04 Ls .. ETC fail mode

joegr said:
Every misfire sends some raw gasoline into the converters. This gasoline then burns inside the converters. (The surfaces inside the converters are hot enough to ignite the gasoline.) Burning gasoline inside the converters makes them even hotter, too hot. This excess heat causes some of the passage ways inside the converter to melt shut. Eventually, so many are melted together that the converter is too clogged to let all the exhaust gases go through.
That's the main issue, but there are other causes of failure too.
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when that happens, where does the exhaust gases go after that happens ?

Would you smell gas fumes inside the car at all ?? Reason i ask is, not all the time, but on a rare occcasion, I do smell gas inside the car.. e.i. like after I hit the gas pedel to get up an go..
 
and trust me, you dont want to have to pay for a new cat (catalytic converter), there not cheap!
 
joegr said:
The fact that there was a code for a misfire pretty much seals it, I think.
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i agree, i dont think that the car would read a misfire if the TB was too hot and defective it would just go into fail safe . but a misfire bad enough to throw a code (it has to be a pretty bad misfire for the computer to catch it) could emit enough RF interference to get picked up by the computer to think the the TB was the problem.

either way, the car is going to need to be looked at, and hopefully the dealer knows enough to be able to tell the difference in problems
 
Asialee said:
when that happens, where does the exhaust gases go after that happens ?

Would you smell gas fumes inside the car at all ?? Reason i ask is, not all the time, but on a rare occcasion, I do smell gas inside the car.. e.i. like after I hit the gas pedel to get up an go..
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The gasoline smell is a symptom of the misfires that you are having.

When the converters clog, the exhaust doesn't go anywhere (well, a little still makes it out the tailpipe, or it wouldn't run at all). Symptoms of clogging cats would be:
Check engine light with code for catalyst low efficiency
Lack of engine power
Engine damage (burnt valves and so on)
 
Phew, so glad i'm not having that problem.. ok another question, As of right now, my CEL is not on, I had a ETC fail mode yesterday, but the CEL didn't come on.. will the dealership still be able to pin point the problem without any codes showing up ? I personaly would think so, but just want to make sure !


I want to say thank you to everyone who has reply'd to my thread :)
 
Asialee said:
Phew, so glad i'm not having that problem.. ok another question, As of right now, my CEL is not on, I had a ETC fail mode yesterday, but the CEL didn't come on.. will the dealership still be able to pin point the problem without any codes showing up ? I personaly would think so, but just want to make sure !


I want to say thank you to everyone who has reply'd to my thread :)
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Yes, in the case of marginal COPs the check engine codes don't do them any good anyway. They have to stress test the coils.

http://www.stangnet.com/images/stories/docs/sn95_TSBs/05-22-08.pdf
 
that's what i was thinking... I'll call the dealership tomorrow and see when I can take my car in.. I will keep you all posted as to what happens !!
 
1LoudLS said:
so you would replace a $600 TB before you would replace a few $50ish coils?
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If you diagnosed the TB as messed up....yes? It was super hot to the touch and clearly overheating. This excess heat caused the occasional bad signal/communication/whatever that caused the ETC modes.

In my case, I had already replaced every coil, and was still having this issue.
 
I'm mad as hel! I've called 5 dealerships this morning and none of them see to agree that it's the coil.. All of em want to say " oh it could be a number of things" Most likely its the TB.. or the sensor.. What is the best way to convince them to start off by checking my coils ??? then go from there !! :mad:
 
Asialee said:
I'm mad as hel! I've called 5 dealerships this morning and none of them see to agree that it's the coil.. All of em want to say " oh it could be a number of things" Most likely its the TB.. or the sensor.. What is the best way to convince them to start off by checking my coils ??? then go from there !! :mad:
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Print out the letter to take with you (http://www.allstatetrucks.com/Recalls/cust satisfaction recalls/07m07/R07M07 dealer bulletin.pdf). Do not mention the throttle body code or the ETC message. Instead, tell them about the misfire symptoms you say you've had. (If they ask you if you had any ETC messages after they pull the stored codes, then say "oh yeah, that did happen once or twice.")
"...not all the time, but on a rare occcasion, I do smell gas inside the car.. e.i. like after I hit the gas pedel to get up an go.."
"I would still have hesitation on acceleration.. and like i said before right before it goes into safe mode, it studders like i have really sh!tty gas so to speak lol "

Just play up that stuff.
 
pagluy said:
If you diagnosed the TB as messed up....yes? It was super hot to the touch and clearly overheating. This excess heat caused the occasional bad signal/communication/whatever that caused the ETC modes.

