What would you pay for the "perfect" Mark?

GMAN, that $750 Mark is a little bit of a fluke but the mere fact its $750 tells me there is PLENTY wrong with it. Also any Mark no matter how well loved (with the rare exception) will have several or more dor dings/rock dings in it. And $600 for a rebuild? Hmm, interesting. A frshen up of bearings is not a rebuild. Pistons are a wear item too as are the valve guides and valve lash adjusters. To PROPERLY rebuild a motor you would replace all those parts as well.

Even if only replacing rings, seals and bearings is $600 then I would also be weary. A good pair of head gaskets is $100 (not talking chit $30 ones), valve cover/oil pan/front/rear mains, piston rings and bearings, new head bolts alone will push you near $600. Then to have the heads and deck lapped (a 100k+ motor will need that) and to hone the mains as well as rods by itself will also eat up most if not all that $600.

Now thats the proper way to rebuild a motor. Anything less is making a motor that will not last and/or make the power it should. I have seen more then one modular and quite a few old pushrod 5.0s blow up in no time from an improper rebuild. After asking their respective owners if the previous items were done its usually a "no" in the answer recieved.
 
LaserSVT said:
GMAN, that $750 Mark is a little bit of a fluke but the mere fact its $750 tells me there is PLENTY wrong with it. Also any Mark no matter how well loved (with the rare exception) will have several or more dor dings/rock dings in it. And $600 for a rebuild? Hmm, interesting. A frshen up of bearings is not a rebuild. Pistons are a wear item too as are the valve guides and valve lash adjusters. To PROPERLY rebuild a motor you would replace all those parts as well.

Even if only replacing rings, seals and bearings is $600 then I would also be weary. A good pair of head gaskets is $100 (not talking chit $30 ones), valve cover/oil pan/front/rear mains, piston rings and bearings, new head bolts alone will push you near $600. Then to have the heads and deck lapped (a 100k+ motor will need that) and to hone the mains as well as rods by itself will also eat up most if not all that $600.

Now thats the proper way to rebuild a motor. Anything less is making a motor that will not last and/or make the power it should. I have seen more then one modular and quite a few old pushrod 5.0s blow up in no time from an improper rebuild. After asking their respective owners if the previous items were done its usually a "no" in the answer recieved.
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Every rebuild is not created equal. Take for instance My parts 94 with 194K miles. When I took that motor apart the cylinder walls still had cross hairs on them, and the pistons were ready for another 200K. One rod was stretched. The owner of the machine shop told me as such. Now there are some trash motors out there as well. This is all speculation at this point. I got $3k in my sons car, and that includes all go fast parts and labor. And it is a properly rebuilt motor. I trust it implicitly.

Now my current build, here is how my Machine Shop costs are broken down:
Block Prep & Bore .020 125.00
Clean Heads (C) 24.00
Pressure Test Heads 70.00
Valve Job and Mill DOHC 32V 256.00
Machine Crank 75.00
1 Valve 11.00
32 Valve Seals 48.00
Total 609.00

Now depending on the condition of the heads of whatever car I get If he chooses to do it. Will be more or less, but not by much. Now there are other odds and ends that I will pick up later like oil pump and other stuff, but basically $1000 for a rebuild is a reasonable start in my opinion.
 
I live in pa and bought my gen 2 (which was totaled) from a fellow member on here for 4k! My car was excellent shape,no dents,dings original paint,120k miles but looked like it had 50k, every option on the lsc, new front end parts, good tires and the member who sold it put an adrenelin compressor and brand new bags up front! No rust anywhere! You just got to be at the right place at the right time to find a deal!
 
So then no, you are not rebuilding a motor for $609. After bearings, head gaskets, rear seal, front seal, head bolts, valve cover gaskets, IMRC gasket, T-body gasket, IAC gasket, plenum gasket and someone to time the motor you are past $1000. And thats not even taking into account the timing setup. For me I wouldnt do it half assed after spending all that other monies and would want new chains and tensioners and possibly guides.

My point was you can not do even a partial rebuild for the $600 you quoted.
 
there-is-no-spoon-there-is-no-spoon-liar-demotivational-poster-1253012467.jpg



:lol:
 
i am going to have to go with lazer on this one. that is the reason for my sarcastic rant above. It would take 15k + to take a $750 car and turn it into a showroom fresh perfect car. hell I have about 3500 in mine right now. and it is a PIG!!! compared to a showroom fresh car... my car started as a $450 98k mi bag of bolts that had been sitting for 5 years with a close to perfect black interior.

IMHO these cars are cheap sleepers. they cost next to nothing for an initial investment, with all kinds of potential. not a car that you go out and spend $10,000 from the start. a car that you eventually spend $10,000 over time.

