Trump

[cammerfe]

Well said!

KS

 

[shagdrum]

hillary's not president. don't fuckin care. tell a cop who might. hell, tell mueller. i'm not gonna argue either way about her. title of this thread is trump.

I’m so surprised you have zero interest in discussing the double standards you are imposing or in defending your cheap excuse of "going to the proper authorities" on Clinton

Apparently, you missed the point implicit in the comparison that the authorities are corrupt and untrustworthy. As long as they are looking to string up the guy you hate, that is all that matters. Right?

last i checked, russia is still a foreign ENEMY.

Just because the Left and has hard on to MAKE Russia the enemy doesn’t mean they actually ARE the enemy. Apparently you need reminding that progressive political rhetoric is not necessarily truth.

In fact, looking at the tensions between us in the past few years, WE are the aggressors, if anything. Or can you explain the expansion of NATO (or even it’s unnecessary continued existance).

that's more than collusion, it borders on treason.

Put up or shut up. Show me HOW this is anywhere NEAR “treason”. Hell, make the case for it even being collusion. I have given you the relevant laws on collusion, you have (unsurprisingly) failed to connect the dots on that one. As usual you are all bluster and mindless progressive talking points. No substance.

Here is the relevant portion on treason from Article III:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.​

Again, Russia is NOT our enemy. Not yet, despite progressive/Deep State/Neocon efforts to MAKE it such.

You really need to step away from the punch bowl on this. I know you love to let the progressive propagandists do your thinking for you, but they are leading you into VERY dangerous territory. If the Deep State is allowed a veto on elections (which is what they are going for) we cease to be, in any way, a representative system of governance. Just because their interests and yours seem to align for the moment doesn’t mean they always will. Just look at the Iraq War and how they railroaded us into that (or are you supporting that now).

Glenn Greenwald is hardly a Trump fan, but he is one of the few people on the Left who have not only demonstrated an ability to think for themselves, but to see the bigger picture as well:

No matter how much of a threat one regards Trump as being, there really are other major threats to U.S. democracy and important political values. It’s hard, for instance, to imagine any group that has done more harm, and ushered in more evil, than the Bush-era neocons with whom Democrats are now openly aligning. And who has brought more death, and suffering, and tyranny to the world over the last six decades than the U.S. National Security State?


In terms of some of the popular terms that are often thrown around these days – such as “authoritarianism” and “democratic norms” and “U.S. traditions” – it’s hard to imagine many things that would pose a greater threat to all of that than empowering the National Security State (what, before Trump, has long been called the Deep State) to exert precisely the power that is supposed to be reserved exclusively for elected officials. In sum, Trump opponents should be careful of what they wish for, as it might come true.​

And finally, as I have stated numerous times, my sources on this are FAR better than yours. As in, your sources are speculating based on next to no information relative to my sources.

 

[RigsLS]

Just got back from a trip down to SC and back up ... Yup, still tons of back road US roadways littered with poor housing, thugs and vacant employment towns. Despite not having run US loads in over two years, it still to date continues to reminds me of that "Sandford & Son" show. Can really see that "Making America Great Again" plan in action.

Here's the ironic thing about it all. I come down to the Carolina's with a load of manufactured textile product, to only return back up to Canada with a load of raw bulk US cotton ... ain't that a bitch of a Tangerine Terror plan huh?


CONFESSION :: "I did not declare" the found watermelon I took from a readily available pile along HWY US-1 to Lugoff SC." ... it was, however, made in America and very delicious. Free from taxes, tariff and pay duty cash-me-now grabs also.



.

 

[shagdrum]

 

[cammerfe]

Did you find it fun to cut-'n'-paste your usual liberal-progressive horsefeathers?

KS

 

[shagdrum]

told you things will get fun when slater's name comes up.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/lon...nows-he-and-potus-are-going-to-prison-report/

As should be expected by now with all the Trump/Russia hysteria, the Slater story turned out to be a big nothing burger.

The Times says there is no indication that Cohen even replied to Sater’s emails. In any event, the Moscow project was investigated briefly and, the Times says, dropped. The Trump organization has properties in 11 countries, and Russia isn’t one of them. So the story is what? A Russian immigrant who didn’t work for Trump had a vision of making Donald Trump look good (and making himself a lot of money) via a business deal with the Russians, which Trump’s people never followed up on. It’s like a joke with no punch line.​

When it comes to Trump, the Left is unhinged. This is especially true with the Russiagate hysteria. Unless you enjoy making a complete fool of yourself, it is probably best to get out of that Progressive bubble.

