Will 2 batt be too much for the stock alt?

FrankLS

FrankLS

Well-Known LVC Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
459
Reaction score
4
Location
Tucson
Hey guys, so i have a kineti hc2000 which i plan on using once i upgrade my sound system. I was wondering if using the stock and the kinetic together will result in too much of a strain on my stock alternator. Plan on running a bit over 2000 watt sub.
According to their website, they claim that their batteries do not wear down the alt because they charge so quickly and retain the energy. I dont know if i beleive this. I have an 06 so stock alternator is 150 amp correct?
Or should i just run the kinetik by itself? Plan on upgrading electrical to 0 guage
Thanks in advance.
 
FrankLS said:
Hey guys, so i have a kineti hc2000 which i plan on using once i upgrade my sound system. I was wondering if using the stock and the kinetic together will result in too much of a strain on my stock alternator. Plan on running a bit over 2000 watt sub.
According to their website, they claim that their batteries do not wear down the alt because they charge so quickly and retain the energy. I dont know if i beleive this. I have an 06 so stock alternator is 150 amp correct?
Or should i just run the kinetik by itself? Plan on upgrading electrical to 0 guage
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I've had people tell me the same thing about kinetik batts. I would upgrade electrical to be able to charge 2 batts if going that route (ho alt with extra runs of wire from alt to batt, alt to ground, and batt to ground) Otherwise it seems wasteful to me. Maybe replace the stock battery with something more performance oriented first? Then check voltage drop at full tilt to assess if further steps need to be taken. I'm running a directed d2400 amp at 1 ohm, and see little to no drop at 75% volume, and gains set ascorrectly as possible without a scope. I have only replaced the stock battery with an optima yellow top.
 
Thats about the same power im gonna be running and about the same sub you also have. Right now im planning on upgrading to 0 gauge and replace my stock batt with the kinetik. I have a dash mounted voltmeter so i guess once all my components are in place i will have to do some testing. The kinetik website says I should replace my stock batt with a hc1400 and then add the hc2000 as a secondary. Not sure how accurate their calc is.

I dont think a Ho alt is something i would like to invest in right now, unless its critical to my install

Ill check the before and after, once i upgrade to 0 gauge to see if it did anything.
 
FrankLS said:
Thats about the same power im gonna be running and about the same sub you also have. Right now im planning on upgrading to 0 gauge and replace my stock batt with the kinetik. I have a dash mounted voltmeter so i guess once all my components are in place i will have to do some testing. The kinetik website says I should replace my stock batt with a hc1400 and then add the hc2000 as a secondary. Not sure how accurate their calc is.

I dont think a Ho alt is something i would like to invest in right now, unless its critical to my install

Ill check the before and after, once i upgrade to 0 gauge to see if it did anything.
Click to expand...

I would just consider an HO Alternator part of playing the game. You are planning to add an extra 2000-watts of load that Ford didn't plan for even if it only lasts a second.

Lets look at it from a different angle. The Gen-1 had a 110-amp alternator. Since the Alternator was already inadequate, they came up with a hydraulic fan system for the radiator to alleviate the load. The Gen-2 had a 140-amp alternator allowing them to run an electric fan. This is evidence enough that the alternator is just big enough to run a fully-optioned LS.

To me, it would seem like an HO alternator is the only good way to make sure I don't damage the rest of the car. Given with how electrically sensitive these cars are I wouldn't want to overload it.
 
the only problem i see with an aftermarket alt other than the price, is the fact that my car is covered under the extended warranty plan and changing the alt to me seams a lil drastic and dont know how ford will see it.

I do agree with you that the best thing a person could do if needing more power would be to purchase an ho alt. Anything else is basically a temporary fix.
 
FrankLS said:
the only problem i see with an aftermarket alt other than the price, is the fact that my car is covered under the extended warranty plan and changing the alt to me seams a lil drastic and dont know how ford will see it.

