500+ HP rear Axles?

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tijoe

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Has anyone made or have fabricated a set of heavy duty rear CV Axles for their LS?

What is the maximum Power and torque the stock axles can take before you damage them. (Use will be mainly track, autocross, and street, not drag - but wheel hop on corners is a concern.)

I'm going to put in a Mark VIII differential into my car and will be purchasing a Torsen T2R LSD. I have the opportunity to go to 31 spline carrier shafts. I can have a custom set made by The Driveshaft Shop for $1,500 to $2,000, but that seems way too expensive for a pair of axles.

Has anyone mixed and matched the 31 spline Cobra Carrier CV axle with a custom axles shaft to make the set more affordable?

Thanks.
 
tijoe said:
Has anyone made or have fabricated a set of heavy duty rear CV Axles for their LS?

What is the maximum Power and torque the stock axles can take before you damage them. (Use will be mainly track, autocross, and street, not drag - but wheel hop on corners is a concern.)

I'm going to put in a Mark VIII differential into my car and will be purchasing a Torsen T2R LSD. I have the opportunity to go to 31 spline carrier shafts. I can have a custom set made by The Driveshaft Shop for $1,500 to $2,000, but that seems way too expensive for a pair of axles.

Has anyone mixed and matched the 31 spline Cobra Carrier CV axle with a custom axles shaft to make the set more affordable?

Thanks.
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If you want a track car you bought the wrong car. Go get a Mustang and modify the crap out of it for waaaaaayyyyy less money!
 
LS4me said:
If you want a track car you bought the wrong car. Go get a Mustang and modify the crap out of it for waaaaaayyyyy less money!
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THis...

You can buy a autocross ready fox body for the amount of money you are trying to put into the rear end of your LS, let alone all the other **** you'll break
 
I would agree that this is the wrong car to be competitive in and definitely the wrong car to be cost-efficient with. Too heavy, too little power, too little aftermarket, etc. Other then that it should be a fun car to track. I enjoy mine when I go auto-x and that's the name of the game.

Considering the gen. 2 S-Type R was pushing around 400hp you have that to work with at least. The axle shafts were the same on the gen2 regular and STR. The question becomes if the Gen1 axle shafts were any significant means weaker. I'm guessing they are about the same. The leap from 400 to 500 is pretty big though. I would say try it with the understand that it could break off and beat the hell out of the underside of the car.

There is a guy that runs his LS for landspeed records, might want to ask him what he's pushing and how the CV axles have held up.
 
I installed a 2010 Camaro LS3 engine with a TR6060 6-speed into a 2000 S-type. Presently around 430 HP, with future plans for 550 to 600HP.
I posted on this forum because more of you modify your LS's than S-type owners and the cars are so similar suspension wise.

The suspension is being upgraded to use 345/30/19 tires in back and 305/30/19 tires on the front.

The car will be a street car, but I want to run it on track days and perhaps autocross it. (In comparison the car will be a bit lighter than 2010 to 2013 Camaros, with equivalent HP, and better handling. So if a Camaro can do well on the track, so will this car.

Putting the car together has been a long slow process, and I want to have an axle set-up that will handle 600 HP, with a lot more torque than a stock 4.2 engine. Since I am already putting a MK8 carrier into the car, I am trying to find the best axle set-up without having to spend $2K.

Any axle ideas?
 
tijoe said:
I installed a 2010 Camaro LS3 engine with a TR6060 6-speed into a 2000 S-type. Presently around 430 HP, with future plans for 550 to 600HP.
I posted on this forum because more of you modify your LS's than S-type owners and the cars are so similar suspension wise.

The suspension is being upgraded to use 345/30/19 tires in back and 305/30/19 tires on the front.

The car will be a street car, but I want to run it on track days and perhaps autocross it. (In comparison the car will be a bit lighter than 2010 to 2013 Camaros, with equivalent HP, and better handling. So if a Camaro can do well on the track, so will this car.

