Bad miss
- Thread starter tda13
- Start date
ford nut
Local nut case
Is that the one that goes into the driver side of the intake (throttle body)?
Yes... I replaced it, if that's the one.
If my two front O2 sensors were bad, would the car think it was lean? I am getting that good old rotten egg smell, but no O2 codes (this time). They need replaced anyway, but I just curious.
Can O2 sensors cause a miss??? I didn't think so but?????
Can O2 sensors cause a miss??? I didn't think so but?????
ford nut
Local nut case
It's the t line, it hooks up to the intake, then runs to the pcv, yes it on the drivers side.
I don't think its running lean, I think the codes means too much ox read by the o2 sensor.
Rotten egg smell leads one to think it isn't burning all the fuel, its getting into the cat.
It wont hurt to change the 02's, I am sure your getting sick of throwing parts at this thing.
On my 93 I had a bad miss.. rotten egg smell, changed the 02's ...no help.
It was a bad spark plug wire.
I am thinking vac leak or ext leak before 02 sensor.
egr tube?
In your parts list, you said you changed the egr.
I don't think its running lean, I think the codes means too much ox read by the o2 sensor.
Rotten egg smell leads one to think it isn't burning all the fuel, its getting into the cat.
It wont hurt to change the 02's, I am sure your getting sick of throwing parts at this thing.
On my 93 I had a bad miss.. rotten egg smell, changed the 02's ...no help.
It was a bad spark plug wire.
I am thinking vac leak or ext leak before 02 sensor.
egr tube?
In your parts list, you said you changed the egr.
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Technically too much oxygen being read by the O2 IS a lean condition! :lol:
Anywho, to get both to read lean at the same time would indicate the car is actually running lean. Many things can cause this but the most common are a bad/dirty MAF meter and/of leaks in the intake.
Just check the obvious things first. Intake tube after MAF have any tears in it? The crank case breather hose leaking? Check the PCV grommets. Check all vac lines.
If all that is good then chances are the lower intake gasket it leaking. Its really not a big deal just have to remove a lot of crap in the way. Since you have it apart you should go ahead and get the plenum to IMRC and the IMRC to head gaskets. Also (and this is just me finding its worth the effort) replace the orings that attach the upper plenum to the lower and a new t-body gasket.
Also the FelPros are just fine. They are 1/3 the cost of OEM and in my experience they work better.
Anywho, to get both to read lean at the same time would indicate the car is actually running lean. Many things can cause this but the most common are a bad/dirty MAF meter and/of leaks in the intake.
Just check the obvious things first. Intake tube after MAF have any tears in it? The crank case breather hose leaking? Check the PCV grommets. Check all vac lines.
If all that is good then chances are the lower intake gasket it leaking. Its really not a big deal just have to remove a lot of crap in the way. Since you have it apart you should go ahead and get the plenum to IMRC and the IMRC to head gaskets. Also (and this is just me finding its worth the effort) replace the orings that attach the upper plenum to the lower and a new t-body gasket.
Also the FelPros are just fine. They are 1/3 the cost of OEM and in my experience they work better.
PHIL ANDERSON
Well-Known LVC Member
dont undeestimate the crank sensor
i had a simillar problem a few months ago after i had already replaced the crank sensor , i noticed a bit of oil around the sensor an cleaned it the proble went away it turns out the borg-warner sensor leaked oil internally . so i got a new sensor from ford and have had no more problems . it is not b.s. to say use only ford sensors. also change the cam sensor at the same time they are probably the same age and it may strand you, ask me how i know.
i had a simillar problem a few months ago after i had already replaced the crank sensor , i noticed a bit of oil around the sensor an cleaned it the proble went away it turns out the borg-warner sensor leaked oil internally . so i got a new sensor from ford and have had no more problems . it is not b.s. to say use only ford sensors. also change the cam sensor at the same time they are probably the same age and it may strand you, ask me how i know.
ford nut
Local nut case
Listen here smarty boots.
You know what I'm saying.
Its making the cats stink and giving a gas smell as it pukes out fuel it cant mix.
But what the hell .....tear off the intake before you take the time to look for other vac leaks.
Its a easy job :shifty:
Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
I :q:q:q:qin love this place
ford nut
Local nut case
I did but my ex is pulling my chain today.You must have decided to not read the rest of my post. Douche.
JK
But still.
So why not pull yours....smartass.
I'm pulling my pud, does that count?I did but my ex is pulling my chain today.
So why not pull yours....smartass.
94m5
Dmaup's Daddy
I'm going way back to my automotive diag classes here, but.....
Technically Bill, the oxygen sensors don't "read" oxygen levels. It reads the temperature of the exahust, and sends the information back to the computer as a voltage signal based on internal resistance.
Really it's a fancy overpriced thermocouple.
Technically Bill, the oxygen sensors don't "read" oxygen levels. It reads the temperature of the exahust, and sends the information back to the computer as a voltage signal based on internal resistance.
Really it's a fancy overpriced thermocouple.
Like I always say, nice to learn something new.
See when writing a tune on my car I have a taRget A/F ratio in my fuel table that is in lambda. Its part of the computers learning code to adjust to whatever I set it at based on load. That function uses data aquired from the front O2 sensors and I just assumed it was based on actuall air count and not temperature change. I always thought the heat in heated O2 sensors was so they could sample the air better. Didn't reaLize their opperation was similar to a MAF.
Stupi question then, does my wideband function the same way?
Sapperfire
Dedicated LVC Member
Crybaby
94m5
Dmaup's Daddy
Afaik, it would just be an even fancier, more over priced thermocouple. (has a greater range).
The heater is there to get the sensor up to temp quicker.
The heater is there to get the sensor up to temp quicker.
MediumD
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm going off a gut feeling here, but it doesn't seem like exhaust gas temp directly correlates to oxygen levels...
Ah, here we go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor#Zirconia_sensor
94m5
Dmaup's Daddy
Hrm, this is perplexing.
"In Bosch Premium Thimble Type Oxygen Sensors, the zirconium ceramic thimble projects into the exhaust system. The oxygen sensor's ceramic element becomes electrically conductive at high temperature. Then the O2 sensor element sends voltage signals back to your vehicle's engine management system to regulate the fuel to air ratio, for optimum efficiency."
That part about becoming electrically conductive sounds like a description of how a thermocouple works.
You may even be right medium, god knows that I've had some lamebrain ideas before.
"In Bosch Premium Thimble Type Oxygen Sensors, the zirconium ceramic thimble projects into the exhaust system. The oxygen sensor's ceramic element becomes electrically conductive at high temperature. Then the O2 sensor element sends voltage signals back to your vehicle's engine management system to regulate the fuel to air ratio, for optimum efficiency."
That part about becoming electrically conductive sounds like a description of how a thermocouple works.
You may even be right medium, god knows that I've had some lamebrain ideas before.
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Argh.
I was wondering how thermal change could equate to fuel ratio. I understand rich runs cooler then lean but there are too many other variables that will change the exhaust gas temoerature by a large margin for thermal to give an accurate fuel reading.
Damn yous Mike!!!!!
*smacks Mikes hand with a ruler*
JK
I was wondering how thermal change could equate to fuel ratio. I understand rich runs cooler then lean but there are too many other variables that will change the exhaust gas temoerature by a large margin for thermal to give an accurate fuel reading.
Damn yous Mike!!!!!
*smacks Mikes hand with a ruler*
JK
ford nut
Local nut case
Hummm....