Cobra throttle body....

ripped camel

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Not that I'm a car expert by any means because I'm not, but working at Steeda I was able to see many things dyno'd before and after to see the true potential of mods.

On a stock 4.6 mustang GT with a SOHC you'll pick up...well, follow the links and you'll see......

http://www.americanmuscle.com/ac42v70thbop.html

http://www.accufabracing.com/mustang_gt.htm

Now here's dyno sheets and info for the 96-98 Cobra DOHC with the Accufab....

http://www.accufabracing.com/cobra.htm

Like I said I've seen many of these things dyno'd first hand with my own eyes. Every little bit does help, however there is a such thing as too much. To big of an opening can actually result in a loss power unless the rest of the system matches ie better flowing heads, free flow exhaust etc. That's why most SOHC guys opt for the 70mm tb/plenum combo over the 75mm.

However with the DOHC setup they have more efficiency to play with than the SOHC guys so we will see a benefit from a tb mod.
 

kustomizingkid

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i don't believe that BS either... the variability of one dyno run vs another and throwing in weather changes... well you can fake the :q:q:q:q out of dyno number is what I'm really saying.
 

XLRVIII

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and gains posted on the manufacturers website are really really subject to scrutiny.
 

Rich88LSC

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If I read that correctly they are saying the factory Cobra throttle body flows almost 1100cfm. I cant see how there is much HP to be gained swapping that out.
 

XLRVIII

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That's a pretty rough statement man. Just because someone has different logic than you doesn't make them stupid.

Might be "rough" but it's a true statement.

There is ZERO gain in the cobra TB.

Many people have the misconception that "putting cobra parts" on is some magical road to increased HP...

When in fact, and I've said this many many times.
They are two seperate cars that share a similar engine.

Just because it works WELL in a lightweight stickshift car does not mean it's an AUTOMAGIC HP increase in a super heavy automatic car.

The intake and cam strategy is completely different between a light stick car and a heavy auto car.

Ever wonder why the cobra never HAD an auto?

it wasn't because it's a "race car" it's because the entire platform had been "optimized" for a stick...
and there would be alot of R&D required to make the same HP with an auto.

Hence it was almost 10 years later than ford offered a mustang with a 4V 4.6 with an Auto (mach 1).. and LOW AND BEHOLD the mach 1 intake is ALOT different than the cobra from 96-98.

That is why when a cobra intake is put on a mark 8, the bottom end grunt dissapears..and you need a higher gear ratio and a higher stall to overcome this hinderance caused by the intake.

Cobra does not automagically mean BETTER.
 

XLRVIII

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If I read that correctly they are saying the factory Cobra throttle body flows almost 1100cfm. I cant see how there is much HP to be gained swapping that out.

+1
just like putting a larger maf on a car that doesnt need one.
Putting a larger throttle body on a car that doesnt need one is also a mistake.

something people fail to realize is these uberlarge throttle bodies will cause driveability issues... just by their design.

consider the stock TB, the blades have what is called controlled leakage around the plates..
When you increase the TB blade size you also increase the amount of leakage around the blades, thus causing idle control issues.

Then you wind up with some goofy "hack job" restrictor in your IAC because the IAC cant adjust for the additional leakage around the TB.

ALL of this for a "perceived and immeasurable" HP increase and some "BLING".
*shakes head*

Then... they run on the internet and "beat up" their tuner because their vehicle with mismatched parts/ill thought out mods wont idle correctly.
 

ripped camel

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+1
just like putting a larger maf on a car that doesnt need one.
Putting a larger throttle body on a car that doesnt need one is also a mistake.

something people fail to realize is these uberlarge throttle bodies will cause driveability issues... just by their design.

consider the stock TB, the blades have what is called controlled leakage around the plates..
When you increase the TB blade size you also increase the amount of leakage around the blades, thus causing idle control issues.

Then you wind up with some goofy "hack job" restrictor in your IAC because the IAC cant adjust for the additional leakage around the TB.

ALL of this for a "perceived and immeasurable" HP increase and some "BLING".
*shakes head*

Then... they run on the internet and "beat up" their tuner because their vehicle with mismatched parts/ill thought out mods wont idle correctly.

Good points when you put it that way. But that's why people that don't have the same expertise with cars ask questions and post their thoughts...... To possibly learn something.

It doesn't mean I'm stupid and use "internetz logic" as kustomizingkid wrote. Sorry but that was an ignorant, unnecessary statement. Put him in a law, ethics, philosophy, or debate class and I'd run circles around him. Why? Because that's where my strong points are. Does that make him stupid? By his logic yes. But in my logic NO that does not make him stupid, that merely means he needs guidance to better understand those areas he's lacking.

See the difference?

It's one thing to rag on people and joke with them about things. It's a whole different ball game to insult them and act as though they are superior to others. Very uncool!
 

XLRVIII

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I understand what you are saying.