If I had $10,000 to spend on a car when i bought this car.... I would have never bought it. I would be in something newer with less miles and less headaches. I bet half the people that own one would say the same thing.
 
zmt325 said:
IMHO these cars are cheap sleepers. they cost next to nothing for an initial investment, with all kinds of potential. not a car that you go out and spend $10,000 from the start. a car that you eventually spend $10,000 over time.
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Xactly.
And every buck is spent outta love.
Last piece of thundering elegance to roll off the line at Wixom, being loved and kept tip top in an age when lame econo-boxes with slick styling and 20" wheels are considered "cool". And when lip-synching at concerts is considered "normal" instead of "a reason to get booed off the stage and burned at the stake and buried at a crossroads at midnight".
Call me Old Skool.
 
Well this is all good speculation. The guy haven't decided what he wants to do. One thing I know for sure, My son's 97 LSC, is a FULL rebuild, and I am nowhere near $6k, and that is with labor. When everything is all set and done, I will definitely have to tally up everything. The exception is my C head build. So far, I have about $1600 invested, and I haven't assembled the short block yet. That motor will be far from standard.
 
My black on black 97 LSC was completely original, a 2 owner car with all the options, heated seats, moonroof, everything with 54,000 miles on it. All oem Working air ride, moonroof...and every single thing i spent so long looking for...even the pinchwelds werent mangled, yes i turned down cars for LESS that that.

I looked at countless gen2's in every color and condition. I found mine after a year and a half of looking. I sold off everything except this little sh*t 4cyl vert foxbody turd, I stripped down my 5 speed mark vii and just started looking and flipping cars in the meantime trying to keep my sanity until i found a low mile black/black or grey/black lsc...i even started considering other combos...but kept looking hard for the darker colored ones..specifically black.

I finally found it in Media, Pennsylvania. It had everything all the way down to the window stickers and documentation, records, etc. It only needed a passenger door handle and rear neon replaced. It was an untouched two owner dealer maintained car. *My* Car. It even came with the stick on seat belt stickers for the windows.....

They were asking 6, but i could only come up with 5. The guy i bought it from paid the $100 to have everything switched over so ate 100 on the cost and i got it for 4900. I could only come up with 5, but i would have paid more towards his asking price if i had it.

Now:

Every dollar is also spent out of love. I know i've spent well over $15k on it including the cost. After the hubswap, wheels/tires, body work just done, windshield, etc it'll be closer to 20K total on it with all the parts sitting around for it. I have a very large stock pile of stuff and i havent even began to touch or acquire anything for the the engine, trans (besides tune and jmod/filter/fluid service) and the front/rear shocks.

The things we do for our cars.
 
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gman be careful promising a close to perfect car for $6000 to someone. you seem like a very nice guy with great intentions. but consumers are fock!ng stupid "Buyers are liars". i don't want you to get screwed. close to perfect could be something totally different between two people. what happens if that guy comes to pick up that $6000 car and he picks it to pieces and refuses to pay you? if you want to build one to sell do just that. build it and then sell the final product... dont sell him a promise. and give him a mark viii with edge. would you sell your personal car for $6000? is it "close to perfect"?
 
zmt325 said:
gman be careful promising a close to perfect car for $6000 to someone. you seem like a very nice guy with great intentions. but consumers are fock!ng stupid "Buyers are liars". i don't want you to get screwed. close to perfect could be something totally different between two people. what happens if that guy comes to pick up that $6000 car and he picks it to pieces and refuses to pay you? if you want to build one to sell do just that. build it and then sell the final product... dont sell him a promise. and give him a mark viii with edge. would you sell your personal car for $6000? is it "close to perfect"?
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I didn't promise anything. I only use the word "Perfect" here. Clearly my idea of "perfect", your idea of "perfect" and every other person on here has their own idea of "perfect" are way different than mine. I only offered a decent Mark with no problems.
 
Everyones definition of perfect should be the same. Perfect by definition is "without flaw".

per·fect/ˈpərfikt/


Noun: The perfect tense.

Verb: Make (something) completely free from faults or defects, or as close to such a condition as possible.
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GMAN said:
Precisely.
Verb: Make (something) completely free from faults or defects, or as close to such a condition as possible.
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It is possible. Just not for $6000.

Definition is definition. Should have said "Guy wants me to make him a pretty nice Mark for $6000". Because with time, money and expertise it is "possible" to make on perfect.
 
LaserSVT said:
It is possible. Just not for $6000.

Definition is definition. Should have said "Guy wants me to make him a pretty nice Mark for $6000". Because with time, money and expertise it is "possible" to make on perfect.
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You have your way I have mine. I say it can be done.
 
GMAN said:
Man I really don't get you.

At any rate, I am done.
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Gee GMAN, did I hurt your feelings? I'm really sorry. Was it me proving the point you cant make a Mark perfect for $6000? Or was it refuting then with your help proving that you cant rebuild a DOHC 4.6 for $600? Or could it have been when I explained what the actual definition of perfect is?


Look GMAN, you know I don't have nothing against you and even like you. Sometimes you say and do stuff that make me and many others here question your thought process.

Much like powder coating and sandblasting calipers without sealing up the pistons and seals and removing the bleeder.


Would you feel better if I said "Hell yeah! You can make a Mark perfect for $6000 and make major bank in profit!" or "Wow, you got the hookup for building an engine for $600" when in fact it wasn't $600 to rebuild and is not even finished?

