"You touch my junk and I'll have you arrested"

[fossten]

The American public has forgotten.

Its sad....when something happens everyone will blame TSA. So if we do our jobs we are wrong, if we dont do our jobs we are too.

Its not a big deal folks. When i fly i have to take my shoes off and go through all the same procedures as everyone else. Being part of the agency gives me no special privileges.

Everyday we have to put up with unruly passengers who have attitudes, some who dont bathe, and some who have no idea what is going on. Same rules for the past four years and the concept of 3.4oz or less is somehow hard to comply with.

There are some screeners who should not be employed but i bet you know some coworkers who shouldint work with you either. And missing stuff....well quite frankly it is impossible to get every single little thing. Try looking at a xray machine for several hours a day and seeing over a thousand bags full with tons of clutter.

When something is missed everyone knows about it, but when ones of us catches 30 rounds of rilfe rounds or a loaded hangun no one cares.

Stop trying to use Jedi mind tricks on people who value their privacy. Your contempt of the general public is notable.

They're looking for things instead of terrorists. It's an 'ad hoc' strategy that is always one step behind the terrorists. There are much better methods that don't involve enriching former heads of the DHS and Obama donors like Deepak Chopra and George Soros. It's completely unnecessary to subject Americans to a search, and 'quite frankly' the terrorists have moved on to something else already. The TSA is another government bureaucracy that has run amok, and it needs to be curtailed.

 

[BlackLS06]

Jedi mind tricks?? really??


Ive been deployed overseas and have seen the real terrorists. No we are not just looking for things....the checkpoint is just one layer of security. You do not see many of the things that go on. I am an American just like you and have protected you and the rest of the public while overseas and am now trying to do it here at home.

Many other screeners have done time in the military all the way from vietnam to iraqi freedom. We are not trying to take rights away.

Yet i get subjected to crap and its thrown in my face and an insult to me and every screener who was sworn in to protect this country.

When you choose to fly, you volunteer to be searched. Its called Administrative Search.

 

[tireman]

Really?

I'm a VET too, and I object to the intrusive pat downs for no other reason than a random search or objection to the radiation from the screening machine. As a screener yourself, who tells you, who to screen and pat down? Does a little light go on from behind the counter telling you to pat down the next customer? Tell us some more. I see grandma's getting searched for no reason, stupid. Since you are just a low level employee of the TSA and government how do you know what is behind the screening process and what the plans of the administration are? You just follow orders like you did in the military. Go back to school, get an education, then you will see more of what is really going on. Do you know who wants to sell the machines to the airports? How much and where the money goes? Who gets the payoff and who in our administration is behind the purchases? Did not your superiors in the military tell you to not believe anything you hear and only half of what you see? Your own superiors will lie to you to accomplish their goals. Do you know what their goals are? Do they confide in you? I doubt it.

 

[BlackLS06]

See this is another example of ignorance....it is not random.

The pat down is to resolve an alarm. When you walk through a metal detector if you alarm you step back out and remove any items left on your person to get rid of said alarm. If you keep alarming then you have to clear the alarm by a pat down.

When you see Grandma being patted down, its most likely because she has a medical implant such as a knee or a hip. Or if someone has a pacemaker they cannot walk through either so its an automatic patdown. Next time you fly just listen closely and you will hear people who have these medical implants say "im going to set it off i have a false knee".

Implants are made of metal (titanium) and will set off the metal detector 99% of the time. Before we changed to the new pat down we used the hand wand and a simple pat down. Now its just a more through patdown.

Isulin pumps will set it off also. Indian women wear bangels they cant remove, so they set it off. A prostetic arm or leg will also set it off. Makes sense now doesnt it? This is what people dont realize everything is for a reason.

Another reason to pat down is for bulky clothing. We dont just pat down for no reason. Matter fact if i could get by one day without having to pat down anyone even better.

Im just a "low level" employee but i still see and know things crucial to the screening process that i cant reveal because it is sensitive information. I i am still in the military. And even a D band employee makes very decent money..we dont make $10 a hour. The salary for a TSO ranges from $30K-$40K a year depending on the airport (locality pay) and many do have degrees and are simply using it as a stepping stone to other positions.

The "radiation" from the machine doesnt exist. It uses radiowaves...matter fact that device you hold up to your ear everyday called a cell phone emits radiation. So does flying in the cabin of the plane look up solar radiation.

And i am not a spokesperson for the agency either. But i can help explain why things are done. Everything that i have said here can be found online if you do some research.

 

[fossten]

When you see Grandma being patted down, its most likely because she has a medical implant such as a knee or a hip. Or if someone has a pacemaker they cannot walk through either so its an automatic patdown. Next time you fly just listen closely and you will hear people who have these medical implants say "im going to set it off i have a false knee".

Thus, Grandma shouldn't need to be patted down. She's not a terrorist.


Jeffrey Rosen


The TSA body scans are unconstitutional

~snip~


In a 2006 opinion for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit, then-Judge Samuel Alito stressed that screening procedures must be both “minimally intrusive” and “effective” – in other words, they must be “well-tailored to protect personal privacy,” and they must deliver on their promise of discovering serious threats. Alito upheld the practices at an airport checkpoint where passengers were first screened with walk-through magnetometers and then, if they set off an alarm, with hand-held wands. He wrote that airport searches are reasonable if they escalate “in invasiveness only after a lower level of screening disclose a reason to conduct a more probing search.”