Putting the car together has been a long slow process, and I want to have an axle set-up that will handle 600 HP, with a lot more torque than a stock 4.2 engine. Since I am already putting a MK8 carrier into the car, I am trying to find the best axle set-up without having to spend $2K.

Any axle ideas?
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Well this makes alot more sense..
 
tijoe said:
What is the maximum Power and torque the stock axles can take before you damage them..
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ILLS (an old user who no longer posts here) did heavy mods. In an older post he Identified the LS as being very sturdy with high HP numbers. I can dig up the old post for you if you wish. You can read what those guys said what custom work to the rear end needs to be done. Otherwise, I believe the LS Rear end can handle 500 Horses no problem. But im not a mechanic, I can only tell you what past experienced drivers say..
 
I think your best option will be to just try it and see how it goes. There's been quite a few boosted LS' done without anything special done to the rear.

Worse case scenario, you pop an axle, and have to spend $2K plus whatever the axle beats up before you get it shut down.

Best case scenario, you do nothing other then the 8.8" swap, and keep chugging along.

Long answer short, no, I do not know of any better CV axles then the stockers. Would be interesting to see what people come up with.
 
I think you'll be ok as long as you don't launch it on slicks if you'd just install the '03 and up parts. Ford up'd the axles on the 2nd gens to 31 spline and from another post it looks like an 8.8 traction lok carrier will fit in the 8" housing without issues. A 3.58 stock gearset is probably too high for auto X unless you have a great torque curve on your engine.
 
Ranchero50 said:
I think you'll be ok as long as you don't launch it on slicks if you'd just install the '03 and up parts. Ford up'd the axles on the 2nd gens to 31 spline and from another post it looks like an 8.8 traction lok carrier will fit in the 8" housing without issues. A 3.58 stock gearset is probably too high for auto X unless you have a great torque curve on your engine.
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I believe he's going for the 8.8" conversion for the sole purpose of gear selection and aftermarket parts. First i'm hearing of the second gen axles being stronger. I thought it was just one of those silly changes Ford likes to do.
 
I may be wrong here, but I thought the demise of FASTLS or QWIKLS (the supercharged black one in Austin) was a broken left axle (half shaft?) on freeway entrance that put all the power to the RR and shot him into the divider wall in the middle and totaled it.

Any clarification might be relevant.
 
blwnbyu said:
03 Cobra IRS would be the way to go if you can make it work
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they have a 31 spline carrier if you are going for that. or do you mean the entire IRS set up?

but externally the carriers are no different than the mark viii (aluminium) or tbird and cougar (steel) housings.

if the 2nd gen axles went 31 spline, then you may be able to retain the 2nd gen axles with a 31 spline cobra IRS carrier.
 
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Thanks for the input so far. Hopefully we will come up with a lower cost alternative for stronger axles.

I will be putting in a Mark 8 Aluminum carrier into the car. (Based on the postings on this forum from the guy "Jason" who already did this.) Stock gen 1 rear cover on the Mark 8 lets the carrier bolt directly to the sub frame, then I'll fabricate a new lower cross brace to match up with the Mark 8 front mounts. - Not a difficult fabrication job. Since I will be building up the new parts onto a sub-frame out of the car, it will be easier to to do the conversion. I'll weld on new upper mounts so the front of the carrier is sandwiched between the upper and lower frames. (Lower brace similar to the Kenny Brown carrier support)

I can purchase a new 31 spline Torsen T-2R LSD for about $150 less than a 28 spline T-2R, so it is tempting to go with 31 spline inner axle hubs.

I am presently researching all I can find out about similarities between various rear IRS Ford axle assemblies and other Ford FWD Axles. When I figure out something I'll post my findings.

- It was news to me that Gen II Lincoln LS axles used 31 spline inner splined hubs. Can someone confirm this?

- Does anyone have the total compressed length for an LS Axle? Gen 1 and Gen 2?