 

[cammerfe]

All the lib-pros are desperately looking for someone they can force to lie and bring Trump into things. Next thing you know, they'll be indicting someone for spitting on the sidewalk. Have fun with your wishful thinking.

KS

 

[shagdrum]

and the indictments start.

...For business transactions from 2006 to 2013, with four more transactions in 2014. Basically, when Manafort was closely tied to the Podesta Group and they were working a quid pro quo arrangment between Russia and Hillary's state department and laundering the money involved in such (the Podesta Group is "Company B" in Manafort's indictment).

So yes, the indictments start.

 

[shagdrum]

don't forget the guilty plea already. for lying to the fbi about his russian contacts and timing.

A procedural crime from a nobody with zero influence with nothing to substantiate "collusion".

and this is just the beginning.

Well, that is what you want it to be. Just like Flynn was "just the beginning". Or Slater was "just the beginning"...

and, no, they got manafort right to 2016 and his time to trump.

Go read the ACTUAL INDICTMENT. You clearly haven't done so. ALL the transactions in question were in 2014 or earlier.

Even CNN admits the Manafort charges have nothing to do with the Trump Campaign or the election.

how's that hillary diversion working out?

Why did Tony Podesta leave the Podesta group? Why is he threatening Tucker Carlson for his reporting on him? Why are the Podesta's lawyering up?

 

[heyjewel]

don't forget the guilty plea already. for lying to the fbi about his russian contacts and timing.
and this is just the beginning. and, no, they got manafort right to 2016 and his time to trump.
although trump has alzheimers and can't remember who his campaign manager was.
the snowball just started rolling. how's that hillary diversion working out?

As usual you are wrong. And the hillary thing is going to bring down more than a few lying greedy democrats. BTW are you OK with selling 20% of nuclear bomb material to Russia (who then transfers some to Iran)? What do we get? Well we get next to nothing. Bill and hill got $145 million.

 

[cammerfe]

One characteristic of a liberal/progressive is a belief in his own wonderfulness. And an absolutely frantic hostility for anyone who won't immediately acknowledge it.

KS

 

[heyjewel]

One characteristic of a liberal/progressive is a belief in his own wonderfulness. And an absolutely frantic hostility for anyone who won't immediately acknowledge it.

KS

Another is they get their news and opinion from Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, Steven Colbert, Samantha Bee etc. They consider that multiple sources.

 

[shagdrum]

One characteristic of a liberal/progressive is a belief in his own wonderfulness. And an absolutely frantic hostility for anyone who won't immediately acknowledge it.

And the complete lack of logical consistency or integrity, as hrmwrm consistently demonstrates.

 

[cammerfe]

The worm is correct that there was no export license, but the 20% went to cana-duh anyway and then to... Well, it's no longer in the USA for sure. Some of it ended up in Iran and some of it went to the rooskies and...

KS

 

[jgscott]

Dear Trump supporters,

This is how Watergate went. Muller has already nailed Trump. Its just a matter of time. Mueller has nailed the Collusions, Obstruction of Justice and Trump.

That whole Campaign was dealing with Russian, calling and asking for interference, meeting with everyone of them lying about meetings and talking to Russia about it.

Its as simple as this: They All are getting caught lying, and they will all be charged, and indicted under Federal Law, that they Violated. All the way back to Trump, included. Mueller only had to follow the money trail, banking Transactions. The money trails do not lie.

 

[shagdrum]

Mueller has nailed the Collusions, and Trump.

WHAT evidence of illegal collusion?

That whole Campaign was dealing with Russian, calling and asking for interference, meeting with everyone of them lying about meetings and talking to Russia about it.

Even if all that is true, so what? None of it is illegal. Hillary was doing the exact same thing with the Saudi's....and, via Fusion GPS, with the Russians.

Its as simple as this: They All are getting caught lying

ALL politicians lie...

and they will all be charged, and indicted under Federal Law, that they Violated. All the way back to Trump, included.

Charged under what law? Talking to a foreign entity, oppo research is not illegal.

Mueller only had to follow the money trail, banking Transactions. The money trails do not lie.

Yes, and the money is, if anything, leading back to Clinton, not Trump.

Manafort was indicted for trasactions that happened in 2014 and before (it spells it out in the indictment); long before he was hired by Trump.
Manafort worked alongside the Podesta Group to peddle influence due to their access to the Obama admin; specifically Hillary as Secretary of State.
Tony Podesta ran the Podesta group. His brother is a close confidant, advisor and, ultimately, campaign manager to Hillary Clinton.
The Podesta Group is being investigated by Mueller ("Company B" in Manafort's indictment).
Why did Tony Podesta step down from heading the Podesta group the day of Manafort's indictment?
Why did Tony Podesta's replacement CEO quit yesterday, mere days after Tony's departure as the head of his namesake company?

