Went from strut masters spring setup to vogtland 1.6" drop springs and not happy!

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drobs5

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Just finished rebuilding my entire front suspension and changing the front and rear springs over from strut master units to Vogtland 1.6" drop springs. Not sure if I did something wrong or what but the car now looks like it's in constant drag launch mode. The rear is low (virtually no clearance between the fender well and tire which I like) and seem REALLY soft (haven't driven it yet). The front has a good 2" between the tire and fender lip. Anyone else had this problem with the vogtland springs? I know they settle some but they aren't going to settle that much and I don't need the rear to settle any lol. A pic would probably show the problem a lot better but there's not enough room to get a pic in my garage and it's cold/rainy outside so I'll get one first chance I get.
 
In the rear I just reused the strutmasters plate at the top of the spring and no isolators (since there weren't any on the car previously). Am I supposed to be using some special perches because there wasn't anything special on the car before? I can get some isolators to lift it back up some I guess. I can't get over how high the front is though. I can barely get one finger between the fender and the tire in the rear but in the front I can practically get four fingers between the fender and tire. I guess I will have to try cutting the springs in the front?
 
For the rear get 2 sets of these. Not sure which perch came with the sm kit but using them on top/bottom have worked fine for me using the solid billet one.


Prothane 6-1709


http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=61709

I don't see why they wouldn't work with the V's, but check the measurements before you buy. That is the least expensive option for getting some extra height back there.
 
Lownslowlsc said:
For the rear get 2 sets of these. Not sure which perch came with the sm kit but using them on top/bottom have worked fine for me using the solid billet one.


Prothane 6-1709


http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=61709

I don't see why they wouldn't work with the V's, but check the measurements before you buy. That is the least expensive option for getting some extra height back there.
Click to expand...

The strut masters kit doesn't come with any perches as far as I can tell. Just comes with some plates that go on the top of the spring to keep it aligned and the bottom of the spring sits in the lower control arm. See Google pic link below for reference.

http://shopping.na1.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=485&c=1247091&h=4102b94c13eab9afa6b4

I think the isolators will fix me up in the rear and I hate to cut new springs but I think that's my only option in the front ???
 
The insulators in the rear should fix your problem. Mmm strut master springs feeling more firm the vogtlands... which is odd. I'm using linear springs in the rear which are around 750-800lb/in and they are only slightly firmer than factory air bags... It makes me curious, are all spring conversions really soft since most of them have spring rates of around 550 as the minimum?

Cutting your springs can cause issues with progressive springs like vogtlands. Honestly if it were me and i really had a issue with it I would cut them without really worrying, just don't over do it. Do try covering the exposed metal of the cut with paint and make sure you cut the tangential side and not the square side.
 
93mkviii said:
The insulators in the rear should fix your problem. Mmm strut master springs feeling more firm the vogtlands... which is odd. I'm using linear springs in the rear which are around 750-800lb/in and they are only slightly firmer than factory air bags... It makes me curious, are all spring conversions really soft since most of them have spring rates of around 550 as the minimum?

Cutting your springs can cause issues with progressive springs like vogtlands. Honestly if it were me and i really had a issue with it I would cut them without really worrying, just don't over do it. Do try covering the exposed metal of the cut with paint and make sure you cut the tangential side and not the square side.
Click to expand...

I dont know that the vogtland springs are softer than the strutmasters springs but they definitely aren't nearly as stiff as I expected them to be. I can still easily bounce the rear of the car up and down.
 
What shocks do you have? Car without shocks will be easy to bounce. With my springs and my shocks at completely soft settings it's actually very easy to bounce around. However if i stiffen the shock it does not bounce. The bounce is more likely from the shocks... if you have a lot of nose dive during braking, that might be springs.
 
Who knows in the rear. Worn out stock shocks most likely. Those are on the list to be replaced eventually.
 
I have 1" vogtland springs and can be of help.

The problem you're having is that vogtland's are made for a Thunderbird which have coil spring perches. Thunderbirds also have spring isolators top and bottom. The perches aren't very high 1/4 to 3/8 and the isolators add height too and it's not always proportionate, you don't know till you get the car back on the ground. The front end is soo high because the rear is dropped.

I've played with my setup a lot and what you really want is the car to be dead level with these springs. If one side is higher then the other it's going to overtax the shocks and it will bounce. You also want the best shocks you can find. Tokicos are working for me. I had KYB's and the ride was awful.