In my case, I had already replaced every coil, and was still having this issue.
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i just think that diagnosing the throttle body just by touch will be a bit tricky. doesn't the TB run engine coolant through it? if so whats the operating temp of the motor 190 degrees or so right? well when i put my <100 degree hands on a piece of metal that is almost twice the temp of my hand then of course its gonna feel VERY hot

i just went and put my hand on my working fine TB after my car has been sitting parked for a little over an hour and its still damn hot to the touch, so you will need a slightly better test then the super hot to the touch test to convince me thats the problem

im not saying that the TB isnt his problem for sure, but its a lot more common to have coil issues that TB issues, especially since there is a known problem where the car misidentify a coil problem as a ETC issue.

but we can sit here and guess all day what his problem is, the only way that it is gonna get fixed is to take it in and have it checked over properly(which a lot of dealerships seem to have a problem doing)
 
Just drove my car ah 7 miles round trip to my local wally world, and coming home, driving at 30 mph.. wait for it....... ETC failmode .

I agree with Loud here, many dealers don't know how to properly check over the car.. I have a appointment on Tuesday morning to have it checked out.. Please wish me luck !!


for the record: I'm not a he :)
 
1LoudLS said:
you will need a slightly better test then the super hot to the touch test to convince me thats the problem
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Good thing noone here is trying to convince you of anything. My mechanic > dumbass internet opinions anyday of the week.

What have you got to prove? Are you really claiming no TB ever goes bad on the LS? That all of them are mis-diagnosed coils?? Really???

(p.s. that isn't an actual question- I'm calling you retarded, so don't answer that)
 
pagluy, since you didn't ask me, I'll respond anyway.

Yes, of course some throttle bodies fail. Clearly, yours was one of them. It seems to be mostly (but not only) 03 and early 04s that fail, so the OP could have a bad TB.

However, I have heard of more than a few TB replaced for this when it wasn't the issue. This was proved out by the new TB having the same symptoms and then finally, the COPs being replaced and the TB problems going away.

I have also helped a coworker with this fault where two of the three shops he went to wanted to replace the TB and the gas pedal assembly. (The third shop wanted to replace the catalytic converters - because they didn't even understand the concept of electronic limited power mode.) I determined it to be COPs and found a couple to definitely have problems. He replaced all the COPs, and the TB codes never came back.

The OP here has clear symptoms of misfires. We all know that the COPs will and do fail sooner or later on just about all LSes. It stands to reason that the OP needs their COPs replaced. It's even better that this will be done at no expense to the OP.
Once the OP completes this free step, their car will run better no matter what. After that, if the TB problem comes back, the OP can get the TB (that rarely fails) replaced. The OP won't have done anything that didn't need to be done anyway.

In short:

Replace the COPs (at no cost) that commonly fail - first.
If that doesn't do it, then replace the TB (at considerable cost) that rarely fails.

Why this argument to do the expensive rare fix before trying the cheap common fix first?
 
Two questions: First one, If it turns out to be the COP, an the dealership end up replacing em, do they replace all the Coils ? Reason i ask is.. under the parts requirements: it clearly says, Call special service center at 1-800-325-**** if more then (2) ignition coils an spark plugs require replacement.