As currently used in U.S. airports, the new full-body scanners fail all of Alito’s tests. First, as European regulators have recognized, they could be much less intrusive without sacrificing effectiveness. For example, Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport, the European airport that employs body-scanning machines most extensively, has incorporated crucial privacy and safety protections. Rejecting the “backscatter” machines used in the United States, which produce revealing images of the body and have raised concerns about radiation, the Dutch use scanners known as ProVision ATD, which employ radio waves with far lower frequencies than those used in common hand-held devices. If the software detects contraband or suspicious material under a passenger’s clothing, it projects an outline of that area of the body onto a gender-neutral, blob-like human image, instead of generating a virtually naked image of the passenger. The passenger can then be taken aside for secondary screening.

 

[fossten]

Jedi mind tricks?? really??


Ive been deployed overseas and have seen the real terrorists.

REALLY? How many of them look like 'Grandma?'

 

[fossten]

See this is another example of ignorance....it is not random.

Another lie. The backscatter machines ARE NOT due to an alarm.

 

[fossten]

TSA Should Profile, Keep Hands Off Innocent Passengers


Wednesday, 24 Nov 2010 11:43 AM
Article Font Size

By Michael Reagan

Four years ago I had hip replacement surgery — which involves having an implant containing metal — and that means that every time I fly, which is often, a Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) employee passes a wand over my body to be sure I'm not concealing some explosive device on my person. I'm used to it and I don't complain. It's the price we pay for airline safety.

I happened to fly on the day the new, more invasive procedures took effect. As I went through the new pre-boarding process, the TSA inspector congratulated me for not "going commando," as he put his hand into the waistband of my underwear. That's about as intimate an action as anyone can commit without getting a violent reaction from me, but I managed to restrain myself.

As bad and embarrassing as this experience was for me, I wondered what government would even consider ordering a male or female employee to put his or her hands inside the pants of an airline passenger before they board a plane.

Wow, I thought. The ghost of 9/11 terrorist Mohammed Atta is probably laughing out loud over what he accomplished when he and his fellow murderers drove airliners into the World Trade Center towers. They not only killed 3,000 innocent people but by their cowardly actions also provided a foreshadowing of the federal government curtailing our liberties once again. He must be happy over the results of his act of murderous terrorism as he bakes in the fires of hell. After all, he invented today's TSA.

The sad truth is that he appears to have won — we are still not safe from the crazies, and it is the crazies who are at war with us.

In 1981 when my father, President Reagan, was shot I remember asking the Secret Service agent in charge of my protection detail that with all their training and all their agents that surrounded my father how could it have been that would-be assassin John Hinckley was able to get off as many shots as he did and almost kill my father in the process.

His answer was that there simply is no training that can protect you from all the crazies who are willing to die in attempts to kill their targets, and they are our dedicated foes. Abraham Lincoln knew this when he said that anyone who was willing to die in an attempt to kill a president could succeed, as John Wilkes Booth proved in that hideous night at Ford's Theater.

Political correctness killed 13 innocent people at Ft. Hood when Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan gunned down 13 people and wounded many others despite the fact that his fellow officers were aware of his attachment to radical Islamism and all that it implied; it is the same political correctness that is stopping us today from doing what we truly need to be doing at airports and other public places: profiling all passengers.

I profile strangers I encounter unconsciously and so do you, and it is well past time that President Obama and his TSA do it was well, and it's just too darned bad if anyone is offended.

Mr. President, Israel's El Al Airlines inspectors routinely profile passengers and keep their hands to themselves, and they haven't allowed a single terrorist to board their planes. You should follow suit and tell your TSA people to keep their fumbling hands to themselves.


Michael Reagan is the son of President Ronald Reagan and a political consultant. He is the founder and chairman of The Reagan Group and president of The Reagan Legacy Foundation. Look for Mike's books and other information at Reagan.com. E-mail comments to Reagan@caglecartoons.com.

 

[BlackLS06]

REALLY? How many of them look like 'Grandma?'

Doesnt matter.

A terrorist can take on any image. And actually many of the detaines in our custody were grandpas or "Haji's" as they are called in Arabic.

And all alarms have to be resolved or it becomes a breach which can shut down a terminal and cause everyone to be delayed.

Another lie. The backscatter machines ARE NOT due to an alarm.

No its not due to an alarm.

Its used in lieu of the metal detector. We dont have any at my airport so i cant comment on them.

All it takes is one incident and everyone will apologize for giving us so much crap. But lets not have another 9/11. Complaining about the screening process is not giving regard to those lives lost on that sad day.

 

[Frogman]

And all alarms have to be resolved or it becomes a breach which can shut down a terminal and cause everyone to be delayed.

And we know that's happened a few times, due to the TSA "agent" forgetting to flip that little switch that says "power" on the metal detector.

All it takes is one incident and everyone will apologize for giving us so much crap.

But... But... But... Why weren't "you" guys doing your jobs on 9/11 then?

