really cause kenne bell the people that design and build the s/c tell me different. They tell me that there is only one reason for the 2.2L to burn oil- bad internal seals. The 2 causes for internals seal damage are 1-too much boost and 2-hot air intake from an exposed filter. So i'm pretty sure i'll listen to the people who designed and built the product.
Air intake
- Thread starter lsc8
- Start date
really cause kenne bell the people that design and build the s/c tell me different. They tell me that there is only one reason for the 2.2L to burn oil- bad internal seals. The 2 causes for internals seal damage are 1-too much boost and 2-hot air intake from an exposed filter. So i'm pretty sure i'll listen to the people who designed and built the product.
I understand what your saying about the cai not being better than the stock set up, but i don't even have the stock set up. My filter is just sitting in the hot engine bay.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm going to agree with Tommy on the fact that an air temp difference isn't going to change anything as far as seals are concerned... but hell go prove us wrong...
Writing checks, does not make an expert...sorry
Kenne Belle does list "underhood heat" as one of the contributing factors, but it is very VERY far down the list of possible issues.
More common are "overfilling", contaminants and high boost.
I personally feel they are grabbing at a straw here, due to their crappy designed SC seals.
The internal friction inside the blower contributes MORE to heating the air than a exposed filter under the hood of the car.
Hell.. the Shelby comes from Ford with an exposed filter under the hood.
Are they eating up SC seals?....... NOPE.
what you really mean is your "pick and choose" what you listen to, because if you "actually" listened to what the manfactuer and designers said..
you wouldn't have their blower on your car.
Hell they wont even SELL you one if you tell them your gonna put it in a mark 8.
well i'm not trying to egg on an argument, this is what kenne bell's tech team relayed to me and what i'm trying to fix. :
the compressor is engineered to take much cooler air temps - the significantly hotter temps cause the rotors and case to expand beyond what they're supposed to. This excessive expansion alone can cause seals to move out of place enough to leak. It also cause's the rotors to touch each other and the case, once this happens it starts to transfer material and you got a lot of metallic shrapnel thrown around inside the supercharger.
I'm only running 8#'s of boost and the s/c has been a little underfilled as per their instructions. It had to be sent in to be rebuilt and supposedly the hot air was the prob. Regardless I feel the cost and work of building a cai is worth it even if it only may fix the prob. If it happens again at least i'll know that wasn't it. And i hope to hell it doesn't happen again.
the compressor is engineered to take much cooler air temps - the significantly hotter temps cause the rotors and case to expand beyond what they're supposed to. This excessive expansion alone can cause seals to move out of place enough to leak. It also cause's the rotors to touch each other and the case, once this happens it starts to transfer material and you got a lot of metallic shrapnel thrown around inside the supercharger.
I'm only running 8#'s of boost and the s/c has been a little underfilled as per their instructions. It had to be sent in to be rebuilt and supposedly the hot air was the prob. Regardless I feel the cost and work of building a cai is worth it even if it only may fix the prob. If it happens again at least i'll know that wasn't it. And i hope to hell it doesn't happen again.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Wait that's not a good thing?
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
Yeah I'm not buying that BS KB is feeding you. NO freaking way that the 40-50 degrees the hot air intake is causing the damage. BS If that was the case well then if you did get a cold air intake in place then it's all fixed. BS Well then what if you actually run that twin screw up into the rpm's its made to turn. MORE HEAT MORE THAN THE INTAKE ISSUE. KB is feeding you
sh!t. At 8 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Inter coolers only cool the air after the charge is made. Wheres that heat, in the super charger!!!!!
You got a defective Unit!!!!!!!
sh!t. At 8 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Inter coolers only cool the air after the charge is made. Wheres that heat, in the super charger!!!!!
You got a defective Unit!!!!!!!
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
When the seals go again. Soon from the sound of it. I would be talking firmly to KB for a replacement at their cost.
danny_holtermann
Dedicated LVC Member
ya warranty would be the way i go
I honestly believe you are correct.
