - was that a hoax? :)
 
uh oh, does this not come off like a regular nut or bolt? I was turning (trying to) the cap counter clockwise
 
The cap is the highest point in the system... you may try to lift the left side of the car and burp out of the bottle(just to get it to a close shop) . No you wont be able to burp thru any of the hoses.
Pm me for tube pricing

It'll take a few days just depending on delivery speed ..you can pay express and have it in 2 days, I'm in texas
 
if i try to bleed it by lifting the left of the car high off the ground, should I be doing that with the motor running or off?
 
will it screw the motor up if I idle it while its knocking/pinging away like this?

I will need to idle it to build pressure and warm it up to coax the air pockets out it looks like, so I am assuming to leave the cap to the reservoir off the whole time. I will also unbolt it and temporarily re-locate it higher so it sits higher than the fusebox. That way the reservoir opening is higher than that stupid crossover cap. lol

by the way, you do have to turn this cross over tube cap "counter-clockwise" to get it off right? not clockwise?

Thanks!
 
If it's really pinging and knocking at idle, you've killed it. :eek:

Yes, the cap comes off CCW. :rolleyes:

You really need to find a good mechanic, because you shouldn't be working on the car. :p
 
Counter clock, its a right hand thread.

Don't drive it knocking and pinging, its hot and you take out a head gasket.
 
They can be a bear to get off.
It has to come off, and be filled before you try to start it again.
Let it cool off, if you can't get it off get it towed to a shop.

Then say a prayer.

A 4v prayer.

To the 4v God.....
 
well, i unbolted the reservoir and loosened it from the fusebox and then stuck a brick under the reservoir (which disconnecting the wire from the reservoir level sensor). The top of the reservoir is now a good 2-3 inches higher than the cross over cap.. i did this with the motor off and I could hear all kinds of air gurgling through that thing!

The motor isnt pinging/knocking at idle, only when you rev it about maybe 2500rpms.. even then, that has gone away a lot compared to before after trying this burp procedure.

right now the heater is on, motor is running at idle, and the cap to the reservoir is off, the temp gauge is sitting right in the middle at least, because its been in the O range for the past 3 weeks (at least it was still running right even if a little warm).

I was hoping to do something to get this cap off - on a different note, I managed to get the motor out of my girlffriends Kia that was in an accident. stick your pinky in the opening of a coke can and crush the can around it, and thats what it was like because her subframe was bent and the motor pushed all the way into the side of the engine bay. Once i got that motor out, I replaced it (since it had a bad HG) and the trans after having the front end of the car fixed. The motor went into the car a LOT easier than getting it out.. thats for sure.


update - 5 mins have passed and all kinds of nasty :q:q:q:q left over from the old coolant is coming up out of the reservoir. Not too many bubbles, but a LOT of gurgling. Motor sounds completely normal except for this godawful squealing belt tensioner that I am going to be dealing with as soon as this major major problem is taken care of..

I hope I dont have to pray to the 4v gods, but I will anyway! Back out I go, lotsa fun. These cars are so similar to all my tbirds, but the motor is soooo different its not even funny.
 
You do not get the system hot to make pressure, you get it jot only to get the thermostat to open. You are not interested in anything to do with pressure... The knocking is BAD and is because the engine is very overheated. Driving it like that is a death wish for your engine, that you can bet money on. You also aren't supposed to be letting "steam" out, you are letting air bubbles out. The engine shows that the temperature is normal because there is no liquid touching the sensors. Your options are these... Replace the crossover pipe and bleed it properly, or get that plug out. I think pretty much anything other than that is a waste of time. You can also start the bleed procedure with the engine cold...
 
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