- Are all the tripods in the CV joints the same between older and newer axles? Between Cobra or T-Bird Axles?

The gen 1 Lincoln LS carrier I recently purchased arrived today. In the next couple days I will compare the gen 1 LS Carrier to my Gen 1 Jaguar S-type Carrier. If/when a low cost Gen 2 LS and S-type carriers, appear, I will purchase one each as well.

Lastly, as I believe the mentioned in a Gen 2 Carrier post, a Gen 2 S-type carrier has been sent to DTS and they are trying to fit a LSD into the carrier. If this works, there will be another LSD carrier option for the LS and perhaps stronger axle requirements.
 
chris2523 said:
i referenced:

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showpost.php?p=2037215730&postcount=19

and

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showpost.php?p=2037216382&postcount=26

but i can not confirm that they are in fact 31 spline. its just what i've read.
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I just purchased a pair of 2007 LS rear axles off of E-bay, so I will be able to confirm the spline count in less than a week. As far as Gen II S-type rear axles go, I have read that they are 28 spline. It would be interesting if Ford went to 31 spline, but Jaguar stayed with 28 spline. One of the things I want to find out is more about the tripod bearings, if they are all the same on gen 1, gen 2, Cobra, and Explorer axles. I get the feeling that there are only a couple tripod bearing CV sizes used by Ford.
 
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The reason that Gen1 and Gen2 axles are different is because the Gen2 diff was a different design that shifted it to one side in the car making the axles different lengths than Gen1s. I can't say and can't imagine why the Gen2 would be 31 spline but I have never touched a Gen 2 diff other than looking at it. The Gen1 cover and axles work with the 8.8 perfect, 26k on my set-up.


BTW. I'm Jason.
 
tijoe said:
I just purchased a pair of 2007 LS rear axles off of E-bay, so I will be able to confirm the spline count in less than a week. As far as Gen II S-type rear axles go, I have read that they are 28 spline. It would be interesting if Ford went to 31 spline, but Jaguar stayed with 28 spline. One of the things I want to find out is more about the tripod bearings, if they are all the same on gen 1, gen 2, Cobra, and Explorer axles. I get the feeling that there are only a couple tripod bearing CV sizes used by Ford.
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Interesting. The LAST LS was made 4/3/2006 as a 2006 model.
 
What I would like to see, and will try to do in the near future, is associate P/Ns and verbal descriptions to this image I found on the internet, that shows all the parts used on a Ford IRS axle.

shaft.jpg
 
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tijoe said:
What I would like to see, and will try to do in the near future, is associate P/Ns and verbal descriptions to this image I found on the internet, that shows all the parts used on a Ford IRS axle.
Click to expand...

Seems to be missing the tripod bearing on the inner joint.
 
Ranchero50 said:
I think you'll be ok as long as you don't launch it on slicks if you'd just install the '03 and up parts. Ford up'd the axles on the 2nd gens to 31 spline and from another post it looks like an 8.8 traction lok carrier will fit in the 8" housing without issues. A 3.58 stock gearset is probably too high for auto X unless you have a great torque curve on your engine.
Click to expand...

tijoe said:
- It was news to me that Gen II Lincoln LS axles used 31 spline inner splined hubs. Can someone confirm this?
Click to expand...

Gen 2's are 28 spline, I just counted mine. 8.8 trac-loks will only fit in a gen 1 housing.
 
RodLS said:
Gen 2's are 28 spline, I just counted mine. 8.8 trac-loks will only fit in a gen 1 housing.
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Its been a while since I looked into this so I could be mistaken, but I thought gen 2 is 31 spline. Gen 1 is 28 spline. Perhaps someone before you changed something.

I think you're correct about trac loc not fitting gen 2. This is why some people put a gen 1 carrier in which then meant they then needed gen 1 axles. Sadly you can't even buy a 28 spline t-loc new anymore (I got one of the last ones) to my knowledge so you have to buy used and rebuild it.
 
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