#2 if it does turn out to be the TB... just so I'll know, how much are we talking, and is it easy to replace ? Could i just buy the part and have my uncle try an do it himself ? Or is it a pain in the As@ job to do :confused:

Reason I ask is, what happens if i fix per say coil #4 this week and later down the road it happens again, will they still uphold this warranty ?
 
joegr said:
Why this argument to do the expensive rare fix before trying the cheap common fix first?
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Joe you're a genius and if anyone on this site's info should be trusted it's yours. But I wasn't telling Asialee to replace the TB, but that it could be the issue causing her ETC mode as well, so just be aware.

Asia regarding if you have to replace the TB, I think it is a job your uncle could do. From what I understand you just swap out the old part for the new, and it's sitting on top of the engine. I don't remember the price - I want to say it was around $400.
 
I think I got mine for 350. Easy swao to, save the money and if it is that install yourself, or your uncle. Dealer will want to charge you way too much to swap, but can't blame them if people pay it that dont know how to do it.
 
pagluy said:
Good thing noone here is trying to convince you of anything. My mechanic > dumbass internet opinions anyday of the week
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and what makes YOUR internet opinions any better than mine?

pagluy said:
What have you got to prove? Are you really claiming no TB ever goes bad on the LS? That all of them are mis-diagnosed coils?? Really???
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where did i sat that no TB ever goes bad, all i said was that the car mis-diagnoses the problem due to RF interference, and it sounds exactly like coils to me, and since the dealer has to take care of that for the price of "on the house" why would you not have this looked in to first before spending $400+ on some thing that may not fix anything?

pagluy said:
(p.s. that isn't an actual question- I'm calling you retarded, so don't answer that)
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well since im retarded i'll answer that anyway. Is that how adults are supposed to act, you resorted to name calling, because your ideas where challenged (with good reason), and instead of backing your diarrhea of the mouth up with reasons or information just because you where the "one guy" that didn't have coil problems and instead of having them tested properly you just replaced them and now your just mad at everyone else. yea, way to be just another one of those internet tough guys, so the real question is what do you have to prove?

joegr said:
Why this argument to do the expensive rare fix before trying the cheap common fix first?
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this is the exact same reason that i made my suggestions, which, for the record are just that, SUGGESTIONS
also for the record, my suggestions or dumb@ss internet opinions have help out quite a few people here, so i will continue to give them, and they can be listened to or not, its not my car or my money, so do what ever with this info

pagluy said:
Joe you're a genius and if anyone on this site's info should be trusted it's yours.
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oh ok, if i say it, im a retard with dumb@ss internet opinions, but Joe says it, he a genius and must be listened to.

Asialee said:
for the record: I'm not a he :)
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thats cool, if im the one that said HE, then i'm sorry, force of habit, its not too often that we get a female on here with such a good taste in automobiles.
 
guys I wanted to show you a pic of my first Ls.. I had a 03 got rid of it due to you'll never guess.. ETC failmode.. that was almost 3 years ago, at the time i took it 3 dealerships and got the run around.. So i decided to trade it in for the one i have now, and look where i'm at today :shifty:.... To be honest, i miss my old one, The color was nothing i've ever seen before

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2036007
 
One last request here (hopefully) Could someone please post a picture of the area where the TB is located on the motor.. kinda give me a idea where to find it, also dumb question here, is the Tb( throttle body) same thing as the sensor ? thanks everyone, I truly appreciate all the information you've given me so far !!
 
Asialee said:
One last request here (hopefully) Could someone please post a picture of the area where the TB is located on the motor.. kinda give me a idea where to find it, also dumb question here, is the Tb( throttle body) same thing as the sensor ? thanks everyone, I truly appreciate all the information you've given me so far !!
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I don't have a picture handy. Follow the air hose from the engine air filter box back to the engine. The throttle body is that thing between it and the intake manifold. While it has a sensor or two on it, it is far more than a sensor. It controls the air into the engine.

Here a drawing of it, as well as replacement instructions.
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x34004.htm~gen~ref.htm
 
that was a nice looking machine you had there!


basically you can find the TB by starting at the air box (where you change the air filter) and follow it up the plastic intake tube, its the first thing made of metal(other than any clamps)that you will run in to on your way toward the motor, its also just under the big plastic motor cover right in the front of the engine
 
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