And IMHO the proximity to the alternator is probably contributing to the heat factor probably more than the exposed filter.
Check the temperature of the alternator after about 30 minutes of driving...
those things get HOT AS F*CK...and look how close the blower snout IS to the alternator.
Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the radiant heat from the alternator is probably MORE than a 20-150 degree swing in IAT.
that statement speaks volumes...
and I also am not trying to "egg on an argument" but.. posting BS tech even if it's provided by the manufactuer isnt' doing the community any service at all.
I'm not saying you are the cause of the BS tech, you are only repeating what you were told by someone you "should be able to trust".. but alas this simply doesnt seem to be the case.
I'm running B heads without an intercooler so i'm not sure what your pointing out to me there. The snout of the s/c wasn't getting as hot as the main body, but i'll take a temp of the alt next time i drive it very far. The snout is actually the exit point for the air though not the intake, so i'm not sure that it's going to have much of an effect on the iat. Kenne bell can SUPPOSEDLY tell exactly whats wrong when they tear them down and i've told you their findings. The first thing they asked me was if I had an open air filter. When i said yes it automatically voids the warranty. So, I'm going to correct the prob regardless and if the seals go out again I should then be able to argue the point with them. When i get it back it shouldn't take long to see if the cai fixes it cause I drove it less than 400 miles before it waxed the seals.
My actual post was to see if anyone had an intake or snorkel system for a cai, not argue this point because i'm in their world now and its really up to them. Driller got me a website and i ordered some piping, although I might just try putting the stock intake behind the hl into the box i've built for the filter first and see what that does. I'll get some temp readings on it and see if it helps. My iat's were 217 degree's on my last dyno run. Kenne bell says that 130 degree's is the max intake temp acceptable before it causes prob for the seals, so right now that's my first goal. Only time will tell if it fixes my prob. Thanks for the help.
My actual post was to see if anyone had an intake or snorkel system for a cai, not argue this point because i'm in their world now and its really up to them. Driller got me a website and i ordered some piping, although I might just try putting the stock intake behind the hl into the box i've built for the filter first and see what that does. I'll get some temp readings on it and see if it helps. My iat's were 217 degree's on my last dyno run. Kenne bell says that 130 degree's is the max intake temp acceptable before it causes prob for the seals, so right now that's my first goal. Only time will tell if it fixes my prob. Thanks for the help.
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
I geuss more than anything I'm just amazed that a 70 degree air temp diff could kill a blower... I mean what about people who live in places like Arizona where ambient temps car be in the 110-120 degree range?
you know thats what i didn't get either, but they say that after the air is run through the s/c it heats and grows exponentially instead of in addition to, and they didn't give me a ratio but lets say 3 times just for example. So ambient temp at a 70 degree difference actually would become 210 degree difference by the time it gets to the end of the s/c and the seals. It could be BS i don't know I've never had the thing apart. I wouldn't think that the tolerances would have to be that extreme either, I would think that if they would just add more clearance to everything it would solve the expansion prob even with sucking in hot air.
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
How could you have over 200 degrees IAT. Is that air under boost or really IAT before the TB. I just don't see how it could be that high. My coolant doesn't even get that hot after a run down the track. Any chance the air intack is placed in the headers.joking
kustomizingkid
Dedicated LVC Member
Time to switch to Mikes kit 
94m5
Dmaup's Daddy
No it's not.
Jeb has a good setup, it just needs a little more finessing to be 100%. He bought the S/C used, so that is another can of worms I don't even want to get into.
I still have NO idea how we can go from him asking a simple question regarding a possible intake setup to route cooler air to his filter, to this pissing match in progress now.
Anyway Jeb,
The one thing I can reccomend is to buy an aluminum intake tube from BBK or some other manufacturing company, and have that ceramic coated. That will shield the incoming air from ANY latent engine heat after the filter.
Mike
Jeb has a good setup, it just needs a little more finessing to be 100%. He bought the S/C used, so that is another can of worms I don't even want to get into.