Complaining about the screening process is not giving regard to those lives lost on that sad day.

And that sad day happened because the TSA is so proactive? Or because it's reactive in nature?

It's common knowledge that the back scatter machines can't see plastique, let alone a surgically implanted non metallic device. If someone wants to bring down a plane (and I hope we don't have anything like that ever again), it really wouldn't be hard to sneak a device onboard.

I mean, take the... what's it called? CAPS? CAPPS? (CAPS, Computer Aided Passenger Screening, right?) system. If you fly one way, you get "flagged" on the ticket and theres a very good chance you get pulled in for the "extra" and "Random" inspection. Does the TSA really think terrorist are so poor and dumb that they won't buy a round trip ticket to avoid drawing more attention to themselves?

I say "very good chance" because I've always been pulled in for the "random" check when I've flown one way in the past. But I've had colleagues that told me they hadn't been "randomly" selected when they flew on a one way ticket.

Look, I don't have anything against you, TSA "agent" or no. I just don't care for some of the more.... retarded TSA "agents" I've had the pleasure of annoying in my life.

Commendable as it may be you're fighting a losing battle here in this thread.

 

[BlackLS06]

And we know that's happened a few times, due to the TSA "agent" forgetting to flip that little switch that says "power" on the metal detector.





But... But... But... Why weren't "you" guys doing your jobs on 9/11 then?




And that sad day happened because the TSA is so proactive? Or because it's reactive in nature?

It's common knowledge that the back scatter machines can't see plastique, let alone a surgically implanted non metallic device. If someone wants to bring down a plane (and I hope we don't have anything like that ever again), it really wouldn't be hard to sneak a device onboard.

I mean, take the... what's it called? CAPS? CAPPS? (CAPS, Computer Aided Passenger Screening, right?) system. If you fly one way, you get "flagged" on the ticket and theres a very good chance you get pulled in for the "extra" and "Random" inspection. Does the TSA really think terrorist are so poor and dumb that they won't buy a round trip ticket to avoid drawing more attention to themselves?

I say "very good chance" because I've always been pulled in for the "random" check when I've flown one way in the past. But I've had colleagues that told me they hadn't been "randomly" selected when they flew on a one way ticket.

Look, I don't have anything against you, TSA "agent" or no. I just don't care for some of the more.... retarded TSA "agents" I've had the pleasure of annoying in my life.

Commendable as it may be you're fighting a losing battle here in this thread.

Im not trying to "fight" anything. And i dont like the title agent....we arent law enforcement. We dont have credentials or arrest powers. Many of us dont even care for the shiny gold badge.

Im simply trying to clarify things as much as i can so that you can see that screeners are not your enemies. We are forced to follow rules and procedures that even we may not agree with or like.

And you must realize that screeners have to put up with a lot, from both management and passengers. Its builds up everyday and over the years.

If you have a bad experience it may not have been you but a previous passenger giving a hard time. Humans are mirrors and we reflect emotions off each other.

Do some research on explosives and you will see that they always show on any x-ray. I want to make sure joe blow isnt strapped with semtex.

If you dont agree with the procedures that is fine and your opinion. But other people are fine with it and prefer the AIT due to having implants and being able to get through quicker than before.

Its hard to see things from our side when you only pass through the checkpoint briefly. We are there every day 8 hours a day and screen passenger after passenger.

 

[Frogman]

Im not trying to "fight" anything. And i dont like the title agent....we arent law enforcement. We dont have credentials or arrest powers. Many of us dont even care for the shiny gold badge.

Agreed, hence the quotes around "agent". Many a' times I've heard TSA personnel refer to themselves as "agents" and every time, I chuckled.

Im simply trying to clarify things as much as i can so that you can see that screeners are not your enemies. We are forced to follow rules and procedures that even we may not agree with or like.

I realize this. I never said all TSA employees are my "enemies". After all, I'm not a terrorist, nor do I plan on ever being one. I realize you and your colleagues have to follow house rules. No argument there. But I do get annoyed when some of them think that God Almighty bestowed them with supernatural powers of assholiness. Yes, I know, that's not really a word.

And you must realize that screeners have to put up with a lot, from both management and passengers. Its builds up everyday and over the years.

I'm sure you all do, but a lot of it is "karma" from some of your fellow, God blessed colleagues. It's a two way street.

[quote[
If you have a bad experience it may not have been you but a previous passenger giving a hard time. Humans are mirrors and we reflect emotions off each other.

I... somehow doubt that. Especially after the US Marshals hauled the supervisor away in handcuffs. But, that's another story.

Do some research on explosives and you will see that they always show on any x-ray. I want to make sure joe blow isnt strapped with semtex.

I happened to have read a pamphlet on explosives a long time ago. It was a nice, extensive 5 page pamphlet. And I would list a bunch of non metallic explosives for your research pleasure, but I don't want to give people any ideas.

But to get you started... see how metallic detcord is. Then read about how powerful and detrimental to a pressurized cylinder flying 5 miles above the earth, a 3 foot length of high yield detcord can be.

If you dont agree with the procedures that is fine and your opinion. But other people are fine with it and prefer the AIT due to having implants and being able to get through quicker than before.

