255/45/17's and Alignment

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mnmridg

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So I just ordered my new tires, Continental ExtremeContact DW's in 255/45/17 from tire rack. A little bit wider, and just a hair shorter than stock. I'm hoping to improve...Overall grip, which should be easy over the factory Michelins, ride compliance, and noise.

I will get an alignment when I get the tires installed and was wondering if I should stick with the factory specs or alter anyting with the wider tires?

While I will not be autocrossing, I would like to maximize grip, steering resonse, straight line stability and of course, tire wear.

Have any of you guys that have gone with wider tires noticed any strange wear patterns and/or have you altered the alignment from factory specs?
 
mnmridg said:
I will get an alignment when I get the tires installed and was wondering if I should stick with the factory specs or alter anyting with the wider tires?

Have any of you guys that have gone with wider tires noticed any strange wear patterns and/or have you altered the alignment from factory specs?
Click to expand...

Your width of tire has no bearing to alignment specs. It is based strickly on camber and caster alignment. Does not matter if you are using bald or new tires, wider or skinnier. The alignment is measured off the face of the rim with mirrors. So to answer your question no change or altering of vehicle specs are to be used when doing the alignment. The tech will put yr make and model and the computer will do the rest.
 
Raped Ape said:
Your width of tire has no bearing to alignment specs. It is based strickly on camber and caster alignment. Does not matter if you are using bald or new tires, wider or skinnier. The alignment is measured off the face of the rim with mirrors. So to answer your question no change or altering of vehicle specs are to be used when doing the alignment. The tech will put yr make and model and the computer will do the rest.
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The computer will tell the tech where the alignment is compared to the specs. Then the tech needs to make the adjustments.

Toe can be used to alter a vehicle's handling traits. Increased toe-in will reduce oversteer, steady the car and enhance high-speed stability.

Increased toe-out will reduce understeer, free up the car, especially during initial turn-in while entering a corner.

Camber, the leaning in or out of the top of the tire can also effect toe in corners as the suspension compresses. If the camber is factory set to positive, will wider tires accelerate wear on the outside edges, or the opposite for negative, ( I do not know if the LS is set up + or -).

Caster I would not think I would alter.
 
mnmridg said:
The computer will tell the tech where the alignment is compared to the specs. Then the tech needs to make the adjustments.

Toe can be used to alter a vehicle's handling traits. Increased toe-in will reduce oversteer, steady the car and enhance high-speed stability.

Increased toe-out will reduce understeer, free up the car, especially during initial turn-in while entering a corner.

Camber, the leaning in or out of the top of the tire can also effect toe in corners as the suspension compresses. If the camber is factory set to positive, will wider tires accelerate wear on the outside edges, or the opposite for negative, ( I do not know if the LS is set up + or -).

Caster I would not think I would alter.
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That is fine with all you are quoting, and I know what caster camber and toe is, I just forgot to mention toe. But then again the reading are taken off the mirrors which are attached to the rim for all those settings. Alignment machines imaging from the position of the rim, not tire.
 
Position of the rim affects the position of the tire. If Camber is neutral face of rim will be perpendicular to the road surface and the tires contact patch will be even across the road. If the camber is not neutral, the rim face is not perpendicular, and there will be increased pressure on the inside or outside of the tire. If the tire is wider, this pressure is increased.

My question is to those who have installed wider tires, have you noticed adverse tire wear when compared to stock, has anybody altered their camber or toe from factory, and what have been the pro's and con's...?
 
mnmridg;795254My question is to those who have installed wider tires said:
No...No... The camber isn't adjustable without the camber adjusting bolts. That said, with lowering springs and without the bolts the camber will be at -1°, which is at the edge of the factory limit; factory is 0°.

Alignment isn't affected by a wider tire. Keep it at factory specs otherwise you will induce unwanted tire wear.
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LS4me said:
Alignment isn't affected by a wider tire. Keep it at factory specs otherwise you will induce unwanted tire wear.
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Exactly what I was saying. The alignment is read based on rim position, toe, camber and toe of where the rim is sitting, not tire, or width. But it is true if you lower the car with springs, then you may need to get adjustable camber bolts to bring the camber back within tolerance as mentioned by LS4me, there is not much tolerance in camber adjustment in stock form.
 
mnmridg said:
So I just ordered my new tires, Continental ExtremeContact DW's in 255/45/17 from tire rack. A little bit wider, and just a hair shorter than stock. I'm hoping to improve...Overall grip, which should be easy over the factory Michelins, ride compliance, and noise.
Click to expand...

Real interested in hearing how these tires work out for you. Looking at the same type of tire. Also curious to know how those 255's feels squeezed over the factory 17x7.5. Seems like it might be a bit of a stretch considering 8.5" is ideal and continental lists them for 8-9.5" widths. I might be concerned about them pulling back at the corners and giving you less of a contact patch.
 
Kumba said:
Real interested in hearing how these tires work out for you. Looking at the same type of tire. Also curious to know how those 255's feels squeezed over the factory 17x7.5. Seems like it might be a bit of a stretch considering 8.5" is ideal and continental lists them for 8-9.5" widths. I might be concerned about them pulling back at the corners and giving you less of a contact patch.
Click to expand...

I ran 255/45s years ago. I had no problems on the factory wheels.
 