I still have NO idea how we can go from him asking a simple question regarding a possible intake setup to route cooler air to his filter, to this pissing match in progress now.
Anyway Jeb,
The one thing I can reccomend is to buy an aluminum intake tube from BBK or some other manufacturing company, and have that ceramic coated. That will shield the incoming air from ANY latent engine heat after the filter.
Mike
Yesterday on my ride home from work my IATs were between 118-125 degree's on my SHORT 8 mile ride from the office.
on my N/A mark 8 sitting in traffic I get 130 degree IAT temps.
If KB's SC cant stand up to "normal driving" IAT temps, then there is definately an issue with their SC's.
I'm sure they "asked" you about the open element filter, BECAUSE they can and did void your warranty because of it.
I can assure you the SC itself is getting hotter than 130 degree's, so why would 130 degree's be harmful to it?
Dont get me wrong, I'm not busting your balls, but the CRAP KB is telling you.. is just that.. .CRAP.
If I built a crappy product that wouldn't stand up to the normal rigors of day to day driving...
AND I knew that 90% of the "hot rodders" I sold my product to were using a particular aftermarket item..
I then could easily say "that particular aftermarket item" voids your warranty...
That way I wouldn't have to stand behind nor warranty my crappy product.
AND I knew that 90% of the "hot rodders" I sold my product to were using a particular aftermarket item..
I then could easily say "that particular aftermarket item" voids your warranty...
That way I wouldn't have to stand behind nor warranty my crappy product.
welcome to the wonderful world of the INTERNET.
this is not "lambchops sing along"
we're not gonna swing from someones nuts because they put a blower on their car.
Bad info is bad info... and posting bad info is the same whether your car is NA or your paid 5K to have a blower installed...it's pretty simple Mike, actually.
He is "parroting" bad information.
Like the whole "I dont want to hydrolock" my engine because some guy in a corvette did....
So these IMFAMOUS KB superchargers cannot operate properly with IAT's that I see in my NA car, driving in normal traffic.
KB FTL!
Hell gimme a stock "heaton" atleast they can "stand the heat".
well when you compress air it does get VERY VERY HOT....
That is how the 03-04 cobras and Lightnings can use 200 degree coolant to cool their intake charge.
I understand the dynamics behind it..which makes it even MORE puzzling at what KB told the OP about IAT's.
Granted high IATS are bad, they cause detonation and alot of other BAD things.. but I didn't think the WUSSY KB SC would get hurt by it's own "heating of the air"...that is what makes it so odd.
you'd think a SC manufactuer would KNOW compressing air makes it HOT.
And they'd build their SC's to handle this heat.
Not blame a stupid air filter for the issue.
that makes NO sense.
htrdlincoln98
Dedicated LVC Member
I know the boosted air is hot but what I was ?ing was he referring to the inlet air at the filter is over 200 degrees or after the SC. That makes a huge differrence. I cannt see the IAT at the filter being over 200 degrees. Unless he mounted the filter under the headers. Yesterday I data logged my car @ idle and the IAT hit 108, After 1/2 hour of sitting. Coolant only hit 176 but thats all it goes up to with my current set up. i still dont see how the SC cannt handle the heat no matter the open filter @ only 8 LBS. By no means am I an expert on this issue. How ever Sc are made to turn alot more boost than 8 LBS.
94m5
Dmaup's Daddy
You are right Tommy, But sometimes I feel we go the extreme route in correcting someones post. Thats all.
I agree with the thought about 130 degree IAT being too much. My bone stock VIII will see that on a summer day out here in Colorado. I'm wondering how the S/C was used by the previous owners. I truthfully feel that once the charger is re-built, and he gets the Meth injection installed, his problems will be over.
I agree with the thought about 130 degree IAT being too much. My bone stock VIII will see that on a summer day out here in Colorado. I'm wondering how the S/C was used by the previous owners. I truthfully feel that once the charger is re-built, and he gets the Meth injection installed, his problems will be over.
94m5
Dmaup's Daddy
His IAT sensor is mounted in the lower plenum, AFTER the s/c.