 

[jgscott]

One question at a time please. Give me your 1st, its to Colluded for me to answer all. I know its complex to Trump Supporters.

PS: Please spare me the go to You Tube Rhetoric, I just want to discuss FACTS. Please.

 

[jgscott]

For you 1st question this?:

It sure looks like there was collusion between the Trump operation and Russia

And This......

Robert Mueller releases information showing Trump campaign tried to collude with Russia

Papadopoulos? Not a Coffee Boy. 1 Connection, Manafort will come fourth with more. Right now hes just holding out for a better deal from the FBI for himself. Before he tells all. Papadopulos been working for FBI since Aug Secretly? Lets see what he got recorded, or emailed when Trump and his people did not know.

Think emails don't swing both way? Think Mueller has not gotten emails, from during the Trump Campaign, No phone calls recorded, no statements? Flynn? Jeff Sessions? (Mueller could indicted Session right now for lying under oath), Cater Page, Trump Jr, all LIED to FBI and Senate on Record. And the list goes on and on. What Russians? The ones you met with, lied about why, and many times.

FYI: Donald Trump July 2016 - “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,”

Requested Russian hack US Servers. For His Campaign? Sure said at Campaign Rally.

/\ COLLUSION. Period.

 

[cammerfe]

Please cite the 'collusion' law.

KS

 

[shagdrum]

1: You are presuming quite a lot by calling me a “Trump supporter”. In fact, I am pretty sure I have said earlier in this thread that I didn’t vote for Trump. However, the downright hysteria on the Left puts anyone interested in truth in the position of defending Trump against bad faith, hatred-driven criticisms.


2: Mother Jones and Vox.com are not, generally speaking, legitimate sources. They both have a pattern of lies and misdirection in favor of the narrative they want to push. This is especially true of Vox.com founder (and Journolist creator) Ezra Klein, who wrote the Vox.com article you linked to. The fact that these are go-to sources suggests a progressive echo chamber you need to escape. And, if “collusion” is the big buzzword, you might wanna check what wikileaks has to say on any source you wanna cite on this matter, as virtually all of them were proven to actively collude with the DNC/Hillary campaign last year in the wikileaks releases, and therefore have a vested interest in perpetuating the Russiagate myth. You say "follow the money", well these sources have their very livelyhood tied up in avoiding the contents of the wikileaks dumps and perpetuating the Russiagate crap. Maybe you should check your assumptions...


3: As to the “facts” you cite, most all of them are nowhere near what you think they are. Only innuendo even connects them to collusion with Russia. Papadopoulos is a low-level campaign figure desperate to create a name for himself whom the email exchanges show no one at a high level in the campaign took seriously. Tons of figures like him in every presidential campaign. At best, “lied” is an extreme overstatement regarding every person you listed. And you really think Trump’s rhetoric in July of 2016 is evidence of anything?

See, this is the problem. Leftists have become absurd conspiracy nuts on the Russia thing. Nevermind that the whole “russiagate” narrative started out as mythmaking to avoid the actual content of the wikileaks, and quickly morphed into a ready made explanation for Hillary’s loss. Ignore that the entire Russiagate narrative has constantly changed to fit the needs to the progressive agenda, while never providing any actual evidence along the way. The ONLY people who don’t see this are Leftists. Everyone outside of the left (and the few free thinkers on the Left) see this charade for what it is.

Oddly enough, the wikileaks emails (which the “russiagate” myth started out as a creation to avoid) shows willfull collusion with the DNC/Hillary Campaign and Mother Jones, Vox.com and a whole host of other “mainstream” sources. But the people who created, perpetuate and benefit from the “russiagate” myth are who we are to look to for honest reporting on the matter?! Interesting that “collusion” with Russia is verboten, but collusion with the media to mislead the public is not worthy of discussion.

It is very telling that progressive nuts can never address the actual CONTENT of the wikileaks documents (even though that content discredits the very sources they cite for “proof”). Nor can they ever actually spell out what “crime” Trump, uniquely, committed. Virtually every charge they level at Trump with regards to Russia can be far better proven in the case of Hillary, Obama or some other Leftist figure/group. If you wanna know what a Leftist is guilty of, just watch what he accuses you of.

So again; what collusion? Specifically, illegal collusion. What law was broken?

And how come you can’t address the Podesta group stuff? It is indisputable that Manafort was working with the Podesta group on behalf of Russian interests when Hillary was Secretary of State. The indictment specifically spells out the transactions they are looking at; ALL were from when the Podesta Group was working with Manafort (well before Trump had anything to do with him). How come you can’t comment on that?