And some people enjoy being groped by strangers. It doesn't mean that everyone is fine with it, just like not everyone is fine with back scatter machines.

Its hard to see things from our side when you only pass through the checkpoint briefly. We are there every day 8 hours a day and screen passenger after passenger.

This may explain why TSA "agents" left live bullets in my trench coat after the "security" check point, then. 8 hours of dealing with subdued and generally afraid to speak up people will make any professional TSA "agent" miss such things.


Either way, this is one of the reasons I don't fly commercially anymore unless I absolutely have to.

 

[BlackLS06]

And i get annoyed when passengers have an attitude of "im better than you, why do i need to take off my shoes". It goes both ways like you said.

I wont even get started on det cord....it has to be lit a certain way.

And thats why they have the option of opting out for a patdown. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Flying is not a right, its a convenience.

If you dont like the options, dont fly. If you have to fly, well suck it up. Its like a seat belt not only for your own safety but for others as well.


"Groping" is intentionally feeling on someone. Performing a patdown is not intentional, its just something that has to be done to resolve an alarm.

No need to list any explosives. I know what they are. Kind of have to since its part of my job.

And why did you have bullets in the first place?

And when something is missed the world knows about. But all the weapons, ammuntion and weapons that we do find are never talked about.

 

[Frogman]

And i get annoyed when passengers have an attitude of "im better than you, why do i need to take off my shoes". It goes both ways like you said.

I only get a 'tude when the "other guy" has one. Other than that, I'm pretty easy going. I don't have a problem taking my shoes off AFTER the TSA missed the shoe bomber... attempted bomber. It just goes to further reinforce my belief that the TSA is a reactive agency.

I wont even get started on det cord....it has to be lit a certain way.

"Initiate", I believe is the word you were looking for. You don't "light" detcord. You initiate a detcord explosion with a blasting cap. And blasting caps can be had pretty small, nowadays. Some can easily be set off by a battery no bigger than a standard watch battery. But you don't even need that. A few Reactives would do the job just as well. Ever seen the stories of drug mules swallowing condoms full of coke? How hard do you think it would be for a terrorist to swallow a few large (or many small) soluble containers full of reactives and then gobble down a ton of water once the airplane is gear up?

And thats why they have the option of opting out for a patdown. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Flying is not a right, its a convenience.

Never said it was a right. But it also shouldn't be an inconvenient hassle.

If you dont like the options, dont fly. If you have to fly, well suck it up.

I don't much fly commercially, anymore.

Its like a seat belt not only for your own safety but for others as well.

Please don't get me started on seatbelt "safety". I've seen way too many deaths that could have been avoided should the driver not have worn seat belts.

"Groping" is intentionally feeling on someone. Performing a patdown is not intentional, its just something that has to be done to resolve an alarm.

An alarm? So, everyone who opts out of the scanners is automatically considered an "alarm" then? Just want to make sure I understand.

No need to list any explosives. I know what they are. Kind of have to since its part of my job.

Ok. When did you go through EOD school at Redstone and Eglin?

Tell me, what

And why did you have bullets in the first place?

Because It's my right to own firearms and subsequently stuff to make them work as designed. As such, I always have them on me. Those two that were missed just happened to be in my coat pocket because I placed them there a couple of days before and forgot all about them.

And when something is missed the world knows about. But all the weapons, ammuntion and weapons that we do find are never talked about.

Oh, bull!

The TSA is proud of the 2 firearms per day average and they tout it "every time" they find one.

But what about other weapons the TSA allows on a flight? How do these items strike you as a weapon?

A Bic pen (or any other pen, for that matter).

The METAL silverware you get to use in first class? A metal fork is pretty pointy. I'm not going to address the sorry excuse for a knife they give you. What they call a knife, the rest of the world calls a butter knife. But even that can be sharpened in less than 5 minutes in the bathroom. Are sharpening stones allowed in carry on nowadays?

The complimentary bottle of water you get in first class. With your extensive explosives experience, I'm certain you can name any one of hundreds of reactives that will violently react with water and go "boom". Or is the complimentary water in those airline bottles moisture free?

Can you spot less than 3.5oz of Ammonium Perchlorate? Azides of Heavy Metals? Calcium Nitrate? Fulminate of Mercury? and on, and on, and on.

Need I go on?


And what, what do you expect people to do when they realize the crack team of TSA "agents" (no, I'm not taking a pot shot at you, personally), missed a firearm? People to come back and say "Hey, you guys missed this bullet" or " this firearm. Here you go". Or will said people just shut the hell up, thank whatever Deity they believe in and move along?

What is TSA's SOPR (Standard Operating Procedure Response) when someone comes back and tells the "agents" they missed something like that? Honestly.

We know what the response is when the TSA finds the 2 firearms per day average...

And that's another thing I don't get about the TSA. At first, rounds were fine in a clip (magazine for some of you), as long as it was not in the firearm. Then, all of the sudden, ammo has to be in it's "original" shipping box. Really? A bullet primer is more prone to being struck by a foreign object in a clip than it is in a little paper box?