I would suggest getting the cobra polyurethane isolators for the top and bottom. These will add an inch or so to the rear and level the front.

Another thing to keep in mind is these springs are progressive rate so so how the weight is distributed makes a big difference. Because they compress easily at first then about double in spring rate at full compression.

Yes these springs will settle and it takes a while because they are strong.
 
opalescent 96 said:
I have 1" vogtland springs and can be of help.

The problem you're having is that vogtland's are made for a Thunderbird which have coil spring perches. Thunderbirds also have spring isolators top and bottom. The perches aren't very high 1/4 to 3/8 and the isolators add height too and it's not always proportionate, you don't know till you get the car back on the ground. The front end is soo high because the rear is dropped.

I've played with my setup a lot and what you really want is the car to be dead level with these springs. If one side is higher then the other it's going to overtax the shocks and it will bounce. You also want the best shocks you can find. Tokicos are working for me. I had KYB's and the ride was awful.

I would suggest getting the cobra polyurethane isolators for the top and bottom. These will add an inch or so to the rear and level the front.

Another thing to keep in mind is these springs are progressive rate so so how the weight is distributed makes a big difference. Because they compress easily at first then about double in spring rate at full compression.

Yes these springs will settle and it takes a while because they are strong.
Click to expand...

I have ordered the poly isolators for the top and bottom. I will install them once they get here but I really don't see that leveling the car .... hope I'm wrong! I will try that before resorting to cutting the front springs as I really shouldn't have to cut anything I don't think.

I've looked at the perches on super coupe performance and they are pround of those things. I'm really surprised that no one makes something adjustable for this (like something shown in the pic below).

p0000230.jpg

p0000230.jpg
 
you shouldn't have to cut your front springs. There are other methods to drop the front and still retain the ride quality.
 
^ i thought the same, but i bought a car with cut springs, and the ride is still
extremely comfy.... so dont let "cut springs" have you assume the ride is going
to be like a wooden wagon.
 
97 Octane said:
you shouldn't have to cut your front springs. There are other methods to drop the front and still retain the ride quality.
Click to expand...

I agree cutting the springs will be my last resort although I think they will be fine for me. What are the other options?
 
you need perches. or isolators. or something.
the birds have them built in to their lower control arm. the mark does not.

also the Vogtlands are a progressive spring.
they start off on the soft end and move towards the firm end as they compress.

and having blown shocks is really hurting you.
 
Got home in time to back the car out of the garage and snap a couple pics. My driveway is a bit sloped so the pic is just a little misleading but look at that tuck! Lol
20150112_173316_zpszhfrezz4.jpg


The other side
20150112_173401_zpspce4fqef.jpg
 
I think you'll be fine with the cobra isolators. They add a lot of ride height. It should level the car right out. New shocks and shock mounts will most likely help add a little height too. Once the back of the car goes up the car will level out.

You don't want to cut the front. The shocks that are available for these cars is limited. The lower you make the car, the weaker the shocks perform. The cheap shocks will feel like they need to be replaced right out of the box with these springs. You need a strong shock to dampen these springs. Otherwise it's going to bounce and float a lot. What are you running for shocks anyway?
 
opalescent 96 said:
I think you'll be fine with the cobra isolators. They add a lot of ride height. It should level the car right out. New shocks and shock mounts will most likely help add a little height too. Once the back of the car goes up the car will level out.

You don't want to cut the front. The shocks that are available for these cars is limited. The lower you make the car, the weaker the shocks perform. The cheap shocks will feel like they need to be replaced right out of the box with these springs. You need a strong shock to dampen these springs. Otherwise it's going to bounce and float a lot. What are you running for shocks anyway?
Click to expand...

Well the front struts are just what came with the strut masters setup. I have no clue what's on the rear. I plan to replace the rears at a minimum. What's the preferred setup for the rear and what all accessory pieces do I need to install them?

Question for ya ... is there a particular way the rear springs are supposed to be installed? flat side up or down? writing to the front or back? or does that even matter?
 
I don't think you'll be happy with those shocks at all. But I guess you can try it. Tokicos are really your only option, they are the sportiest shock that are still somewhat available. They are pricey too about 350 for a set of four. You should buy the set of four because finding just the fronts is next to impossible.

The tighter coils of the spring go to the body side. I don't think vogtlands have flat sides. I believe the pigtails can be installed in any orientation but I would make them the same on both sides

You should do some research about the rear shock mounts to run Thunderbird shocks. You can either modify stock Mark mounts or buy aftermarket.
 
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