2007 Jaguar STR Brakes Confirmed

Lincoln LS

  1. Kumba

    Kumba Dedicated LVC Member

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    Anyways, I still think the upgrade is great. Got plans to do it myself and will start collecting parts in the garage (again).

    I am just trying to make sure no one spends $1000 with the wrong expectations. I've never once commented about the looks or bragging rights. That's all up to you and what floats your boat. I just don't want someone doing this upgrade thinking they will knock 50-feet off their stopping distance. Even with the stock LS brakes and tires an M5 only stops 14 feet shorter at 70mph. That's 1 car length. And the difference gets even smaller the slower you go.
     
  2. LS4me

    LS4me Dedicated LVC Member

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    IIRC, the Stoptech kit reduced stopping distance by a whopping 5' over stock. It WILL reduce fade considerably. IMHO, unless the LS is tracked regularly this change just helps the looks. The big complaint about the LSes brakes is the pedal feel, not stopping distance.
     
  3. 05 LS8

    05 LS8 Dedicated LVC Member

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    Back to locking up brakes i see.

    Thank you! Now, we are agreeing!!

    I do have high performance tires on my car and if i was going to upgrade to larger brakes, it would improve the stopping distance.

    Instead of saying (not necessarly you) larger brakes do not improve stopping power, which is a wrong statment, it can be said larger brakes do improve it with the right tires.



    Ok good! You should understand what i mean then, since we have both driven the same cars.
    How would you compare the STR or the XF to the LS under normal driving conditions?

    My experience? When i touched the brake pedal in the XF, the car actually stopped where i want it to. Where the LS takes extra second or two to actually stop.

    I understand where you are coming from and what you mean. But, you have to look at the larger picture.
    You even said it in your post above that larger brakes translate into the car feeling better, which means stopping better, on the dime as they say.
     
  4. dwiggy

    dwiggy Active LVC Member

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    Thanks for the props. My goal is to answer as many unanswered questions about one of the most underrated but well engineered cars out there.
     
  5. BlackLS06

    BlackLS06 Dedicated LVC Member

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    I can see the look on the techs faces at the stealership when you come in for service and they see the big ass brakes....:confused:.
     
  6. 2002_lincolnLS

    2002_lincolnLS Custom User Title

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    it would be funny if you had them do the brake pads for you, just for the fun factor of them going, well the pads we have for an LS don't look like these....
     
  7. 1LoudLS

    1LoudLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    well that is the exact point where you find out at what point your tires are not good enough, so yeah, i believe that is the easiest factor to pay attention to when you dont have a test track with all the goodies that the dudes at motor trend have at their disposal.

    now if your talking about feel, thats a horse of a different color, feel is subjective, performance is quantitative. i have agreed that this would make a difference in feel no matter what the tires. and i do think these would make a nice difference in actual performance, as long as all of the other factors are also considered. you already have great rubber, so this would be a great upgrade for you. i just want to make sure that if any of the young guns on here that might not know any better to go out and drop this kind of coin expecting the sh!tty braking on his car to be fixed when the real root of his problem could be that he is cheaping out on tires.
     
  8. TooManyToys

    TooManyToys Well-Known LVC Member

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    ...
     
  9. TooManyToys

    TooManyToys Well-Known LVC Member

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    The pedal issue is an issue with the tapered wear of the pads that develop because of the two different sized pistons used in the front calipers. Many people notice a softer pedal travel by 25% of the front pads wear life.
     
  10. n8bachelor

    n8bachelor Dedicated LVC Member

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    Toys: I am an Engineer and love a good graph or two. I agree with most of what you have stated: Tires, brakes, suspension, and driver all play into the final stopping distance of a given vehicle. Increase the performance of any one of these items and you can increase the overall braking performance of the vehicle (not necessarily stopping distance).

    As you may know, increasing the unsprung weight (rotating mass) of the wheels/tires/brakes alone will have a negative affect on stopping distance. This is generally offset by the increase in friction area of the larger size tires (recall that drag slicks are very wide) but not always. While friction force is a function of pressure and frictional coefficient, there can be no dispute that the larger area of wide, slick tires has an advantage over smaller, similarly slick tires even though the sum of pressure and area is the same. I recall several tests of large new SUVs where the factory wheels were replaced with larger, heavier ones (using the same width & type of tires) produced longer stopping distances. In addition to the weight of the wheels, the inertial moment (I) was also increased by moving more of the weight to the outside of the rotating wheel. The brake must overcome the weight of the vehicle in addition to the inertia of the rotating mass. The effect was exaggerated by multiple, frequent stopping events due to the FACT of brake fade.