I do agree with you that the best thing a person could do if needing more power would be to purchase an ho alt. Anything else is basically a temporary fix.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm in a similar boat with my 8.8" upgrade. Since the center section is covered under the drivetrain warranty, it kind of brings it all into question.
 
Kumba said:
The Gen-1 had a 110-amp alternator. Since the Alternator was already inadequate, they came up with a hydraulic fan system for the radiator to alleviate the load. The Gen-2 had a 140-amp alternator allowing them to run an electric fan. This is evidence enough that the alternator is just big enough to run a fully-optioned LS.
Click to expand...

food for thought:

at 100% efficiency (which no amp is ever close to that)
1200 watts / 14.4 volts = 83.3 amps

at 80%, 104 amps

140a - 83.3a = 56.7a
140a - 104a = 36a

how many amps did you say the car need to run itself on?



FrankLS said:
the fact that my car is covered under the extended warranty plan
Click to expand...

for that reason alone i would leave the alt alone,and do not add more stuff for the alt to struggle to power (like a second battery) above the sound system.

upgrading the cars battery is a good place to start, but when you start to notice the alt dying, dont wait around, get if fixed right away.

i would also recommend removing anything before taking it in to get fixed by the dealer if needed(just alternator based) because there is a very good chance that they will see the amp and huge power wire and blame the alt failing on that (and they would be right) and possibly not cover it.


as far the the necessity of replacing the alt, it all depends on how you listen to it, if you dont have it cranked up all the time it wont really be pushing the amp too hard and it should be fine for awhile. but if you want to cruse around all the time with it blasting, it will sure stress the hell out of the alt, especially in hot weather.
 
Gen2 has a 150amp alternator on the V8 and 140amp on the V6.

Kinetik's "calculator" is BS. They just want you to buy two of their batts. I say get a 2000 or 2400 and replace the OEM battery. If you still have voltage issues, add 'big 3' wiring. If you still have issues then, it is time for a HO alt.
 
1LoudLS said:
food for thought:

at 100% efficiency (which no amp is ever close to that)
1200 watts / 14.4 volts = 83.3 amps

at 80%, 104 amps

140a - 83.3a = 56.7a
140a - 104a = 36a

how many amps did you say the car need to run itself on?
Click to expand...

No clue. Whatever it is, Ford determined that 110-amps was not enough alternator to use an Electric fan on a Gen-1. I am guessing that an electric radiator fan on high uses 20-amps or somewhere in that ballpark. The AC Blower on high is probably another 10 amps or so. That doesn't leave much room left given your numbers. And that's before headlights, power windows, etc. It is just very close.

Lets also not forget that a 140a alternator is not designed to put out 140-amp at 100% duty cycle. It's probably more like 140-amps at 20% duty cycle. Really to just recharge the battery from the starter cranking it over. A continuous duty cycle (100%) is usually around half of what the alternator is "rated" for. Think of it like RMS and Peak power ratings on an AMP (although not quite the same).

And the argument about him not turning the volume up doesn't work either. No one gets 2000-watts of sub put in their car so they can go to church. Does that mean he'll drive around everywhere with it cranked? No. But it does mean he intends to vibrate quarters off the trunk at some point. If you spent a bunch of money on something would you not want to show it off every so often?

Like I said in my original post, to do it right you would replace the alternator. Given that the op has an ESP he would like to keep, his best option is to either not do it at all like you suggested, or make sure it can all be removed without any real traces.
 
Andrizzle said:
Gen2 has a 150amp alternator on the V8 and 140amp on the V6.

Kinetik's "calculator" is BS. They just want you to buy two of their batts. I say get a 2000 or 2400 and replace the OEM battery. If you still have voltage issues, add 'big 3' wiring. If you still have issues then, it is time for a HO alt.
Click to expand...

x2. Start with a batt. If you're dropping then do the b3.
 
OP, Are you going to be competing in an SPL soundoff competition?

