New Exhaust Pics

For $800 you'd hope they would at least remove the biggest restriction in the system. The pipes right after the cats are double walled and limit the size of the exhaust to 1-3/4 or so where it matters the most, right after HOT cats.

I bet it sounds good though ;)

They cut it as close to the after-cat Oxygen sensors as possible.

It does sound awesome! Sometimes I think it sounds better than my Vette's full header/exhaust. I think the 32-valve motor makes better sounds?!

Ken
 
For $800 you'd hope they would at least remove the biggest restriction in the system. The pipes right after the cats are double walled and limit the size of the exhaust to 1-3/4 or so where it matters the most, right after HOT cats.

We have done that in the past and didn't see any difference at all, the length of the "skinny" pipe is so short it is not affected.
 
Stupid question though. Does this kit include everything from cats back or would someone buying still need pipe fitted between the exhaust components?


The kit consists of the LMS XpansionX I or II lifetime ss mufflers and the xx pipes shipped for $349.99.
 
alright, gaining 3 tenths in the 1/4 from just a catback isnt going to happen unless you stock system has a blockage.

and "true duals" doesnt mean a thing if its full of bottlenecks. and you dont need anywhere near 500+ hp to benefit from mandral bends. i have seen great gains on many different cars from going crush to nice mandral bends. F/I doubles these gains. but if you guys want to be sheep and blindly follow, go ahead.

but i will say that system sounds AWESOME in all the vids i have seen. i am just saying why would you pay $800 for something you can get made at any exhaust shop for half the price or less?
 
Uh... I'm a novice specially in exhaust what's the difference between the mandrel and crush?... what exactly is the difference?... why is it better?... just curious
 
alright, gaining 3 tenths in the 1/4 from just a catback isnt going to happen unless you stock system has a blockage.

OK Ken as well as many others did this sytem and gained 3 tenths and 2 mph or better wether you believe it or not.
There are no bottlenecks when your at 2.5 with 281 cubic inch under 300 hp, the factory internal 2 inch pipe in pipe is a bottleneck if anything.

and "true duals" doesnt mean a thing if its full of bottlenecks. and you dont need anywhere near 500+ hp to benefit from mandral bends. i have seen great gains on many different cars from going crush to nice mandral bends. F/I doubles these gains. but if you guys want to be sheep and blindly follow, go ahead.

Again show me the gains you claim from the mandrel bends vs standard bends in an engine making 550 hp and down.

I see the quality and the gains for 11 years of doing these cars so if that's being blind sheep then BBaaaahhhhhhh Bbaaahhhhhhh all the way brother!

300shaun_sheep.jpg

but i will say that system sounds AWESOME in all the vids i have seen. i am just saying why would you pay $800 for something you can get made at any exhaust shop for half the price or less?

YES it does sound bada$$. We spent two years developing this system to do exactly what it does.
But one more time get me an actual quote with lifetime warrantied stainless steel mufflers with tips, 10 year warrantied galvinized heavy gauge 2.5 inch xx pipes hardened steel hangers with poly bushings and 4-5 hours labor plus a ten year warranty on welds, pipes, hangers & workmanship.
Funny how you flip flopped from $150.00 to half the price.
 
i didnt flop at all, i said the piping can be done for 150, 400 for the whole sha-bang with mufflers, x-pipes and so on. and a crush bent 2.5 pipe is no where close to that in the bend.

10whp gain from just a mandral bent downpipe and bigger size cat. 1.6L miata with a greddy turbo kit. (has a crush bent downpipe)
http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22770

and thats just the first thread i saw.
 
Uh... I'm a novice specially in exhaust what's the difference between the mandrel and crush?... what exactly is the difference?... why is it better?... just curious

Its not CRUSH it's standard bend or pressure shoe/die bends.

Mandrel bent pipes maintain the same diameter throughout.
Mandrel bent tubing reduces restrictions by up to 10% compared to the factory or pressure shoe/die bends.

With standard bends in a mild form (which is what we do) the volumetric flow size is the same just the shape is changes slightly. If you think for one minute that mandrel pipe will make a difference on a stock hp Mark VIII then your wayyy off.

pipe-2.jpg


pipe-1.jpg
 
i didnt flop at all, i said the piping can be done for 150, 400 for the whole sha-bang with mufflers, x-pipes and so on. and a crush bent 2.5 pipe is no where close to that in the bend.

Not with ALL the EXACT components I mentioned and the forms of metals used and warranties involved, if true get an independant quote and show us.

10whp gain from just a mandral bent downpipe and bigger size cat. 1.6L miata with a greddy turbo kit. (has a crush bent downpipe)
http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22770

and thats just the first thread i saw.