    It stands to reason that an increase in rotor size alone with all other elements remaining constant (rotating mass and brake pads specifically) would produce NO decrease in distanced distance of a single stopping event. It is the combination of many factors that determine stopping distance, not the least of which is the material characteristics of the brake elements. Larger rotors AND pads will produce a shorter stopping distance (maximum stopping force of the tire can be reached faster with the larger brake elements), all other things remaining equal. Keep in mind that a non-ABS stop can be shorter than a full-on ABS event, theoretically.

    For someone with 16" tires like me to increase to 18" and larger pads and rotors there would be multiple factors involved so no one element could be pointed as the deciding factor. Lowering the vehicle would also improve the stopping distance of the vehicle by reducing nose dive and subsequent load transfer to the front tires (allowing the rear tires to take on more of the stopping force).

    With all that said.... the OP has done us all a favor by demonstrating this retrofit works with the LS. Yes, it is cosmetic (as many are after with larger wheels) and yes it does improve stopping distance (all other things being equal). The upgrade is very welcome.
    Cheers :Beer
     
  11. Kumba

    Kumba Dedicated LVC Member

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    This is why I only run an 18" rim. Big enough to fit over big brakes while being smaller to limit the unsprung weight and rotational inertia. This also lets me run a higher-profile tire which acts as an extension of the suspension absorbing and dampening small road changes. Reducing the unsprung weight also allow the suspension to react quicker as well.

    For the extra time it takes the pedal to travel to the skid point of the tires you might shave 2-3 feet off the stopping distance at high speed. That gap closes the slower you are going. At 70 mph a 0.2 second reaction time is something like 20 feet. It is also not a universal thing that the pedal will engage firmer at the top. That gets into the whole pedal feel thing and people have all their own subjective standards to that. I know some people who like the pedal to firm up half-way through the travel so that they can get better feathering on the brakes. I would be one of those people. I don't want a big initial bite or an overly aggressive braking setup because sudden changes to the car cause a lot of weight transfer which can unstable it. So I like the pedal to be lighter at the top and to start getting firm about a third of the way down and to start getting to my skid point about half way through the travel. I also know of guys who will disconnect the booster and pull the ABS fuse making the pedal as hard as can be so they get more feedback from the wheels. Plus, once you get into the ABS you are increasing the stopping distance anyway due to the releasing of the calipers to prevent skidding.

    Never once disagreed with that :)


    My complaint with the stock brakes on my LS was the inconsistency I felt in the pedal. I would get engagement then the pedal would sink a little. I would also start running into fade going around a track. The pedal feel really didn't become consistent for me until I put the stainless braided lines on. Once I did that it was predictable. Changing to Akebono Euro pads also gave me the rest of the feel I was looking for.
     
  12. dwiggy

    dwiggy Active LVC Member

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    Last comment...

    You know if you guys want larger brakes under those factory 17"s you could always do the 320MM on the front like K. and then put the STR's on the rears...

    Just saying. That would be a really Cheap upgrade over stock.


    Plus, these brakes rock!
     
  13. mlara1129

    mlara1129 Dedicated LVC Member

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    awesome! Again thanks so much for this, Dwiggy.

    I know you don't seem like the "take many pics" kinda guy, but please more pics!
     
  14. dwiggy

    dwiggy Active LVC Member

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    Some Pics...

    I'm not a great photographer...

    Leftrear.jpg

    LeftFront.jpg

    LeftCLose.jpg

    Back.jpg

    rightrear.jpg

    rightfront.jpg

    Console.jpg

    Leftrear.jpg

    LeftFront.jpg

    LeftCLose.jpg

    Back.jpg

    rightrear.jpg

    rightfront.jpg

    Console.jpg
     
  15. Elemino

    Elemino Dedicated LVC Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong guys... but isn't the reason for having bigger brakes to have the ability to apply more braking with less force? (among the many other benefits)...

    I mean, the brakes on a civic could likely lock up the wheels on my Navigator, but that doesn't mean they're the best ones for it...

    Why are there so many ppl even arguing about this? Better brakes are better.. period. Add some wider tires, get some more rubber on the ground, and call it a day.
     
  16. 1LoudLS

    1LoudLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    No, they wouldn't even come close to locking them up, let alone stop the truck from 60 mph in under a mile and a half.
     
  17. dwiggy

    dwiggy Active LVC Member

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    LMAO!! You guys are funny!

    These brakes still kick @$$!!!

    Peace!
     
  18. tbird6

    tbird6 LVC Member

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    Great job! A few errors about the STR in this thread. I have a 2005 STR and a 2003 LS V-8 sport. It is amazing how much stuff is the same or very close!!

    The STR came out in 2003. Only had the 4.2L super charged V-8. The 2003-2005 cars had the best equipment with the great fixed caliper Brembo 4 piston brakes up front. As with the LS Jaguar (Ford) started to decontent the cars as production started winding down. The rear brakes were 2 piston with a separate caliper for the E-brake. Has the same electric parking brake motor as the LS.