The HC2000 is designed to provide max. power for a <2000 watt system
but only for a few seconds. Your Subwoofer alone is greater than 2000
watts and that's not including the other descrete amplified channels in your
system. You may stress your stock alternator to failure in a short amount
of time if you expect to continuously crank out some serious dB's.

If you plan on driving around listening with that kind of system,
battery upgrade is only 1/3 of what really needs to be done to your
car's system. Definitely do the 0 gauge upgrade. Your stock alternator is
not going to be able to keep up with the system demand.

Be cognisant of what you read into the lines. Kinetic may claim their
batteries will not wear down your alternator but that claim does not
include the added load from the rest of the vehicles electronics.

Look to Alma Gates for inspiration at what you will be needing to work on.
Her son, Patrick, designed and built a working high powered daily driver as well
as the system in Almas SPL Ford Bronco.



Ren/Octane
 
early LS's alternator's suck, they are battery killers. I upgraded to a 200amp recently.
 
I deff dont plan on competing at all. Im going for a daily driver. Im no bass junkie so i wont be cranking this sucker all the way up for an extended period of time. I already have all the 0 gauge for a full o gauge upgrade (all 3 cables), so the big 3 is deff going to get done.
Right now its a waiting game, whenever DC decides to send me the sub i ordered about a month ago, i will be able to monitor the voltage to see if my electrical can keep up with the sub at a moderate volume. Thanks for all the input. Will deff not run two batts, just the kinetik.

On another note, the big 3.
When running the cable from the neg batt to the engine block, is this cable really necessary. Can i replicate this in any other way and not have to run 15 ft of 0 gauge from the batt in the back to the engine in the front. Im deff doing the other 2, grounding the batt with 0 gauge and poss batt to alt.

Ive searched the forum and found nothing on the specifics of big 3 on the LS
 
Nope. You have to do all 3 or none at all. Don't remove any existing wiring, only add.

You are going to have to jack stand the car to get under it. Since the alt is in a terrible location running this wire is obviously the most dificult. Also I have not done this yet myself but will be soon and start by finding where the OEM cables run. I wanna say the positive runs under the car, but don't quote me. Since our batt is in the spare well it makes running underside with zipties an easy possibility. Plus the alt is alrdy down there. So the run isn't exacty going to be as long as you think.
 
alt is a beeotch to get out/back in. I've seen good pics on here regarding angles etc. check em out.

ratchet wrenches helped me.
 
yeah i know, ill only add wire without disconnecting any.
What fuse would you recommend on the poss batt to alt?
 
Your LS chassis may be good enough for basic grounding upgrades
But keep in mind that your Kinetic needs to charge as
Efficiently as possible.

When car batteries are being charged, current flows into
the battery through its negative polarity. This reversed flow
makes the negative cable equally important as the positive
to get the very best performance out of your Kinetic.

Running a separate ground cable from the battery to or as close
to the alt case as possible is the ideal setup.


Ren/Octane
 
Electrical Systems

If you think of the battery as a 'storage tank' for electricity, you won't go too far wrong! Your alternator is just 'pouring' electricity into the storage, and the fact that you have larger storage (two batteries) simply means that, on demand, you can use more for a while without running out. It is, of course, better to have a larger capacity 'pump' (alternator), but any improvement to the system will be to your benefit.

But I don't know squat about sound systems!:D

KS
 
Camme you are correct, in theory using both batts is more storage. But I am not much a fan of mixing wet cell batts with dry cell performance batts. The single dry cell should be sufficient. That is really the only reason I would suggest only the kinetik.

Not to mention the shedding of extra weight.
 
Andrizzle said:
start by finding where the OEM cables run. I wanna say the positive runs under the car, but don't quote me.
Click to expand...

the factory battery power wire runs down the passenger side of the car, under the carpet, there is a large channel for all the wires to run down, the battery cable is in there. there is also a large gauge wire that runs down the drivers side to provide power to stuff on the drivers side of the dash
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 161 (members: 0, guests: 161)
Back
Top