Look, it's your job. I can understand and respect that you're defending your employer's practices. Personally, I just wish the TSA (as a body) at least used the common sense God gave a maggot. But please, don't insult me by telling me the TSA is there for my protection. When is the last time the TSA screeners caught a terrorist at the check point?
Now, you can say "but anyone could be a terrorist", and I will agree. But I'm talking about an honest to goodness, "Allah Akbar!" kind of a terrorist?

 

[fossten]

And thats why they have the option of opting out for a patdown. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Flying is not a right, its a convenience.

Real classy, Mister "My Way Or The Highway Big Brother Tyrant." Why does it always have to be the FALSE CHOICE of either being groped or scanned, or not flying?

And what are you gonna say when a terrorist blows up a church or a mall?

"Going to church or shopping isn't a right, it's a convenience. Patdown or scan."

What are you gonna say when a terrorist gets onto a plane with explosives rammed up his dirt chute?

"Flying isn't a right, it's a convenience. Anal exam or Ex-Lax."

How about a third choice, since we're being PC and all:

You can grope or scan me, but if you find nothing, I get to kick you in the balls.

The government has no right to subject citizens to random, invasive (and ineffective) searches while they go about their daily business, without probable cause, all in the name of political correctness.

 

[BlackLS06]

I only get a 'tude when the "other guy" has one. Other than that, I'm pretty easy going. I don't have a problem taking my shoes off AFTER the TSA missed the shoe bomber... attempted bomber. It just goes to further reinforce my belief that the TSA is a reactive agency.

Yes but many people arent.

"Initiate", I believe is the word you were looking for. You don't "light" detcord. You initiate a detcord explosion with a blasting cap. And blasting caps can be had pretty small, nowadays. Some can easily be set off by a battery no bigger than a standard watch battery. But you don't even need that. A few Reactives would do the job just as well. Ever seen the stories of drug mules swallowing condoms full of coke? How hard do you think it would be for a terrorist to swallow a few large (or many small) soluble containers full of reactives and then gobble down a ton of water once the airplane is gear up?

I know this and much more.

Never said it was a right. But it also shouldn't be an inconvenient hassle.

Many things in life shouldn't be a hassle.

I don't much fly commercially, anymore.

Thats good to know.

Please don't get me started on seatbelt "safety". I've seen way too many deaths that could have been avoided should the driver not have worn seat belts.

Im sure they protect more people than they cause deaths.

An alarm? So, everyone who opts out of the scanners is automatically considered an "alarm" then? Just want to make sure I understand.

If you go thru the AIT and you aren't patted down, then you havent been screened. You have to be screened along with your items.

Ok. When did you go through EOD school at Redstone and Eglin?

Tell me, what

No we are trained by our own team and these guys have actually been EOD in the military and their sole job is to educate us on what to look for.

Because It's my right to own firearms and subsequently stuff to make them work as designed. As such, I always have them on me. Those two that were missed just happened to be in my coat pocket because I placed them there a couple of days before and forgot all about them.

Well it shouldn't have been missed. But i dont know what happened during that incident so i cant comment on it.

Oh, bull!

The TSA is proud of the 2 firearms per day average and they tout it "every time" they find one.

But what about other weapons the TSA allows on a flight? How do these items strike you as a weapon?

A Bic pen (or any other pen, for that matter).

The METAL silverware you get to use in first class? A metal fork is pretty pointy. I'm not going to address the sorry excuse for a knife they give you. What they call a knife, the rest of the world calls a butter knife. But even that can be sharpened in less than 5 minutes in the bathroom. Are sharpening stones allowed in carry on nowadays?

The complimentary bottle of water you get in first class. With your extensive explosives experience, I'm certain you can name any one of hundreds of reactives that will violently react with water and go "boom". Or is the complimentary water in those airline bottles moisture free?

Can you spot less than 3.5oz of Ammonium Perchlorate? Azides of Heavy Metals? Calcium Nitrate? Fulminate of Mercury? and on, and on, and on.

Need I go on?

That isnt our job.

Our job is to make sure anything coming into the airport is clear. Once inside the airport you can buy all the water you please and any size you please.

My fists can be a weapon too should they not be allowed??

And what, what do you expect people to do when they realize the crack team of TSA "agents" (no, I'm not taking a pot shot at you, personally), missed a firearm? People to come back and say "Hey, you guys missed this bullet" or " this firearm. Here you go". Or will said people just shut the hell up, thank whatever Deity they believe in and move along?

What is TSA's SOPR (Standard Operating Procedure Response) when someone comes back and tells the "agents" they missed something like that? Honestly.

We know what the response is when the TSA finds the 2 firearms per day average...

And that's another thing I don't get about the TSA. At first, rounds were fine in a clip (magazine for some of you), as long as it was not in the firearm. Then, all of the sudden, ammo has to be in it's "original" shipping box. Really? A bullet primer is more prone to being struck by a foreign object in a clip than it is in a little paper box?

Nobody has ever missed a firearm...at least not at my airport.

If you have your eyes open you can clearly see if there is a firearm inside a bag.

Look, it's your job. I can understand and respect that you're defending your employer's practices. Personally, I just wish the TSA (as a body) at least used the common sense God gave a maggot. But please, don't insult me by telling me the TSA is there for my protection. When is the last time the TSA screeners caught a terrorist at the check point?
Now, you can say "but anyone could be a terrorist", and I will agree. But I'm talking about an honest to goodness, "Allah Akbar!" kind of a terrorist?