    The 2006-2008 STR (there were no 2009 STR's) went back down to a more common floating caliper design very similar to the stock LS setup. It was a cost cutting measure. No seperate parking caliper on the rear.

    Most definitely use the 2006-2008 STR brake setup if upgrading the LS. The Brembo's will be a whole bunch more expensive to do. Not a bolt on deal!!
    .
    .
    .
     
  19. dwiggy

    dwiggy Active LVC Member

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    I am not so sure about this statement...

    A couple of pirated rear caliper pictures:

    rearrear.jpg

    rearfront.jpg

    It looks like anyone is capable of making misguided statements. Even the people on this forum who don't spend thousands of dollars and countless hours modifying their cars only to share all of that useful information with the rest of us.

    rearrear.jpg

    rearfront.jpg
     
  20. HyeLifeLS

    HyeLifeLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    I might be doing this upgrade for my fronts as i am in need of new brakes. OP Any updates? Do you still like the brakes?

    I have the S-type R wheels already so might as well get the brakes too.
     
  21. dwiggy

    dwiggy Active LVC Member

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    Do the upgrade. These brakes work perfectly on the car.

    I would suggest the EBC Red Stuff pads. I have these pads and they are excellent.

    After driving a few miles I had a small screeching noise which required me to flatten the backing plates more. They were touching the rotors slightly. This is a very easy job.

    Now, I'm just being extraneous here. The Gen I STR wheels are really close to the front calipers. They don't touch but if you have Gen I STR wheels be aware that they are extremely close.

    Now to the fun stuff...

    Stock LS:
    60-0 braking distance : 130 ft
    Curb Weight : 3755 lbs
    http://www.modernracer.com/lincolnlsv8.html

    2010 Jaguar XKR (Same Brakes)
    60-0 braking distance : 111 ft
    Curb Weight : 3,968
    http://www.edmunds.com/jaguar/xk/2010/road-test-specs.html

    Drop a couple hundred pounds off of the XKR's weight and the stopping distance will probably lose a couple of feet.

    I couldn't find an apples-to-apples (same-source) brake test for the Jaguar and the Lincoln but you get the point.

    Hope this helps!
     
  22. M4rk

    M4rk Dedicated LVC Member

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    Tires. High-perf, sticky, wide-ass tires, vs narrow all-seasons on the LS.
     
  23. 05 LS8

    05 LS8 Dedicated LVC Member

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    Mark's points are very valid.

    Not to appear very pugnacious, there is much more to stopping power/brake performance than just calipers. But, Jaguar's brakes being the in the industry, i am sure, the upgrade will significantly improve the braking on the DEW 98 platform.

    Also, i wouldn't go with the posted numbers, they aren't accurate.

    NA XF 60-0 is 107ft. A lighter, more agile XKR with bigger brakes along with stiffer supportive suspension can't possibly take longer to stop.
    XJSC is equipped with the same brakes as the XKR i believe and it being much heavier, it's 60-0 is 103ft.
     
  24. HyeLifeLS

    HyeLifeLS Dedicated LVC Member

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    [QUOTE=dwiggy;2037274999]Do the upgrade. These brakes work perfectly on the car.

    I would suggest the EBC Red Stuff pads. I have these pads and they are excellent.

    After driving a few miles I had a small screeching noise which required me to flatten the backing plates more. They were touching the rotors slightly. This is a very easy job.

    Now, I'm just being extraneous here. The Gen I STR wheels are really close to the front calipers. They don't touch but if you have Gen I STR wheels be aware that they are extremely close.

    Now to the fun stuff...

    Stock LS:
    60-0 braking distance : 130 ft
    Curb Weight : 3755 lbs
    http://www.modernracer.com/lincolnlsv8.html

    2010 Jaguar XKR (Same Brakes)
    60-0 braking distance : 111 ft
    Curb Weight : 3,968
    http://www.edmunds.com/jaguar/xk/2010/road-test-specs.html

    Drop a couple hundred pounds off of the XKR's weight and the stopping distance will probably lose a couple of feet.

    I couldn't find an apples-to-apples (same-source) brake test for the Jaguar and the Lincoln but you get the point.

    Hope this helps![/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the reply. I will see how money goes and will try to get em.
     
  25. mlara1129

    mlara1129 Dedicated LVC Member

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    I'm going do this mod just for the looks. Hate how small the LS brakes look with bigger wheels, especially when I was rocking my Sentas...

    and hey if performance improves, or at least the pedal feel is better, that'll just be a plus for me.


    Dwiggy, any more pics, man?!
     

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