 

[jgscott]

1: You are presuming quite a lot by calling me a “Trump supporter”. In fact, I am pretty sure I have said earlier in this thread that I didn’t vote for Trump. However, the downright hysteria on the Left puts anyone interested in truth in the position of defending Trump against bad faith, hatred-driven criticisms.


2: Mother Jones and Vox.com are not, generally speaking, legitimate sources. They both have a pattern of lies and misdirection in favor of the narrative they want to push. This is especially true of Vox.com founder (and Journolist creator) Ezra Klein, who wrote the Vox.com article you linked to. The fact that these are go-to sources suggests a progressive echo chamber you need to escape. And, if “collusion” is the big buzzword, you might wanna check what wikileaks has to say on any source you wanna cite on this matter, as virtually all of them were proven to actively collude with the DNC/Hillary campaign last year in the wikileaks releases, and therefore have a vested interest in perpetuating the Russiagate myth. You say "follow the money", well these sources have their very livelyhood tied up in avoiding the contents of the wikileaks dumps and perpetuating the Russiagate crap. Maybe you should check your assumptions...


3: As to the “facts” you cite, most all of them are nowhere near what you think they are. Only innuendo even connects them to collusion with Russia. Papadopoulos is a low-level campaign figure desperate to create a name for himself whom the email exchanges show no one at a high level in the campaign took seriously. Tons of figures like him in every presidential campaign. At best, “lied” is an extreme overstatement regarding every person you listed. And you really think Trump’s rhetoric in July of 2016 is evidence of anything?

See, this is the problem. Leftists have become absurd conspiracy nuts on the Russia thing. Nevermind that the whole “russiagate” narrative started out as mythmaking to avoid the actual content of the wikileaks, and quickly morphed into a ready made explanation for Hillary’s loss. Ignore that the entire Russiagate narrative has constantly changed to fit the needs to the progressive agenda, while never providing any actual evidence along the way. The ONLY people who don’t see this are Leftists. Everyone outside of the left (and the few free thinkers on the Left) see this charade for what it is.

Oddly enough, the wikileaks emails (which the “russiagate” myth started out as a creation to avoid) shows willfull collusion with the DNC/Hillary Campaign and Mother Jones, Vox.com and a whole host of other “mainstream” sources. But the people who created, perpetuate and benefit from the “russiagate” myth are who we are to look to for honest reporting on the matter?! Interesting that “collusion” with Russia is verboten, but collusion with the media to mislead the public is not worthy of discussion.

It is very telling that progressive nuts can never address the actual CONTENT of the wikileaks documents (even though that content discredits the very sources they cite for “proof”). Nor can they ever actually spell out what “crime” Trump, uniquely, committed. Virtually every charge they level at Trump with regards to Russia can be far better proven in the case of Hillary, Obama or some other Leftist figure/group. If you wanna know what a Leftist is guilty of, just watch what he accuses you of.

So again; what collusion? Specifically, illegal collusion. What law was broken?

And how come you can’t address the Podesta group stuff? It is indisputable that Manafort was working with the Podesta group on behalf of Russian interests when Hillary was Secretary of State. The indictment specifically spells out the transactions they are looking at; ALL were from when the Podesta Group was working with Manafort (well before Trump had anything to do with him). How come you can’t comment on that?

Can you show me where I called you or you screen name a Trump Supporter?

But.... I did say: Dear Trump Supporters,
So if the shoe fit you........ But....... Don't say I called you so that we can be accurate please. Thanks.

 

[shagdrum]

Can you show me where I called you or you screen name a Trump Supporter?

But.... I did say: Dear Trump Supporters,
So if the shoe fit you........ But....... Don't say I called you so that we can be accurate please. Thanks.

Oh please.

Splitting hairs between an explicit statement and an implication is intellectually insulting to everyone here.

 

[jgscott]

Please cite the 'collusion' law.

KS

I'm quite sure the FBI will bring that one to The Senate. I do know and everyone else should know that Trump and his campaign are being Investigated by the FBI for Collusion with Russia.

May I ask you why you think they all are lying when asked about if they had contact with Russian? And Lying about what the contact is about? If Collusion is not a problem. I would say apparently Trump and His people think so. Yep.

 

[jgscott]

Oh please.

Splitting hairs between an explicit statement and an implication is intellectually insulting to everyone here.

Still didn't get the answer. Please point me back to where I called "YOU" a Trump Supporter? You made the claim. I think its a very fair question a ask you, being that you said it.

 

[cammerfe]

Arguing with a leftist on the internet is like wrestling with a greased pig. The thing is---the pig likes it.

KS