How am i insulting you? So you expect us to catch a terrorist everyday?? You arent on the other side so you have no idea what we do.

By being there we are a deterrent. I can guarantee you that if we just let everyone pass through something would possibly happen.

Real classy, Mister "My Way Or The Highway Big Brother Tyrant." Why does it always have to be the FALSE CHOICE of either being groped or scanned, or not flying?

It is a choice.

Again you dont have to fly and it isnt a right, its a privilege and convenience to get from point a to point b by a quicker means of travel.

And what are you gonna say when a terrorist blows up a church or a mall?

"Going to church or shopping isn't a right, it's a convenience. Patdown or scan."

What does a mall have to do with anything? We are talking about transportation. And we have nothing to do with churches or malls.

What are you gonna say when a terrorist gets onto a plane with explosives rammed up his dirt chute?

"Flying isn't a right, it's a convenience. Anal exam or Ex-Lax."

How about a third choice, since we're being PC and all:

You can grope or scan me, but if you find nothing, I get to kick you in the balls.

Quit being ridiculous.

And you can be arrested for assaulting a federal employee. If you dont think so go ahead and try it. Again this is the typical attitude of "im better than you dont touch me".

The government has no right to subject citizens to random, invasive (and ineffective) searches while they go about their daily business, without probable cause, all in the name of political correctness.

Probable cause is not needed for administrative search. YOu subject to administrative search when you volunteer to fly. The rules are all over the place and if you still dont know them then

 

[fossten]

It is a choice.

Again you dont have to fly and it isnt a right, its a privilege and convenience to get from point a to point b by a quicker means of travel.

I see you have no answer to me pointing out the logical flaw in your argument, so you just repeat your FAIL talking point.

Typical.

What does a mall have to do with anything? We are talking about transportation. And we have nothing to do with churches or malls.

Give it time. Your boss, Big Sis Incompetano, is already proposing that the TSA start putting checkpoints in bus terminals and train stations. When the terrorists move to buildings and malls, it will only be a matter of time. TSA can expand to cover that as well. Most government bureaucracies experience growth and mission creep. Ever heard of the BATFE? You know what that stands for? Do you even know what it used to be? (Hint: Think 'Treasury')

Quit being ridiculous.

Is this an actual argument? Because your 'false choice' is a logically flawed argument. The only one being ridiculous is you.

And you can be arrested for assaulting a federal employee. If you dont think so go ahead and try it. Again this is the typical attitude of "im better than you dont touch me".

Ah yes, the statist bully rears his ugly head. Way to show your true colors. I was simply using absurdity to illustrate the absurd nature of your false choice argument, and you took it personally. Maybe you shouldn't discuss this if you can't do it rationally. By the way, you might want to review the topic of this thread. Look for lawsuits and arrests in your future if you keep groping the nads and t!ts of innocent Americans for no reason and no probable cause.

You exemplify the thuggish attitude of people like Incompetano. You believe that because you've been given a title, you can just shove people around and treat them like kicked dogs. Keep that up and you'll find a full scale rebellion on your hands. The worst thing is that you thugs don't give a rat's hind end about the people whose rights you're violating. You don't even really believe in what you're doing, because if you did you'd see that the methods you're using aren't 'deterring' jack. It's just a job to you, and a pretty pathetic one at that. You grope and scan people and it's just a way to make the credit card payment. It's sick.

Probable cause is not needed for administrative search. YOu subject to administrative search when you volunteer to fly. The rules are all over the place and if you still dont know them then

Oh, that's what we're calling it now, an 'administrative' search? Because it's far more than that. I'd like to see your Constitutional authority to strip people in 'administrative searches.' Please find that for me. The rules are in the 4th Amendment and you don't even know them.

Thanks for illustrating that you and your thugs are more interested in 'following orders' and 'offending Americans' than you are in catching real terrorists.

 

[Calabrio]

By being there we are a deterrent. I can guarantee you that if we just let everyone pass through something would possibly happen.

Guarantee a maybe?

And I can guarantee that even with you there something might possibly happen... in fact, it has. Fortunately, we've been lucky and their efforts have been unsuccessful these past few years.

Again you dont have to fly and it isnt a right, its a privilege and convenience to get from point a to point b by a quicker means of travel.

But we do have freedom of movement.
And the federal government doesn't have the right to invade our privacy as a matter of policy. Just like police can't walk down the street and randomly search the vehicles of people driving. Driving is a privileged too.

What does a mall have to do with anything? We are talking about transportation. And we have nothing to do with churches or malls.

Because after the public comes to accept this level of invasion at the airport, it is logical to expect it to use them in other locations as well. Infact, alarmingly, they have even said so.

Again,an important point is, THIS IS NOT THE BEST METHOD OF SECURITY.
It is invasive, it is inefficient, it wastes resources, and because of politics, we deliberately screen people of no risk to make those that possess a risk feel better about themselves.