There are "kinder and gentler" mark 8 message boards.

LVC just isn't one of those places.

There is no candy coating here, people speak freely and off the cuff.

it may seem harsh, but many times people will post bad information in threads such as this..and then other people read that bad information and all of a sudden WIKIPEDIA says Cobra TB makes a bazillion HP on a mark 8....and people BELIEVE it.

better to nip bad information in the bud, sorry KK's comment offended you.

I dont really think it was a personal attack on you.


hang out.. get the feel for the place and YOU TOO can SLING smarta$$ comments with the best of us.
 

ripped camel

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Don't get me wrong, I'm all about sarcasm and ragging on others in a playful way. But that was a flatout insult with no intention of being funny in a sarcastic way. I can read into that pretty well which is why I'm going for law. I need to be able to interpret what I read, and what I hear well in order to adjust to the situation.

I'm a blunt person and tell people how it is. I don't candy coat anything, ever. But to insinuate someone is dumb because they are asking questions is insulting someone with ill intention.

Do I hold it against him? Absolutely not, as things are said, and sometimes people don't realize how things come across sometimes. Should people walk on eggshells when they talk to others? NO! People should just use more common sense when saying things.

Btw, I can't stand political correctness! I think it's an absolute perversion of our right to free speech. If you met me in person you would realize I'm the farthest thing from politically correct.

There's a difference between political correctness and insulting someone.

Edit: btw funny sig! HAHAHA
 

kustomizingkid

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The thing is that me and other members blatantly stated why the cobra tb isn't worth it... and you still were pushing bs info...
 

Frogman

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I promise to nicer if you promise to be smarter.
Camel, it's not worth arguing this point with XLR... The guy tunes his cars. He doesn't go and pay some tuner a small fortune to make small changes to a tune he's had for years and then send it to him.

If the guy says a Cobra TB won't do jack squat, he means it. He's read a pamphlet or two on the stuff, I'm sure, and he's maybe even trying to save you some money.

I mean, seriously, what did you expect the manufacturers you listed to say? "Pay us 450 bucks for this cobra stuff, but we'll be honest with you... you ain't gonna see jack schit for performance on a Mark VIII."? They are in the business of making money.

Feel free to ask questions here. But expect to be told how it is from people who know their Mark VIII's, like it or not.
 

Rich88LSC

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Camel, it's not worth arguing this point with XLR... The guy tunes his cars. He doesn't go and pay some tuner a small fortune to make small changes to a tune he's had for years and then send it to him.

How does Tommy having a good deal of experiance tuning his Mark VIIIs with stock throttle bodies have anything to do with it? Not that I'm argueing swapping throttle bodies on a mild Mark VIII is a waste.
 

XLRVIII

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How does Tommy having a good deal of experiance tuning his Mark VIIIs with stock throttle bodies have anything to do with it? Not that I'm argueing swapping throttle bodies on a mild Mark VIII is a waste.

It's called knowledge and experience.

Let me ask you...

DO you actually have to "BITE" the sh*t sandwich to know it taste like sh*t or does your previous experience tell you that it does taste like sh*t without actually BITING it?

you can dicker my experience level all you like.

it's not gonna change the FACTS...

FACT putting a larger TB on a Mark 8 is going to net you ZERO gains.
 

XLRVIII

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Keeping in mind that for over 30 years I drove mustangs.
I've been exposed to "all the larger this and larger that" HYPE...

99% of it is absolute BULLSH*T and I dont have to TASTE IT to find out.
 

Rich88LSC

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It's called knowledge and experience.

Let me ask you...

DO you actually have to "BITE" the sh*t sandwich to know it taste like sh*t or does your previous experience tell you that it does taste like sh*t without actually BITING it?

you can dicker my experience level all you like.

it's not gonna change the FACTS...

FACT putting a larger TB on a Mark 8 is going to net you ZERO gains.

Don't get your nuts in knot man. I said I wasn't arguing with your conclusion I agreed with it.

What I am saying is how does Frogman think tuning your car make you more qualified then someone like say JP who has a good amount of mods and a well sort out car but doesn't tune it himself to say this mod or any other besides a tune works or doesn't.

Your experience with Marks, Mustangs or whatever other cars does help you make an educated decision that again I AGREE WITH not that you decided(for reasons we discussed in another thread and understand) to buy the PRP. I never said you were wrong or questioned your experiance level. If you took offense that wasn't my intention, I guess I'm just a d*ick too
 

XLRVIII

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I guess I'm just a d*ick too


On second thought, there can "Only" be one.

there are open seats/positions under the heading nutsack.

*duties would include keeping right/ford nut and left nut KK swinging in unison. (those two could screw up a crow bar in a sand pile)

no openings for Frogman or dick
you can be NS1 though

There are some rear admirer positions currently being filled by PeteSweets, but you have to arm wrestle with Pete for that one.
 

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