I was trying to save you some aggravation and loss of money by telling someone you can make a perfect Mark for them for $6000. It would just end up being another thread like on the .org site where some dude is pissed off at you and trying to hunt you down.

While talking about a womans looks "perfect" is subjective but when it comes to an inanimate object with moving parts then perfect is perfect. A door ding is not perfect. A single crack in an airbag (even if its not leaking) is not perfect. A crease in the leather is not perfect.
 
LaserSVT said:
Gee GMAN, did I hurt your feelings? I'm really sorry. Was it me proving the point you cant make a Mark perfect for $6000? Or was it refuting then with your help proving that you cant rebuild a DOHC 4.6 for $600? Or could it have been when I explained what the actual definition of perfect is?


Look GMAN, you know I don't have nothing against you and even like you. Sometimes you say and do stuff that make me and many others here question your thought process.

Much like powder coating and sandblasting calipers without sealing up the pistons and seals and removing the bleeder.


Would you feel better if I said "Hell yeah! You can make a Mark perfect for $6000 and make major bank in profit!" or "Wow, you got the hookup for building an engine for $600" when in fact it wasn't $600 to rebuild and is not even finished?

I was trying to save you some aggravation and loss of money by telling someone you can make a perfect Mark for them for $6000. It would just end up being another thread like on the .org site where some dude is pissed off at you and trying to hunt you down.

While talking about a womans looks "perfect" is subjective but when it comes to an inanimate object with moving parts then perfect is perfect. A door ding is not perfect. A single crack in an airbag (even if its not leaking) is not perfect. A crease in the leather is not perfect.
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Do me a favor from here on out, Please steer clear of any post that I do, and I will do the same with yours. You act like sometimes your the supreme know it all when it comes to all things cars. You don't know me or what I do. I don't have to explain myself to you, because it is pointless. Every project I do is not my first rodeo, and will not be my last.
 
GMAN said:
Do me a favor from here on out, Please steer clear of any post that I do, and I will do the same with yours. You act like sometimes your the supreme know it all when it comes to all things cars. You don't know me or what I do. I don't have to explain myself to you, because it is pointless. Every project I do is not my first rodeo, and will not be my last.
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I do know you, know what you do and know what you do to your cars. Don't come at me like I am some newb or am a person who has not well documented how to do things to these cars. I learned a lot and learned it fast from advice I got on here.

I was trying to help out someone I thought was a friend but good gawd damn you can be a dumb ass sometimes.

Just cause you can turn a few bolts and remove a dash does not mean you have a grasp on problem solving many things on these cars or what good quality work and/or items are.

You go with bottom dollar and that is not the best way to go. Sure you got an engine built for cheap, lets see how long it lasts. Hell it may last forever and it may not. On the same hand don't come in here and bullchit that it only cost $600 for a rebuild when it simply does not.

Don't claim you can have a car painted for $1000 and that its a great job. Sure it looks excellent when fresh but two years down the road it will look like a $1000 paint job.

Its like when you sold the CE parts to Jamie telling him they were all good and they were so bad that all he could do is toss them.

Its like you telling me how good the 93 was that Sapperfire bought from you only to learn the car was a ratted out total POS with virtually no usable parts on it. Damn motor didnt last 3000 miles.... actually I am not sure if it lasted 2000 miles.

Your preception of what is good is a bit skewed.

Don't go claiming I am being negative when I give someone good and proper advice that they are happy with and saves them time and money and also PM me a thanks for the help. You see what you wanna see and for you I am just negative.


I never claimed to know all about anything but I do know these cars and most cars a damn site better then most and try to help others with that knowledge.
I research, ask questions, listen to the answers, do more research and then also learn from trial and error. I know what works and what does not when it comes to the power trains cause I have messed with DOHC 4.6 motors for over a decade. I have torn them down and put them back together. I am not the one here who claimed to do his first rebuild when all I did was drop a crap load of parts at a mechanics shop and said "Here, make.".



You don't like being wrong, fine. You don't like being given correct information, fine. Can lead a horse to water but ya have to kick him in the nuts to make him drink.
 
Good thing Texas is a big state...where is that guy from New York?
 
Some people just have to learn the hard way. No matter what Laser, he is gonna argue tooth and nail! If he says he can do it, let him have at it! Its no sweat off your balls! I think he is WAYYYY under what it's gonna cost but let him use his time and money only to find out it was more money and aggravation than it was worth unless he likes doing things for free. You have only tried giving sound advice which a lot of us consider valuable on this site. Sometimes when people ask opinions, they should have thick skin b/c you might and probably will hear things you don't like! Good luck with your build GMAN. Nothing against you but when you ask people opinions, thats what you will get..good and bad bro!
 
Personally, I like the "bad" opinions and criticism. Those are the ones I learn from.

Let's not go apeshat on the definition of "perfect". It has been defined by some famous dead guy as "something to be striven for, not reached".
Let the thread move on!
 
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