LS4me said:
No...No... The camber isn't adjustable without the camber adjusting bolts. That said, with lowering springs and without the bolts the camber will be at -1°, which is at the edge of the factory limit; factory is 0°.

Alignment isn't affected by a wider tire. Keep it at factory specs otherwise you will induce unwanted tire wear.
Click to expand...

Cool Thanks!
Thats what I wanted to hear!
 
Kumba said:
Real interested in hearing how these tires work out for you. Looking at the same type of tire. Also curious to know how those 255's feels squeezed over the factory 17x7.5. Seems like it might be a bit of a stretch considering 8.5" is ideal and continental lists them for 8-9.5" widths. I might be concerned about them pulling back at the corners and giving you less of a contact patch.
Click to expand...

I'll keep you posted...
 
FASTLLS said:
Just prepare for the tire shop to share a few choice words with you.. :lol:

They are "fun" for them to get on but they will work just fine
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Nothing an extra $20 thrown at the tire tech won't fix I'm sure. :)

Yeah, I always had to hear it when I would go up a size. "These aren't OEM recommended tires sir! You could have problems, grow a tail and horns, fire and brimstone raining from the skies, cats and dogs sleeping together, Mass Hysteria! Please sign this waiver, thanks."

My only concern was deforming the tire ending up in a whacky profile or screwing up the tire/rim. PITA just sounds normal to me.
 
Most places around here where I am at will use there charts for up sizing and that is all they will be willing to do, if it ain't on the chart we ain't doing it speech.

But I have a shop that will do anything I say since I pay with cash most of the time.

But if that tire is too wide mm wise, then you most likely will experience tire roll over on its sidewall from cornering harsh or quick.
 
Tire Rack had to call and get verification that I had selected the right tire before they would release the tires...
 
mnmridg said:
Tire Rack had to call and get verification that I had selected the right tire before they would release the tires...
Click to expand...

I'm just going to wait for a postback on this one. I want to see some pics of the tire squeezed on the rim and how it sits on the car. If it doesn't look good, I'll just go with 245/45r17's like I originally planned. I'm just so over and done with these Michelin's that it's getting hard to wait. :)
 
Finally got them installed last night, they went on the factory rims with no problem.

But... um... WOW!!

The 255's Continental's measure 9.75" acr0ss the tread, where the factory Michelins measure 8.25".

Quite a bit fatter. Looks are much more beefy, old school muscle car like. Ride is smoother and quieter. Steering is a little sharper and at least on mild bends on the interstate here, once the wheel is turned it holds a line with much less correction needed. I need to break them in then turn them loose.

I just washed it but have not Armor -All'd the tires yet. Will take a picture here in a bit...
 
mnmridg said:
not Armor -All'd the tires yet. Will take a picture here in a bit...
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DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!

Armor-All will KILL the rubber in the tires!!!!! Use something like 303 Aerospace Protectant (available at most RV stores). I don't know of a single professional detailer that would recommend Armor-All.
 
Too Late...

Never heard that before, But I did use Black Magic Titanium Wet Gel...


I can never figure this out, How does one (me...) post pictures?????
Whats a URL??
 
Just post your photobucket, flickr, etc link in your post and they'll show up. URL is a website address.
 
Hope the pictures post.

Checked the pressure after I "Dressed" the tires, 36.5 for both on the left side, 37.5 right front and 35.5 right rear. Dropped them all down to 33.0. That should improve the ride even more but I may adjust it up or down depending

IMG_9485.jpg


IMG_9488.jpg


IMG_9493.jpg
 
mnmridg said:
Hope the pictures post.

Checked the pressure after I "Dressed" the tires, 36.5 for both on the left side, 37.5 right front and 35.5 right rear. Dropped them all down to 33.0. That should improve the ride even more but I may adjust it up or down depending
Click to expand...

Been wondering what happened to this! Now I know. Looks like there is either a very small amount of curl at the inner edge of the tire. Doesn't look stressed that much which is good. And yeah, 255mm = ~10.04", so 9.75" is in the neighborhood, and it's all somewhat subjective to how the manufacturer measures it.

Might just skip the whole Jaguar XF "Cygnus" rims and just get the same tires. Also real interested to know how it feels with some spirited driving and/or in the rain. :)
 
Kumba said:
Been wondering what happened to this! Now I know. Looks like there is either a very small amount of curl at the inner edge of the tire. Doesn't look stressed that much which is good. And yeah, 255mm = ~10.04", so 9.75" is in the neighborhood, and it's all somewhat subjective to how the manufacturer measures it.

Might just skip the whole Jaguar XF "Cygnus" rims and just get the same tires. Also real interested to know how it feels with some spirited driving and/or in the rain. :)
Click to expand...

The pictures were taken before I adjusted the pressure down a few pounds, so they actually set a hair flatter.
The 255's on the car actually measure wider than the 255's I have on my Explorer. I realize every manufacturer varies a bit, but the difference was substantially more than 20mm which should have been 3/4" or so.
With pressure adjusted, ride is better still and handling is almost telepathic.
Straight ahead it does want to follow truck grooves, but very little steering wheel angle is needed to steer around a bend, and no mid corner adjustments are needed.

Very impressed with these tires for the price.

Granted I have only put 100 miles on, almost all interstate, but mpg has dropped from 19.8 to 19.7. A function a drag from higher drag due to increased widtj as well as increased friction of the softer compound.
 
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