Again apples and oranges, TURBO buddy boy, HUGE difference, of course there will be a difference with up to 5 times the air speed, were talking natuarally aspirated, keep to the subject.;)
 
Again apples and oranges, TURBO buddy boy, HUGE difference, of course there will be a difference with up to 5 times the air speed, were talking natuarally aspirated, keep to the subject.;)

i am just responding to where you quoted me. and this is a 1.6L motor, not a 4.6 v8
 
Uh... I'm a novice specially in exhaust what's the difference between the mandrel and crush?... what exactly is the difference?... why is it better?... just curious

Mandrel bends the pipe so that it is always round on the corners and smooth flowing. Crush bends as pictured above uses a pipe bender and basically smashes the corners and causes bottlenecks where the piping can get smaller. Basically mandrel is cleaner and if you have high horsepower or a power adder (supercharger/turbo) which flows much more air, then you would see a difference.

Most all the pre made catbacks for mustangs and other cars are mandrel bent. But since we dont have an exhaust option for our cars, we have to settle for the crush bends route. not so bad though. i have them on mine!
 
If you leave the cats on I don't see the non-mandrel bends meaning squat difference.

Of course you can always eliminate the bends. :D

Image015.jpg
 
alright, gaining 3 tenths in the 1/4 from just a catback isnt going to happen unless you stock system has a blockage.

and "true duals" doesnt mean a thing if its full of bottlenecks. and you dont need anywhere near 500+ hp to benefit from mandral bends. i have seen great gains on many different cars from going crush to nice mandral bends. F/I doubles these gains. but if you guys want to be sheep and blindly follow, go ahead.

but i will say that system sounds AWESOME in all the vids i have seen. i am just saying why would you pay $800 for something you can get made at any exhaust shop for half the price or less?

My 1993 did 14.6 stock and 14.3 with exhaust. I'm following my own experience........NOT blindly following anybody?! I first did the 14.3 in front of 10-other Mark VIII owners in 1999........where were you? How is that blindly following? I had one of the few that did 14.6 stock. There are no stock Mark VIII's that ran faster than 14.5 (and only 1 I know of did that), so I had no "exhaust blockage". When I got the exhaust it did 14.3. I never put any other mods on the car in the 11-years I owned it. (Not including a K&N panel filter........if that did anything). I also pulled out the air silencer and cut an opening in the air intake box, but both yeilded nothing. If you really want to, you can go find the 1993 car in a Trenton, NJ junk yard and inspect it to find the only mod i did was the exhaust. I did 100+passes in my 1993 Mark VIII, what is your experience in drag racing Mark VIII's? Not sure why you have a problem with everything I've posted, but I've driven Mark VIII's for 11+years and over 230,000 miles and have been coming to these Mark VIII message boards since the original "Carcus's Land Shark and Mark VIII" website.........do you even know what that was?

Next you are going to tell me my 1993 would have gone 14.2 with a Mandrel exhaust right?

Ken
 
1 of the best purchases ive made for my 96... i love to watch people break their necks trying to see why my car sounds sooo good when im flyin' by

jimscar2.JPG
 
Crush bends are made when a pipe is basically held against a concave piece of iron and pushed and bent around it. Mandrel bends are made by the pipe being held in a series of sliding, rounded clamps that pull and smoothly bend the pipe into shape without the dented 'crush' innner bend. You end up with a near perfect, smooth bend. Its easier to see it in person than explain it.:rolleyes:
 
Smooth, low angled bends are more important than crush or mandrel. On boosted engines especially. A 90 degree bend equals(about) an additional 8ft of piping(in relation to backpressure) Gino put a lot of time and $$$ researching and developing his systems. They're not mandrel but they are for Marks and they show proven gains over stock. Mandrel would make a good 'crush' system only slightly better, nothing you'll ever notice in the drivers seat or the track. Without forced induction this is not an issue. I think we're done here.:eyeroll:
 
just think, you need more than the 10hp at most an exhaust gives you

Ok then, so, if we use your 10hp gain at most as an example, then the mandrel vs crush argument is moot for a relatively stock Mark VIII.
 
Ok then, so, if we use your 10hp gain at most as an example, then the mandrel vs crush argument is moot for a relatively stock Mark VIII.

i completly agree with you there. but its still an $800 exhaust. for that price, i expect i higher quaulity part. just my 2 cents though.

I think we're done here.
i will drink to that :Beer

but atleast we can all agree that it really does sound completly awesome :steering
 
i completly agree with you there. but its still an $800 exhaust. for that price, i expect i higher quaulity part. just my 2 cents though.


i will drink to that :Beer

but atleast we can all agree that it really does sound completly awesome :steering

Again it is very high quality, putting down #'s like that, worth every penny, or should I say "priceless"
 
Were talking Mark VIII's and you use a boosted 4 banger for an example, like I said stick with the subject matter.

Lof'n-L. Go find mommy.

..''two years developing so that this system would do exactly as it does'' .. What, make money? Tell me, what's the point of charging more for an extra X pipe that isn't needed and only adds weight? Oh, making money, duh..

And, Ken, why would you pay 800 on exhaust, on a 'stock' mark viii? If I spend 800 bones on exhaust, it's going to be a modded car. And it's going to be mandrel.

10,000 fools are still 10,000 fools.
 

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