Profiling isn't racist.
We shouldn't be pulling people with a dark complexion out of the line. However, we do have the intelligence ability and computer networking ability that should flag people who have traveled to terrorist countries or communicated with them. TSA should be privatized, and staffed by professionals with security clearances. Frankly, they should be better paid professionals with backgrounds in security and intelligence work, or the best TSA employees are retrained and given specialized training and screened for a security clearance. Get your SF-86 updated.

We need greater use of dogs and human judgment.
And more "air marshals" would be a wise investment as well- that or let me check in my firearm and carry it on the plane. You want to discuss deterrents, let's see who tries to hijack a jet coming out of Texas.

 

[fossten]

Bomb sniffing pigs? Problem solved!

 

[fossten]

Profiling isn't racist.

We already profile in other security measures, like the drug war. Colombians are marked men.

Seems we're deathly afraid of offending the muslims, as though if we don't offend them they won't attack us.

 

[BlackLS06]

I see you have no answer to me pointing out the logical flaw in your argument, so you just repeat your FAIL talking point.

Typical.
Give it time. Your boss, Big Sis Incompetano, is already proposing that the TSA start putting checkpoints in bus terminals and train stations. When the terrorists move to buildings and malls, it will only be a matter of time. TSA can expand to cover that as well. Most government bureaucracies experience growth and mission creep. Ever heard of the BATFE? You know what that stands for? Do you even know what it used to be? (Hint: Think 'Treasury')
Is this an actual argument? Because your 'false choice' is a logically flawed argument. The only one being ridiculous is you.

Am i the one making false a assumption of "groping"?

Ah yes, the statist bully rears his ugly head. Way to show your true colors. I was simply using absurdity to illustrate the absurd nature of your false choice argument, and you took it personally. Maybe you shouldn't discuss this if you can't do it rationally. By the way, you might want to review the topic of this thread. Look for lawsuits and arrests in your future if you keep groping the nads and t!ts of innocent Americans for no reason and no probable cause.

Im sorry but i cant be arrested for doing my job. But you can be arrested for preventing me from doing my job. Yet again i will state that nobody is being groped. We use the back of our hands on sensitive areas and we dont not grab anything we simply slide across.

You exemplify the thuggish attitude of people like Incompetano. You believe that because you've been given a title, you can just shove people around and treat them like kicked dogs. Keep that up and you'll find a full scale rebellion on your hands. The worst thing is that you thugs don't give a rat's hind end about the people whose rights you're violating. You don't even really believe in what you're doing, because if you did you'd see that the methods you're using aren't 'deterring' jack. It's just a job to you, and a pretty pathetic one at that. You grope and scan people and it's just a way to make the credit card payment. It's sick.
Oh, that's what we're calling it now, an 'administrative' search? Because it's far more than that. I'd like to see your Constitutional authority to strip people in 'administrative searches.' Please find that for me. The rules are in the 4th Amendment and you don't even know them.

I dont shove or kick anyone. Matter fact im actually very nice to people and explain everything to them as much as possible. The only "thuggish attitudes" are those of yourself and the others who think they are King George and should just bypass screening.

Rebellion?

Look at the failure that national opt out day was. In the end everybody just wants to fly. And because you want to fly you will follow the rules. Or you can stay at home. Honestly it doesn't matter to me because i have other people to get through screening.

Also you have no knowledge of the screening process therefore all you can do is argue what you think is right.

Administrative Search : an inspection or search carried out under a regulatory or statutory scheme esp. in public or commercial premises and usu. to enforce compliance with regulations or laws pertaining to health, safety, or security

If you assault a federal employee while they are doing their job you can be arrested plain and simple. This is nothing new. I never said i can arrest you but i can guarantee you that if someone assaults me while i am doing my job i will press charges on them and the end result can be arrest.

Touch your junk and you'll have me arrested? No..assault me and ill have you arrested.

Guarantee a maybe?

And I can guarantee that even with you there something might possibly happen... in fact, it has. Fortunately, we've been lucky and their efforts have been unsuccessful these past few years.

Oh really?

And what has happened? Show me how many planes have been taken down since 9/11.

But we do have freedom of movement.
And the federal government doesn't have the right to invade our privacy as a matter of policy. Just like police can't walk down the street and randomly search the vehicles of people driving. Driving is a privileged too.

No they cannot without a search warrant. But the airport is federal property.

You can be checked at anytime on federal property.

Because after the public comes to accept this level of invasion at the airport, it is logical to expect it to use them in other locations as well. Infact, alarmingly, they have even said so.

Again,an important point is, THIS IS NOT THE BEST METHOD OF SECURITY.
It is invasive, it is inefficient, it wastes resources, and because of politics, we deliberately screen people of no risk to make those that possess a risk feel better about themselves.

Ok then how would you do it if you were in charge??

Profiling isn't racist.
We shouldn't be pulling people with a dark complexion out of the line. However, we do have the intelligence ability and computer networking ability that should flag people who have traveled to terrorist countries or communicated with them. TSA should be privatized, and staffed by professionals with security clearances. Frankly, they should be better paid professionals with backgrounds in security and intelligence work, or the best TSA employees are retrained and given specialized training and screened for a security clearance. Get your SF-86 updated.

Ive been to a "terrorist country" so that means i would be profiled right??

Like i said many are prior military and have degrees in many different fields. And i actually hold a secret clearance myself.

We need greater use of dogs and human judgment.
And more "air marshals" would be a wise investment as well- that or let me check in my firearm and carry it on the plane. You want to discuss deterrents, let's see who tries to hijack a jet coming out of Texas.

So you hate TSA but you agree on having more FAM's onboard??

 

[Calabrio]

Oh really?
And what has happened? Show me how many planes have been taken down since 9/11.

Are you arguing that weapons and contraband have not been discovered on board airplanes since 9/11? Are you arguing that there haven't been failed terrorist attacks since 9/11?

I didn't say there were any successful violent attacks since then, but that has less to do with effective TSA policy than dumb luck. There was even a number of incidence a few years ago where contraband was being found left on the planes, presumably by airport employees. I'd have to go research the details, but it was along the lines of clean up crews leaving items hidden in the bathroom.

So, let's have a reasonable conversation here and not presume anyone is stupid. You're simply taking a defensive position with everyone here, your defending as though a better way isn't possible or better.

No they cannot without a search warrant. But the airport is federal property.
You can be checked at anytime on federal property.

So your defensive response is that we surrender our rights if we want to fly a PRIVATE airline.

So, just to continue your logic, if Homeland security decides that random cavity checks are acceptable, then we should willingly accept that or just drive? Because, is a strip search any less invasive just because I don't have to ruin the crease in my pants going through the machine?

Ive been to a "terrorist country" so that means i would be profiled right??

Yes. Doesn't it make more sense to interview someone who has spent time traveling and networking in countries like Afghanistan, Sudan, and Pakistan, than an 80 year old nun who's never traveled outside of the New England?

Most likely, your travel was while in the military.
You're employed by the TSA.
You state that you have a security clearance as well, possibly a current one.
So with that in mind, maybe it's not worth investing the time to question you further.
Maybe it's worth flagging the college age guy that has traveled to Pakistan three times in the last year and a half. Or the woman who is a member of several international "terrorist" groups like ELF.

Like i said many are prior military and have degrees in many different fields. And i actually hold a secret clearance myself.

Good. Then the transition to the private sector would be easy.

So you hate TSA but you agree on having more FAM's onboard??

I didn't say I "hate" the TSA, I've said that I don't like the policy decisions coming from Homeland Security.

And no, I think that more citizens taking responsibility for their own security makes us all safer. The ever increasing reliance on the federal government for all safety is a recipe for a disaster and that dependence inevitably leads to bad things in the future.

 

[fossten]

Am i the one making false a assumption of "groping"?



Im sorry but i cant be arrested for doing my job. But you can be arrested for preventing me from doing my job. Yet again i will state that nobody is being groped. We use the back of our hands on sensitive areas and we dont not grab anything we simply slide across.

grope
Definition
grope
[ grōp ]
http://www.bing.com/caption/image/?bid=L8TayvbbduqL+w&bn=EDPG&form=DTPDIOTo hear the pronunciation, install Silverlight
VERB
1.
intransitive verb search by feeling: to search for something blindly or uncertainly by feeling with the hands "groping for the light switch"


2.
intransitive verb be without guidance: to strive blindly or uncertainly for something "groping for inspiration"


3.
transitive verb feel your way uncertainly: to feel your way forward slowly and hesitantly, e.g. in the dark "They groped their way back out of the tunnel."


4.
transitive verb fondle somebody roughly: to caress or touch somebody's body for sexual pleasure, often roughly, awkwardly, or without the person's consent ( slang )

I see nothing about the back of the hand in there.

YOU FAIL.

I dont shove or kick anyone. Matter fact im actually very nice to people and explain everything to them as much as possible. The only "thuggish attitudes" are those of yourself and the others who think they are King George and should just bypass screening.

I'm a thug? I'm not the one sexually assaulting people. You are. Nice try.

Rebellion?

Look at the failure that national opt out day was. In the end everybody just wants to fly. And because you want to fly you will follow the rules. Or you can stay at home. Honestly it doesn't matter to me because i have other people to get through screening.

It doesn't matter to you, and yet you brag triumphantly about people submitting to your tyranny? Nice.

Also you have no knowledge of the screening process therefore all you can do is argue what you think is right.

If I have no knowledge of it, then you've done a crappy job of explaining it, haven't you?

If you assault a federal employee while they are doing their job you can be arrested plain and simple. This is nothing new. I never said i can arrest you but i can guarantee you that if someone assaults me while i am doing my job i will press charges on them and the end result can be arrest.

Stalin would be proud.

 

[fossten]

Like i said many are prior military and have degrees in many different fields. And i actually hold a secret clearance myself.

Big friggin' whoop. I got a Top Secret Clearance in the Army when I was eighteen.

You know what you have to do to get one? Don't lie on the questionnaire. Whoop-tee-do.

 

[BlackLS06]

Wow im getting attacked left and right.

So if you dont want me to take a defensive stand then lets indeed have a reasonable conversation without flaming as i feel thats all thats going on here.

Being told im sexually assualting people is flaming and downright insulting to me. Im not a sex offender dont even have a misdemeanor.